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Hariharan's pronouncing

Topic started by Giridarapuram Suresh (@ begis50.swift.com) on Tue Jun 23 16:22:28 EDT 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

There has been many criticism on Hari's singing of Tamil songs, but I don't think he is singing that bad in terms of his 'Ucharippu' , Though there may be some words goes like that even for KJ it used happen like that, I feel Hari is singing excellant particullarly 'Ennai Thaalatta ..' and 'Vanna Nilave' and recent 'Vaanathu Thaaragaiyo'. I don't know why the criticism is ? May be just because he was introduced by ARR ?? BTW I am an ardent fan of IR .

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: aruvi (@ spc-isp-tor-uas-87-3.sprint.ca) on: Tue Jun 1 16:34:54 EDT 1999
  
  chandy
  
  I think that the reason he was well recieved by the audience was that he sang dance numbers and was dancing around. Imagine if SPB did that! But all said and done, HE did NOT sound better than SPB. And of course, I have to agree with you, his pronunciation was BAD. Especially noticeable when they did the unplugged portion. Everyone else was good, but he sounded like a kid foreign to tamil, singing 'Nila Kaiyekirathu'.I wish that instead of giving him a tamil song, they had given it to SPB, Chitra and Sujatha, instead of making them sing hindi songs. I missed the tamil touch in the concert. I think they just put a couple of tamil songs to satisfy the people and it all went to Rahman, cuz he isn't comfortable with hindi, I suppose. But, rather than him or Hari, the others above should have sung in tamil.
  
  
• From: austin3:16 (@ pc023.domain10.nasionet.net) on: Wed Jun 2 00:07:21 EDT 1999
  
  konjum niruthenge..geniusmargale....
  
  hariharanoda..pronounciationne criticise panra allave vanthetingela....
  
  AUSTIN 3:16 says that no one here can even sing......no...hum like him...
  
  so..better stop from discussing bout him b,coz STONE COLD said so......
  
  
• From: chandy (@ 209.125.83.228) on: Wed Jun 2 09:28:41 EDT 1999
  
  aruvi,
  
  vennilave vennilave, uyire uyire are all dance numbers?? HH was applauded for his singing, and he sang well. Yes, he was also trying to dance and giving some jiffy steps, but that wasnt the reason why audience liked him.
  
  I was also referring to SPB's live shows in general. SPB is great, but he sounds much better in albums than on live shows. As far as this ARR's dubai conert was concerned, SPB sang a few numbers like "Oruvan Oruvan mudalaali" - he didnt have as many numbers as HH - as the show was largely hindi-music based.
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: chandy (@ 209.125.83.228) on: Wed Jun 2 09:29:15 EDT 1999
  
  aruvi,
  
  vennilave vennilave, uyire uyire are all dance numbers?? HH was applauded for his singing, and he sang well. Yes, he was also trying to dance and giving some jiffy steps, but that wasnt the reason why audience liked him.
  
  I was also referring to SPB's live shows in general. SPB is great, but he sounds much better in albums than on live shows. As far as this ARR's dubai conert was concerned, SPB sang a few numbers like "Oruvan Oruvan mudalaali" - he didnt have as many numbers as HH - as the show was largely hindi-music based.
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Aparna (@ bfp2.brooks.net) on: Thu Jun 3 13:18:54 EDT 1999
  
  I agree with many of your opinion that HH pronounciation is average. So what take Udit Narayan, his pronounciation is ?*&^%$#@!~ but he has a good voice, maintains shruthi.
  
  No doubt Bhavam in a song is lost when you cannot appreciate the meaning of the lyrics which is necessary for punching emotions at verious stages in a song, if the singer can understand the meaning of the lyrics ( Which these days have nothing to convey except eduthuko, ottiko, kattiko)it should be sufficient to render justice to a song.
  
  HH no doubt is a very very good singer and some of his songs are really hard to perform on stage. But if you take IR one does not need a good voice of for that matter a voice at all. IR must confine his activity to composing, IMO I find all of his songs which he has sung have been tortured and humiliated for want of good vocals and Shruthi balance and to top it he has asked Bhava(his daughter) to continue with the crucifiction. Man bad days for quality singers has already begun!!!
  
  
  
• From: srini (@ ucmcml.san.uc.edu) on: Thu Jun 3 16:23:03 EDT 1999
  
  Just a few words....Hariharan is tooo good and a versatile singer...no second thoughts...
  
  
• From: aruvi (@ spc-isp-tor-uas-98-46.sprint.ca) on: Thu Jun 3 17:04:00 EDT 1999
  
  Actually, bad days for quality singers began in 1992.....suresh peter and co.:-))
  
  
• From: Rags (@ stingray.cincom.com) on: Fri Jun 4 01:03:44 EDT 1999
  
  I wonder if pronunciation is important at all - given the fantastic (!?) quality of the lyrics. Having said that TFM has always appreciated and welcomed good singers with POOR tamil pronunciations. Some regulars like KJY have known to be unbashed about their pronunciations even during days when good lyrics were taken for granted - "Theru kovile odivaa..." !!:-)
  Hari, like SPB, takes some concessions while singing - "Wonakaga" of Hari is as sweet as "Isaikyum" of SPB, what say !
  
  
• From: PaLaNi (@ hq.jkr.gov.my) on: Fri Jun 4 02:23:31 EDT 1999
  
  hhmmmmmm sounds nice to hear comments .....but as what Aparna said.....we can hardly count on the number of singers who can use proper tamil....even SPB wasnt a so called perfect beginner....he is a superb singer no doubt....ppl should know that he writes songs in Malayalam when he sings in Tamil
  thats no harm....its the voice that mind...u want to have perfect pronounsiation than its time for us to call TMS to sing songs like uyire...uyire and songs like Nila Kaigirathu....imagine.....fun i suppose....ppl are goin crazy for music nowdays...trust me its the music and the sensational voice and the superb Lyric that mines ..no matter who sings ...its this element which makes the song HIT....ARR& vairamuthu are perfect match, DEVA and the double V (vairamuthu and Valli)..and Ilayaraja& palanibharathi all of them understood this well....its just that HH is lucky enough to get more chances....Thats just the way it is...All the singers are superb....no heart feelings everybody.....we have potential in the rise like...Unnikrishnan who is undoubtfully the perfect replacement for Dr. KJ Jesudass.
  love u all
  
  
• From: Dorai (@ gateway7.ey.com) on: Fri Jun 4 11:38:19 EDT 1999
  
  Palani,
  SPB writes songs in Malayalam or Telugu. SPB's mother tongue is "TELEGU"
  
  
• From: chandy (@ 41.dallas-08-09rs.tx.dial-access.att.net) on: Fri Jun 4 13:59:36 EDT 1999
  
  Rags, there are fans who listen to music just for lyrics or for the language aspect. And Pronounciation does matter. It matters as much as lyrics. Dont we all listen to lots of kannadasan songs just for his wonderful lyrics?
  
  And the argument here is that HH needs to focus on his pronounication and language so that he can improve himself. Voice quality or singing talent doesnt compensate for poor pronouncation. Can HH afford to sing in poo pornonciation in HFM or in ghazals? Didnt he take pains to learn urdu to improve his hindi diction and rendering of ghazals? Why doesnt he focus a bit of pronouncing tamil words properly??
  
  
  
• From: Aparna (@ bfp2.brooks.net) on: Fri Jun 4 14:20:28 EDT 1999
  
  Chandy:
  
  It is not that HH is wantly mispronouncing Tamil words, Accept it is his incapacity. Yes he did learn Urdu so that he can perform his Ghazals on level with North or Pak based Ghazal singers. Atleast he does not pronounce Tamil words as badly as Lata, Asha Bhonsle or Udit Narayan. He basically belongs to the North based singers and of all North Based singers his diction of Tamil is the best.
  
  True he must focus on pronounciation of Tamil words if he earns for even better recognition. But tell What, ARR is a pucca Tamilian I find his Tamil diction very similar to HH So!! People have accepted it.
  
  But whereas in North people did not accept SPB's hindi diction, that is why SPB was not able to shine well in North as he did in the South. If people from South had show same tempermeant then it would have a diff story all together, but IMO South people are more inclined towards quality and melody of Voice except for few misgivings of (Deva , IR etc) which we can count over fingers.
  
  HH defniteley needs some classes in Tamil diction this -(minus) of his is being compensated by the +(plus) of his which is his fresh voice which IMO is acceptable.
  
  I find many Tamil singers still say "Tamil" instead of "Tamizh" if this can happen to traditional tamil singers then why cant you excuse HH????
  
  
• From: chandy (@ 205.dallas-06-07rs.tx.dial-access.att.net) on: Fri Jun 4 15:42:50 EDT 1999
  
  Aparna,
  
  Listen to HH's latest colonial cousins-II where he uses some tamil lyrics. Its awful!! In stage shows, where he has to perform on-stage, one need not mind his wrong pronounciations - But for playback, it doesnt require great effort to just check the pronounciations out. Look at P.Susheela - shes a teleguite and cant speak well in tamil. But her diction and pronounciation in tamil are awesome.
  
  IMO, fresh voice or high pitch does not compensate for poor pronounication. I'm told several non-tmail singers bother to learn the meaning of the songs (Asha) they sing to bring out the baavam and give right expressions to the song.
  
  If HH doesnt bother to check his pronounications in tamil, but is keen to learn urdu to improve his diction, it reflects on his interests and priorities. dont you think so? As a tamilian by birth (correct me if i am wrong), the least I would expect of HH is to improve his tamil pronounication. That would help him reach much larger heights in TFM. HH is one the most promising, upcoming singers in TFM, and improving his tamil diction and focussing a bit there would only help him to sing better.
  
  
  
• From: Mr.Kuzapam (@ 206.139.13.152) on: Fri Jun 4 16:56:37 EDT 1999
  
  Excusing him is the one of the solution to the problem, we are still discussing about the problem. Did you see HH live in Dubai, he struggled to sing live, he lost shruthi at regular intervals, he tamil pronounciation was very very very poor!.... our claim here is why he has not improved..., when people many north'es have improved. Eg:Kavitha Krishamurty, Latha, Asha, Sonunigam etc etc
  
  Aparana - is Tamizh correct pronounciation. I know some people who read it as Tami..Zee..h.
  LoL
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ daecfp01.sprint.com) on: Fri Jun 4 17:59:09 EDT 1999
  
  I have said this before. What the heck! Let me repeat it. The en mass degeneration of thamizh pronunciation started with the advent of ARR. Starting with Gentleman - note the obvious Suresh Peters' Chikku Pukku and the less obvious female chorus in PaakkaadhEy PaakkaadhEy singing "killaadhEy and thallaadhEy" instead of "kiLLaadhEy and thaLLaadhEy" as well as "dhaavaniya" instead of "dhaavaNiya".
  
  WARNING: Bold and aggressive remark coming up. Sincerely, concern expressed but no offence meant.
  
  When I heard these songs for the first time and raised my eyebrows I was told that this was representative of 'typical Madras tamil'. Actually, I lived my entire life in Calcutta before migrating to the U.S. Whether good or bad, I and been exposed to only one variety of thamizh (99% brahmiN thamizh with paNNarachchEy, vandhudungO type but with no problems in proper differentiation between 'n' and 'N' or l, L and zh or 'r' and 'R'. Strange, but most of my exposure to people from Madras/thamizh nadu happened in the U.S. I was surprised that while many of the usages like 'piragu' instead of 'appuram', or 'purappadumaa' instead of 'keLambumaa' were "purer", many people from Madras/thamizh nadu pronounced 'keela' (for 'keezhEy), vaalga (instead of vaazhga) and had confusion about 'n' vs. 'N'. My point is that the faulty pronunciation has spread throughout the thamizh speaking culture. When I listen to the SUN TV broad casts, I find that many of the presenters have problems with mellinam and idaiyinam (not Valamburi John or Solomon Paappaiyaa).
  
  My guess is that when HH is recording a song, because of current track recording trends there is probably only a couple of guys like ARR, Noel James and Suresh Peters hanging around and thats it. Even if HH made a mistake, the others don't have the knowledge in them to correct it.
  
  Anybody who says that SPB has pronunciation faults (excluding rare slip of the tongue in live shows maybe) doesn't know what he/she is talking about.
  
  
• From: Mani Sastry (@ p96.amax7.dialup.aus1.flash.net) on: Sat Jun 5 00:07:15 EDT 1999
  
  I absolutely agree with Raja on his comments. I had no exposure of Tamizh until I met Raja 2 years ago. So rightly I do not have any authority to say anything about HH's Tamizh pronunciation. But as a true & pure Telugu speaking, I can surely say HH stinks at Telugu songs. The mistakes he makes are innumerable and unexcusable. As a professional playback singer the least he could do is to check his tongue one way or the other. I know I try my best to do a decent job at singing the lyrics properly whether it is Hindi, Tamizh, Malayalam or any other eventhough I am nowhere near the high levels of any of our playback singers. (Raja knows how many times I talk to him to get my tongue right before a Tamizh concert.) If I could try as a singer at the lowest end of the spectrum, why can't HH try and do some justice to the language? A song can become a song only when all aspects of it are cared for.
  
  

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