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Is IR's quality now indeed less than his yesteryears?

Topic started by SR Kaushik (@ ntws229.cs.wisc.edu) on Tue Oct 13 22:30:43 EDT 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Many people opine that the IR of the 80s was best and that his standard now is a little lesser. I do not agree. While I do feel that his quality in the early 90s was a bit down, after the advent of ARR, he is back to his old form, although his style has changed. IMO, (all songs of) Guru, (some songs of) Kaliyoonjalu, Yatra mozhi, Avatharam, Nammoora Mandaara Hoove are as good as his best.

I can cite a few reasons why so many people feel IR now is not as good as IR of the 80s:

1. Nostalgia.
2. An explanation for his relative lack of commercial success now.
3. We have all listened to so much music that we are used to it, and hence the charm that music once used to have is reduced. Or rather, let me put it this way - one's musical appreciation becomes more intellectual than emotional.

I think this would be an interesting topic to discuss.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Shashi (@ eed02990.mayo.edu) on: Thu Oct 22 13:28:46 EDT 1998
  
  Dear Shankar
  
  Although your points are valid, a song need not necessarily potray just the thoughts/feelings of the person singing. Yes, the lyrics and the melody itself should potray the singers mood but the interludes/BGM (whatever you want to call it) should also represent the situation that is happening around. By your posting you say that in Devasangeetham the interludes fit the things happening in the background. I agree, but this background IMO should have been lighter than the interlude score for Thathaaram.
  
  Quite frankly what is the mood of the singer during Devasangeetham? It is longing to meet her loved one--isnt it? Does the melody fit? My answer is--100%perfect fit. What is the background? People are trying to prevent a meeting between the two loved ones--isnt it? For this situation the amount of seriousness in the music is way too high IMO.
  
  Lets analyze Thathaaram now. Does the melody fit? Again 100% fit, because the person/chorus who are singing, are trying to please the sound goddess. Do they show the guy about to be sacrificed? Yes and they also show the terror on his face too. Then atleast the interludes at those times should reflect those emotions IMO.
  
  I agree all this discussion is very subjective. But as a Raja fan I can only say that he has done this before and even in this movie(Devasangeetham), and my question is how come he missed Thathaaram? And BTW during Thathaaram Mohanlal was not going to be the victim as you point out. I think it was the guy who sings Devasangeetham who was to be sacrificed and Mohanlal eventually saves him.
  
  I am sorry to interupt the discussion with my reply but I just had to do it.
  
  
• From: shankar (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Fri Oct 23 01:00:16 EDT 1998
  
  Dear sashi,
  What i felt about thatharam was that, the interludes (by BGM i meant the BGM of the movie and not the interludes) also were the part of the scene as they show the villagers playing variety of instruments.U can't expect that to reflect the character's mood.
  
  
• From: irfan (@ ) on: Fri Jul 13 02:55:58 EDT 2001
  
  yes indeed it has. Look at the pathetic hey raam songs. IR after 1985 was awful.
  I also see nothing great in Sindhubhairavi at all as long back as 1986.
  
  
• From: Kupps (@ atlwebproxy1.core.hp.com) on: Fri Jul 13 03:07:45 EDT 2001
  
  infact...why don't we say
  IR after 1976 is awful and worst?
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.1.130) on: Fri Jul 13 04:34:24 EDT 2001
  
  IR Fan.....you have a point there...
  
  1985 was the year when IR should have broadened his musical listening to modern pop...that touch was lacking...if he had done that...what ARR had done in 1993 we would have seen it in 1987/88 maybe even a more richer version of ARR's muic with the highest fusion of Tamil folk, Western classical and modern pop with didgitl synth to boot !
  
  
• From: Kupps (@ atlwebproxy1.core.hp.com) on: Fri Jul 13 06:27:26 EDT 2001
  
  cosmician
  
  your point is IR should have experimented in new sounds and digitized version of it during late 80s itself. is that right?
  
  why should he? is sound (and digitising) the only aspect of music to be experimented with? infact during late 80s IR experimented in many other aspects which, i believe, is discussed in many thread here by pundits. It is equivalent to say why MSV did not experiment after late 60s. Now being in 1980s an ex-rasika of MSV should not say that "MSV should have experimented a lot in WCM and orchestration stuff in his music; infact he had shown it in some of his films like pudhiya paravai". I think he must have done many in his "liked area" like tunes, melody etc.
  
  Lack of knowledge or Stagnation, of a MD is, he not doing experiments at all, atleast in his liked/strong area. Stagnation or Lack of Knowledge for a MD does not mean what he has not touched that WE believe he as should have. If that is the case i think we would not have got MSVs, IRs, ARRs, everything would have done by their predecessor greats like GR, KVM.
  
  This belief of me(that IR tried a lot even after early 80s) made me to right like that.
  
  
• From: Kupps (@ atlwebproxy1.core.hp.com) on: Fri Jul 13 06:31:18 EDT 2001
  
  sorry a typo
  
  This belief of me(that IR tried a lot even after early 80s) made me to right like that.
  
  Read it as
  
  This belief of me(that IR tried a lot even after early 80s) made me to write like that.
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.1.130) on: Fri Jul 13 08:16:09 EDT 2001
  
  >>> is sound (and digitising) the only aspect of music to be experimented with? infact during late 80s IR experimented in many other aspects which, i believe, is discussed in many thread here by pundits.<<<
  
  Kupps..my point is that IR should also have included the digital realm in his experimentations...I didn't mean that should have been his only focus. This would have kept his music ahead of the times. Though intellectually the fusion and experimentation he has achieved in many of his works will definitely stand the test of time.
  
  
• From: Kupps (@ atlwebproxy1.core.hp.com) on: Fri Jul 13 10:06:45 EDT 2001
  
  yes cosmician
  
  i too agree with your wish, infact its my wish also, he could have experimented in that area too.
  
  now coming to the point, you agree that IR indeed had experimented a few things(atleast)successfully even after 86. Given such a situation how can we say that IR's music quality reduced than what it used to be before 86 - as claimed by irfan?
  
  Its could be because of after 86 or so, many a Naatupura films were pictured with IR's music amongst many were hit and you unknowingly have been listening to them repetitively. But equal number of other good movies came with novel music from IR(could be 100+ naattupura films and 100+ other films).
  
  That is why i was not with the point "IR music was lesser in quality after 85".
  
  
• From: krishna (@ mailserver01.sb.com) on: Fri Jul 13 12:08:07 EDT 2001
  
  I also think that IR's music after 1986 has been excellent.
  
  I am just listing some of the movies after 1986: Punnagai Mannan, Vikram, Mouna Raggam, Kadalora Kavidhaigal, Dharma Pathini, Anand, Enga Ooru Pattukaran, Nayagan, Manadhil Urudhi Vendum, Nayagan, Paadu Nilave, Poovizhi Vasalile, Rettai Vaal Kuruvi, Theerthakaraiyinile, Velaikaran, Agin Natchathiram, En Bommukutti Ammavukku, Sathya, En Jeevan Paduthu, Solla Thudikuthu Manusu, Shenbagame Shenbagame, Poonthotta Kavalkaran, Unnal Mudiyum Thanmbi, Soora Samharam, Abborva Sagotharargal, Karagattakaran, Mapillai, Rajadhi Raja, Siva, Vetri Vizha, Varusham 16, Geethanjali/Idhayathai Thirudathe, Anjali, Arangetra Veali, En Uyir Thozhan, Keladi Kanmani, Kizhakku Vaasal, Mannan, Micahel Madhana Kamaraajan, My dear Marthandan, Panakaaran, Pudhu Pattu, Raaja Kaya Vecha, Chinna Thambi, Dhalapathi, Dharmadurai, Guna, Eeraman Rojave, Gopura Vasalile, Idhayam, Pudhu Nellu Pudhu Nathu, Athma, Aranmanai Kili, Kalignan, Marupadiyum, Ponnumani, Sembaruthi, Meera, Nadadi Thendral, Sinagra Velan, Devar Magan, Vanna Vanna Pookal, Chinna Gownder, Ejaman, Valli, Uzhaippali, Kattalai, Walter Vetrivel, Veera, Mahanadhi, Pudhu patti Ponnuthayee, Rajakumaran. Kattumarakaaran, Oru Oorile oru Rajakumari, Naatu pura Pattu, Avatharam, Pattu Paada Vaa, Chinna Vathiyar, Kolangal, Chandralekha, Poovarasan, Poomani, Siraichalai, Poonjaolai, Raman Abdullah, Devadhai, Guru, Yathra Mozhi, Nammora Handhara Hoove, Kadhalukku Mariyadhai, Annan, Poonthottam, Nilave Mugam Kattu, Kaakai Chriraginile, Hey Ram, Bharathi, Friends, Kadhal Jaathi.....+ How to Name it, Nothing But Wind, India 24 Hours, Rajavin Ramanamalai.....
  
  If this is the output of a man on decline and lack of creativity, I wish I had 1/10 th of this quality of output during my declining years...My point is in my opinion, Raja has excelled the same way both pre-post 1986 till date...
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.231) on: Fri Jul 13 12:35:47 EDT 2001
  
  krishna,
  
  A random pick-Chinna Vathiyar.
  
  What are the excellent songs in this movie?
  Do you mean the song with the dialogue "kanmaniye kanmaniye..." is an excellent song?
  
  
• From: krishna (@ mailserver01.sb.com) on: Fri Jul 13 12:59:47 EDT 2001
  
  IMO, yes
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.231) on: Fri Jul 13 13:02:41 EDT 2001
  
  krishna,
  
  Second pick-kattalai
  
  I didn't find any songs to appreciate in that movie.
  Am I the only one lacking some kind of aesthetic sense to appreciate the songs in this movie?
  
  
• From: Trend (@ dev.hrchally.com) on: Fri Jul 13 13:21:52 EDT 2001
  
  krishna,
  
  Oh really?!What abt the other songs
  1.Athai Magal Rathinamey
  2.Indha padukkaiyele
  3.Love ....
  4.vatta pandhu
  
  If you really say these songs are excellent(nothing short of it) then really I think I have a serious problem.
  
  
• From: Common Friend (@ 203.197.141.187) on: Fri Jul 13 13:42:08 EDT 2001
  
  CV has average songs. I see one song with a football in our local cable tv once in a while. Never mind to concentrate. There was nothing in that song . Not even ranjitha.
  
  
• From: Pozhudhu pogadhavan (@ 107.norcross-09rh15rt.ga.dial-access.att.net) on: Fri Jul 13 14:26:47 EDT 2001
  
  Trend,
  
  Still You could remember all those songs from this utter flop movie, that is IR's music.
  
  
• From: Vijay Venkatram J (@ 202.54.33.170) on: Fri Jul 13 14:35:34 EDT 2001
  
  Krishna,
  
  A great list compiled by you!
  
  Fantastic!
  
  Maestro's Fans Come To:
  http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/maestroilaiyaraajafansclub
  
  
• From: S T S (@ c1319060-a.stcla1.sfba.home.com) on: Fri Jul 13 17:10:21 EDT 2001
  
  Common Friend,
  
  CV has average songs. I see one song with a football in our local cable tv once in a while. Never mind to concentrate. There was nothing in that song . Not even ranjitha
  
  What you mean by not even Ranjitha?
  
  

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