Home   Forum   Wiki   Notes   Register   FAQ   Sitemap   About Us   Contact Us  

Is IR's quality now indeed less than his yesteryears?

Topic started by SR Kaushik (@ ntws229.cs.wisc.edu) on Tue Oct 13 22:30:43 EDT 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Many people opine that the IR of the 80s was best and that his standard now is a little lesser. I do not agree. While I do feel that his quality in the early 90s was a bit down, after the advent of ARR, he is back to his old form, although his style has changed. IMO, (all songs of) Guru, (some songs of) Kaliyoonjalu, Yatra mozhi, Avatharam, Nammoora Mandaara Hoove are as good as his best.

I can cite a few reasons why so many people feel IR now is not as good as IR of the 80s:

1. Nostalgia.
2. An explanation for his relative lack of commercial success now.
3. We have all listened to so much music that we are used to it, and hence the charm that music once used to have is reduced. Or rather, let me put it this way - one's musical appreciation becomes more intellectual than emotional.

I think this would be an interesting topic to discuss.

---

Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.246) on: Tue Oct 20 16:56:23 EDT 1998
  
  SHASHI,
  who sings minnaram in the film ?
  
  
• From: Shashi (@ eed02990.mayo.edu) on: Tue Oct 20 17:19:27 EDT 1998
  
  Hi vijay
  
  Very interesting question. Frankly a nobody in the film. Just a cute dame singing on the way side and Mohanlal happens to notice her. I think it is just to emphasize the point that the village/place in which the story happens is a nice little place full of bounty and blessed by nature; happy people living in religious harmony at the start of the story.
  
  
• From: shankar (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Wed Oct 21 03:59:11 EDT 1998
  
  Sashi,
  The song is sung by the fiancee' of Mohanlal. She gets killed in the movie during the riots which turns mohanlal a terrorist.
  
  
• From: shankar (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Wed Oct 21 04:21:46 EDT 1998
  
  Sashi,
  GURU ,IMO is NOT a mediocre movie.
  The beauty of the whole movie is that U 'll start appreciating the movie in the last 15 Mts. Till then it'll look like a vittalacharya movie. Only after U realise that Mohanlal was under hallucination and it was a drama played by the GURU to make mohanlal realise his fault, U'll start appreciate the movie and get the message of the movie.
  
  regarding thatharam mozhiyamma, my opinion again differs from urs.
  Though that number is a narabali song, the purpose of the song is to satisfy the sound goddess worshipped by the people of that fictitious village. That's the reason why U have a lot of instruments and a pleasing melody in that song.
  
  The BGM of the movie was OUT OF THE WORLD. Esp when the avalanche happens, when nasser is taken for narabali and when the princess and the singer try to escape with the help of Mohanlal and those scenes when riots happen.
  The title music still lingers in my mind.
  U can't just write off the BGM saying it's not IRish.
  
  The movie should be watched in a cinema hall with DTS tp enjoy it fully.
  
  
• From: shankar (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Wed Oct 21 04:25:28 EDT 1998
  
  read "U'll start appreciate" as "U'll start appreciating"
  sorry for the typo.
  
  
• From: Viswa (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Wed Oct 21 04:28:27 EDT 1998
  
  Shashi,
  No, I think the lady in the film is shown as Mohanlal's fiancee. (That her role ends with the song, is of course, another matter !) In fact, there is a scene in the film earlier, where there is talk of marriage between the two. Also in the song, she is shown to be thinking of Mohanlal during the interludes...
  
  
• From: Viswa (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Wed Oct 21 04:31:40 EDT 1998
  
  Shankar,
  I'm sorry ... I did'nt see your posting above ! My page had'nt been refreshed for a while, I guess !
  
  
• From: Viswa (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Wed Oct 21 04:41:26 EDT 1998
  
  The first half of "Guru" moves pretty fast, with a lot of action (and at times a little disjoint too !) Most of the scenes are filled with arguments, fights, etc., portraying Mohanlal's character as that of an emotional, hyperactive youth, who is strongly against communal divisions at first, but turns against Muslims later after his family is destroyed in the riots ! MinnAram mAnathu figures between these two stages in the first half ...
  
  
• From: Shashi (@ eed02990.mayo.edu) on: Wed Oct 21 12:47:25 EDT 1998
  
  Dear Shankar and Viswa
  
  I did not want to give away the whole story of Guru. Although there could have been a mention of the girl who sings Minnaram in the movie to be Mohanlal's fiancee, I did notice any conversations or any kind of interactions at a personal level between the two. Because this relationship was not potrayed well (another drawback of the movie) it becomes difficult to assimilate the vengence Mohanlal develops, although I agree the killing of his family and friends is enough to push one towards revenge.
  
  I saw the whole movie including the last 15mins. I knew all along that Mohanlal is under hallucination and could even guess why they were showing this 'vittalacharya' type scenes. May be because I am interested in philosophy and metaphysics the movie appeared to be a little too childish to me. Finally I am not saying that there was no moral or message in the movie but I did not see any great reason for its rave reviews. I still think it is just a SNDP propaganda movie.
  
  Regarding the BGM you may be right. As I mentioned before I had a lousy print and did say in my posting that I could not evaluate it well. I would still like to say that nothing caught my ear as a brilliant BGM peice and that is what I meant when I said it wasn't IRish. May be I was expecting too much because the songs were so good.
  
  Finally about Thathaaram I would still stick to my previous posting. I agree that the narabali is to please the sound goddess and hence the pleasing melody but at the same time you must realize that a life is at stake. Hence my comment about interludes which should have more serious. Why is the interludes of Devasangeetham more serious than Thathaaram? The situation during Devasangeetham though concerning is not as life threatening as with Thathaaram, isnt it? IMO it would have added so much more to the song if some heavier themes had been used during Thathaaram instead of Devasangeetham.
  
  Also thanks Viswa for agreeing that sometimes the first half was a little disjointed.
  
  
• From: Shashi (@ eed02990.mayo.edu) on: Wed Oct 21 12:59:50 EDT 1998
  
  Just a correction; My posting should read "I did NOT notice any conversations or any kind of interactions at a personal level between the two.
  
  
  
• From: Ravi (@ envy.cs.umass.edu) on: Wed Oct 21 13:44:14 EDT 1998
  
  hey hey... you folks are discussing story lines here.. this forum is fo music alone. That too Tamil Film Music. EthO IR paattu pOttu iukkarEnnu Guru paththi pEsa vitta, ippa padaththa pathiyum pEsa aarambichuttenga. nna Viswa ellaam unnaalathaan. :-). I suggest that you shift base to the Hub to continue discussions there. Malayalam films-kku nnu ou thread aarambichchu discuss pannunga venumna.
  
  
• From: Ravi (@ envy.cs.umass.edu) on: Wed Oct 21 13:52:18 EDT 1998
  
  Shankar, Shashi: Don't be put off by the tone of the above post. It was aimed at Viswa. Sorry if it offends you in any way.
  
  
• From: shankar (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Thu Oct 22 00:27:13 EDT 1998
  
  Ravi,
  neenga unga asthrangaLa evunga viswa mEla , nAnga kaNdukkavE illai .... :-)))
  
  Sashi,
  I beg to differ from ur view point.Devasangeetham was serious bcos the person who is singing the song is in a sorrowful mood and hence the tune is done that way and the BGM gives a great support to the things that happen during the interludes.whereas thatharam is sung NOT by mohanlal (who's the gonna-be victim) but by the person who's gonna kill him.His intention is to satisfy the sound goddess and the song is not meant to show the feelings of Mohanlal.
  The difference betn BGM and a song (leaving the interludes of some)is that BGM gives life to the scenes /events happening in the movie and the songs if sung by characters depict their mood. There is no question of bringing the serious mood to thatharam bcos it in no way depicts the mood of the victim.
  
  
• From: Viswa (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Thu Oct 22 01:28:13 EDT 1998
  
  Dai Ravi, inna meratre ?! :-)))) (Ennai offend senjadhunaa parava illaiya ?)
  
  Ok guys, coming back to the topic... What is it by the way ? Ah, quality of IR's music today as against that earlier... ! Idhai patthi pEsa vENdAmE nu nenaichEn, seri risk eduppOmE nu mudivu paNNittEn !
  
  IMO, IR's music has definitely undergone a transition since that of the early and mid-80s. In fact, I'm of the opinion that there was a sharp change in early 1987 - I dunno if any of you have felt it ! (I even started a thread "IR before and after 1987, that met with a tepid response). Acc. to me, the differences between IR of then and the IR of now are :
  
  1. The orchestration in (almost) all the songs in the pre-87 would be water-tight (meaning - extremely cohesive, symmetrical - as though they were saying a story of their own). Whereas, after this period, there were a good number of them that seemed very contrived and short (as though there were composed with a bit of strain). The spontaneity seemed to have reduced...
  
  2. I could'nt help feeling that IR was beginning to use standard tunes for some standard situations. For eg., a situation where lovers were craving for each other led to songs like "Vaaraayo Vaanmathi" (Pagal Nilavu), "Vaa Vaa Anbe" (Saadhanai), "O Priya Priya" (IT), etc., which sounded rather similar..
  
  Similarly, the "oru maadhiri" yaana situations had "Velli kizhamai" (Siva), "Thanniyila nananjaa" (Keladi kanmani"), etc. type of songs...
  
  3. Earlier, the quality of the songs were good irrespective of the movie's quality. You had some terrific songs for some lousy movies, and for some lousy picturizations. But now, we're talking about movies like "Guru" having to inspire IR into producing good tunes. So, the inspiration is not coming from within today (the movie needs to give it), while then there was inspiration (whether the movie was good or not !)
  
  4. The use of more synth in melodious songs like "Ennai thaalaatta varuvaalo" kind of instances are very common today, while the orchestration seemed better suited to the nature of the song then.
  
  Well, I can go on and on (until Ravi cries "STOP !" ), but I thought I'd share some of my feelings on this in as best a way in words as possible...
  
  Guys, your comments on this are most welcome !
  
  
• From: shankar (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Thu Oct 22 04:51:56 EDT 1998
  
  Viswa,
  Good one!!
  
  BUT............
  The reason why in those days songs were great irrespective of the quality has the "survival" factor.
  When he was new to the field, he had to score good music for whichever movie that comes to his hands.
  So even movie like ninaivellAm nithya and ArAdhanai had great songs.
  
  Once he was well settled (ie., the no 1 spot),that vigour in him started decreasing.
  This is purely psychological.This is the case with every human being. Given a deadline won't we complete a task which we would have completed a week later if that deadline were not there??
  
  I feel, it was his coviction and the necessity to attain the heights that made him score great numbers for junk movies and nothing else.
  
  
  
• From: Sankaran (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Thu Oct 22 09:03:08 EDT 1998
  
  Shankar,
  I beg to differ with your opinion. In the first place, IR had become numero uno in TFM long before 1987(yes I too perceive that 1986-1987 had been a watershed period in IR's career, more aboout my views later). He was scorng for close to 40 movies a year before 1987 also and a majority of them were out of the world. Another reason why I think your reasoning is faulty is that when IR could no longer assume that the No.1 position was his(after ARR's advent), why couldn't he attain his earlier form? In fact, I feel that the slide was all the more evident after 1992,only the very best directors/situations could bring out flashes of that genius.
  One trait that was very mush evident in IR's music,post-1987, was the reduced western classical influence. One was also forced to believe that IR had been more "generous" before 1987.
  
  

---

List all pages of this thread

Post comments