Topic started by naga (@ 209.47.143.226) on Mon Mar 18 15:22:53 EST 2002.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
Even since ARR entered into the cine field in 1992 (Was Roja released in 1991 or 92?), 2 worse things have happenned:
1.He was the one who introduced the use of drum machine (samplers) just to be different from IR and other MDs at that time. He wanted to be different to stay in the field and so created songs with a heave influence of western instruments. Being a 'sound engineer' he managed to be successful and now everybody is following him and calling it the 'trend'. He replaced the 'beauty of orchestration' with this new tread.. No catchy tunes, not so great melodies but just rythm... that's the secret of success...and he knew that. Our youngsters fell for it bcos it was different for them. All of us know that majority of young boys and girls listen to western music just for the rythm and for the quality of sound. They can't even understand the meaning of song and of course they don't need to... infact most of the engilsh songs have no lyrical value... That's exactly what ARR wanted to do... why listen to english beats when I can reproduce the same in tamil movies ???! Right...and that's what he did.. very clever and for this he didn't need to have carnatic music knowledge.. He started violating all the ragas, mixing and matching.. did everything.. (ennavae adi ennavale - a good example of killing 'kedharam' -- funny thing is that unni krishnan got national award for that song)...
It's 10 years now and ARR is still in the industry..charging crores of rupees for each movie, made 100 times the money that IR, MSV have made in their career with genuine music...
Where are we going with this 'tread'...... all songs sound the same...Any song can fit into any movie and for any situation...
2. And the second worst thing that has happened is 'tamizh kolai'. After ARR, now anybody can sing.. no need to know the language. Just sing and ARR will adjust it while recording.. what a shame to 'tamizh mozhi'. ARR is the one who started it. Can anyone deny that? Before that singers had some respect. Just listen to SPB, N.Vasudevan, TMS for their 'tamizh ucharippu'. No wonder why MSV and IR kept on giving using them..
Well I do appreaciate that ARR introduced a lot of new singers but how many can speak 'tamizh'. Can ARR justify what he has done to TFM ?
MSV, KVM and IR composed music for the song. ARR composes song for the music and that's the difference. And that's why we can't listen to any new songs after few months... one bad song will replace another bad song..
If this trend goes for another few more years... 'tamizh mozhi' will find a place in the history...
These are some of the 'tamil kolai seidha padalgal'...
chikku bukky raile.. (ARR)
andha arabi kadaloram (ARR)
poovukku porandha nalu (praveen mani) -- only God can help
all songs in parthale paravasam (ARR)
and a lot more... I don't remember them all..
Can anyone add such songs here??
please note that I do like ARR for many good reasons but I cannot forgive him for the above two bad things he did, knowingly or unknowingly to the TFM...
Responses:
- Old responses
- From: ROTFL (@ 210.186.51.119)
on: Thu Mar 21 10:19:36 EST 2002
:)
- From: WhyNot (@ 203.24.100.132)
on: Thu Mar 21 10:20:04 EST 2002
"When did this slow slide into fuzzy Tamizh come about? And what/who facilitated it - or made it acceptable"
Naaz, an interesting post tat reminds me of several good ole threads. Jus two questions.
1)Do u agree wit naga that ARR holds the sole responsibility for the deterioration of Tamil in the tfm.
2)Do u agree tat society in general (not jus tfm) is experiencing this downslide in tamil. And if u do, do u agree tat this trend in tfm is actually reflecting this change in society? Or do u believe tat the deterioration of lyrics and pronounciation in tfm is what's influencing people into forgetting their language.
- From: magix (@ 203.199.231.102)
on: Thu Mar 21 10:20:23 EST 2002
we know Raghu ;)
- From: Raghu (@ 212.2.14.241)
on: Thu Mar 21 10:24:07 EST 2002
it appears ROTFL,Whynot, Magix are all HCARRF,
am I right?
- From: ROTFL (@ 210.186.51.119)
on: Thu Mar 21 10:26:26 EST 2002
no Raghu.
We are just sensible people. :)
- From: magix (@ 203.199.231.102)
on: Thu Mar 21 10:26:52 EST 2002
ne OTHER doubt?? ;)
- From: ROTFL (@ 210.186.51.119)
on: Thu Mar 21 10:27:38 EST 2002
There is no such thing as HCARRF as well as HCMSVF.
HCIRFs have the monopoly on this. :)
- From: magix (@ 203.199.231.102)
on: Thu Mar 21 10:28:35 EST 2002
ROTFL.. ithuthaane..
- From: Raghu (@ 212.2.14.241)
on: Thu Mar 21 10:34:04 EST 2002
ROTFL;
u c, when u become a HCF of a person, u become ignorant of others talents.
am I right?
- From: Sam (@ 132.235.18.15)
on: Thu Mar 21 10:37:45 EST 2002
Naaz, what I meant by saying that I am not a tamilian , and it doesnt matter if its the right or wrong pronunciation is that I am not an authority to judge good or bad tamil, all I am botherd with is the music, cos i don understand the words. And I do understand that people like u find it jarring to hear a bad pronunciation, I don find fault with that. Sorry if my posting sounded the other way.
What I tried to say in that posting is, it doesnt look logical to blame one single guy. And Naga implies that others doing this wrong is because of this single guy, which I find to be totally absurd. IR's case of having mis pronunciation is becos of ARR, as Naga says. Doesnt that sound lame? Is it like good things in others songs are becos of them, and bad things are becos of ARR? And if thats true, what abt their own individual commitments or inclinations? Do they have to follow what ARR does?
I do respect ur language, and ur love for it, infact most of my friends here are tamilians, and I do learn tamil from them. I didnt mean to offend ur language sentiments, but putting the blame squarely on ARR is what irked me, and thats what I tried to say.
And by the way, whats TWIST? A musical genre? Cud u tell me abt that? Of course i get what u say by hinterland theemangu :-)
- From: ROTFL (@ 210.186.51.119)
on: Thu Mar 21 10:38:24 EST 2002
... or rather, you don't want to recognise others' talents. or if you did, you think that you are being magnanimous. Like in "I am a HCIRF but I think that athisaya thirumanam was the best song of the year." :)
- From: Raghu (@ 212.2.14.241)
on: Thu Mar 21 10:40:31 EST 2002
ROTFL;
Excatly, That's why there are SO MANY ARR Vs IR threads, this thread is full of it?
- From: Raghu (@ 212.2.14.241)
on: Thu Mar 21 10:42:08 EST 2002
I meant, this forum is full of it!
- From: ROTFL (@ 210.186.51.119)
on: Thu Mar 21 10:43:24 EST 2002
Ah! You've seen the light. :)
- From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63)
on: Thu Mar 21 12:00:49 EST 2002
For an example of the "twist" (or swing) music in Indian cinema pls listen to this song (among others)from the film Gumnaam:
"Jaan Pehchchaan Ho, Jeena Aasaan Ho" by Mohd.Rafi (the music was by Shankar-Jaikishen, I think, although I could be mistaken).
Sam: for your info I am not a "native" tamizhian myself. My mother-tongue is Urdu. I spent a better part of my childhood and adolescence in Tamil Nadu.
"Trends" always lead to Clones. ARR is a harbinger of many interesting things in Indian Film Music. However, one cannot say that he has paid as much attention to Tamizh or Tamizh Singing in his compositions (esp. when they are sung by non-tamizhs) and has relied on just his genius and inspiration to gloss over these TWO essential parts of Film Music. To ask him - and other similar clonish MDs - to pay just the same attention to words and voice (that they do to their masterful compositions) is not really asking for the extraordinary. In fact, quite the contrary: Tamizhs want ORDINARY tamizh in their songs. It is the manufactured (and "fashionable") and mangled "Tamizh" that sounds extraordinary - and alien to many tamizhars.
Note: I am referring to "Tamizhs" as regionally identified by Tamil Nadu and its inhabitants. I am not referring to the "other" tamizhs (Malaysian, Singaporean, Sri Lankan and Other Immigrant populations here) - as those "tamizhs" have their own history of assimilation and articulation. I am referring to Tamizh of and from the source - Tamil Nadu.
- From: ROTFL (@ 210.186.60.166)
on: Fri Mar 22 09:41:52 EST 2002
Naaz
What are you trying to do here?
In the guise of HCIRF, are you trying split the Tamils?
The Tamils outside India didn't jump from the sky; they originate from India too.
And if you think that Tamils outside India don't care for their language, you are in for a mega surprise.
- From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63)
on: Fri Mar 22 10:06:29 EST 2002
ROTFL - don't be an idiot. Read my post again. Not that it will help, judging by your other posts in this forum it is evident that you are incapable of intelligent engagement.
- From: ROTFL (@ 210.186.60.166)
on: Fri Mar 22 10:23:29 EST 2002
It does not pay to be civil. :(
Look here moronic Naaz!
In spite of your highly inflammable posting, I contained myself, but it looks like you deserve to be treated like a low life that you are.
1. Tamizhs want ORDINARY tamizh in their songs.
2. I am referring to "Tamizhs" as regionally identified by Tamil Nadu and its inhabitants.
What does one surmise from these statements? Unless you didn'r mean it that way. In which case, go and learn better ways to express yourself instead of calling people names.
- From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63)
on: Fri Mar 22 11:02:49 EST 2002
What you surmise from those statements is also a statement about you, ROFTL.
Ordinary Tamizh is one which the "native" can identify as her/his own - that's called "nativity."
Let me give you another corollary:
French spoken in France is a different French from the French spoken in Quebec or Vietnam. This is because the History of French (or English, or Tamizh) outside of its place of ORIGIN has other factors which influence it: immigration, intonation, inflection/diction/usage which retains specific aspects of that formation of the "community" outside of the source or origins. Similarly, Tamizh as spoken and identified by the inhabitants of Tamil Nadu is significantly different than Tamizh spoken in Colombo or Brisbane or Toronto by the immigrant community. It is Tamizh, but it is not the Tamizh of Tamizh Cinema
and Music as PRODUCED and RECORDED in Tamil Nadu (where ARR and IR and MSV and HJ and YSR and....live! Got that??)
I hope you get this crucial distinction.
Hence:
The accusation that I am trying to split Tamizhars is ridiculous. Asking people to recognise the different trajectories, history and growth of the same language inside and outside of its landscape is not
an act of separation. It is about specificity. And it is true for any language.
If you can wrap this little detail around your head, perhaps you will see that my post was about the "alienation" Tamizhars from Tamil Nadu feel about their language and its current usage in TFM. That is the big Lament of this Discussion Thread (just a reminder, ROFTL.)
And about my abilities to express myself: Other posters here can place your statements next to mine, and it will be clear who has a problem not only with expression, but with UNDERSTANDING a clear analysis.
(PS: Being a Moron and a Low-Life is still a notch lower than being a congenital Idiot. Agree? :-))
- From: ROTFL (@ 210.186.60.166)
on: Fri Mar 22 11:20:24 EST 2002
Agreed whole-heartedly.
You ARE a notch lower than I! :)
OK Naaz, I excuse you since your mother tongue is not Tamil.
I am wondering whether I should give you a history lesson on Tamils world wide. But on second thoughts, go and find out yourself. I am not one to write long postings. :)
Suffice to say that your example is invalid. French spoken in Vietnam may be different from French in France, but do not forget that Vietnamese are not French!
Whereas Tamils in Malaysia, Singapore, etc are Tamils who migrated a few decades ago.
And for your information (a shocking revelation to you actually), the Tamil spoken in these countries are no different from the Tamil of IR, ARR and HJ. :)
Srilanka is a different matter altogether, but you got to do your homework, I ain't gonna do it for you. :)
Have you ever wondered why Tamil patriotism is so different from any other languages?
Sorry mate, but you will never be able to understand it in this lifetime. :)
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