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Hariharan's pronouncing

Topic started by Giridarapuram Suresh (@ begis50.swift.com) on Tue Jun 23 16:22:28 EDT 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

There has been many criticism on Hari's singing of Tamil songs, but I don't think he is singing that bad in terms of his 'Ucharippu' , Though there may be some words goes like that even for KJ it used happen like that, I feel Hari is singing excellant particullarly 'Ennai Thaalatta ..' and 'Vanna Nilave' and recent 'Vaanathu Thaaragaiyo'. I don't know why the criticism is ? May be just because he was introduced by ARR ?? BTW I am an ardent fan of IR .

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Geetha (@ gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk) on: Fri May 28 13:03:47 EDT 1999
  
  Dorai: No one in the world Except me :) I feel that you make that comment because you have only heard it sung in IR's voice!
  
  IR didn't maintain a constant shruthi in the song, a wonderful song it was, he sang it with emotion, as he did Thenpaandi Cheemaiyile, but the shruthi aspect was not there IMO.
  
  Have a nice long weekend ;)
  
  
• From: Sriram Lakshman (@ ifmxlenx.na.informix.com) on: Fri May 28 13:24:30 EDT 1999
  
  Dorai, IR himself will not accept what you say.HH's shruthi sense is second to none, c'mon he has spent most of his professional life singing ghazals live and shruthi sense is the first thing that is stuffed into a singer's head up north ( I mean Hindustani). The maximum limit I give IR is 5 lines, after which the shruthi, as a rule, drops.Janani song is no exception, Deepan Chakravarthy (a part of the chorus) would have done a much better job.As for the divine qualities you happen to perceive in IR's voice, no argument, that depends on the individual listener. IMO IR's voice is rustic (like MV's) and best used for songs like "SoLam vethakkayile" (16 vayathinile).
  I agree with what Geeta says, Bhava is best when she does not sing.
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ kcecfp02.sprint.com) on: Fri May 28 15:18:41 EDT 1999
  
  Sriram,
  
  I totally agree with you about HH. Even though, I felt that HH's sruthi at the beginning of veNNilavEy was slightly off the sruthi of the song (once the instrumental leads start), I would place the blame more on ARR for punching multiple tracks and missing attention to detail. In fact this example (of bad punching) is prevalent throughout the song. Otherwise, I have not heard any song in which HH has sruthi problems.
  
  IR, ARR, SDBurman, RDBurman are all singers of similar genre. You like them when they are exceptions - one out of 50 songs by the likes of SPB, Rafi, KK etc. Oru varietykku oorina naarththangaa thottukkara maadhiri. But, if they try to become staple diet, one will discover all the subtle (or even blatant) nuisances (NOT NUANCES) in their singing.
  
  Of course Bhava is veLakkeNNai - will never like her.
  
  
• From: Sriram Lakshman (@ ifmxlenx.na.informix.com) on: Fri May 28 15:53:05 EDT 1999
  
  RajaG,
  You had drawn similar comparisons between some artiste and MahaLi kazhangu earlier:-)
  You could MSV to the list. Probably the best singer-MD I have come accross is CRamachandra and next, SDB. SDB to me was a very good singer, in terms of technicalities and very intelligently chose songs to sing like "wahan kaun hai thera","Sun mere bandhoo re", "Kahe ko roye".
  
  
• From: Sriram Lakshman (@ ifmxlenx.na.informix.com) on: Fri May 28 15:54:16 EDT 1999
  
  BTW did you check out Chakri's home page?
  
  
• From: Hari (@ ts20-35.slip.uwo.ca) on: Fri May 28 23:11:56 EDT 1999
  
  I would differ from the consensual opinion here. I have never heard a single phrase from IR that is not in shruthi. I think one could get this feeling because his voice is weak. He does not have a conventionally likeable voice (much like ARR, whose singing I like a lot; pronounciation not withstanding, columbus is my favourite song from Jeans). Paradoxically, I can quote an instance where HH loses it: the first charanam of meetatha oru veenai.
  
  Slightly tangentially, not many people seem to realize that IR is quite literate in sanskrit (or that he can compose in the carnatic idiom). He has composed a few krithis in this language, the most recent being the one in Kaliyoonjal (see the BGM thread for more on this.)
  
  
• From: P. Sundram (@ palo1.pacific.net.sg) on: Sat May 29 02:42:29 EDT 1999
  
  Globalisation is the catchword in today's world, and we should learn to be tolerant of different accents, which in fact enrich a language. (Someone pointed out rightly elsewhere in this thread that accent is different from pronunciation.) Anyway, what is standard accent today? Even the British can't quite decide what's a standard English accent?
  
  Hariharan may have a slight pronunciation problem -- he was raised in Bombay and his Tamil lyrics have to be transliterated into Hindi. But this does NOT in any way detract from the fact that he's an excellent singer. And I find his "non-standard" accent cute.
  
  Lyrics have never been an impediment to my appreciation of music. I listen to HH's ghazals a lot without understanding a word of Urdu/Hindi and have been deeply moved by his emotive style. The hallmark of a good singer is the ability to evoke the right emotions in the listener; lyrics are quite immaterial. In this regard, HH is superb.
  
  Furthermore, in film music today, it would be awkward and unrealistic to enunciate every word in every situation. In love songs, for instance, one expects some degree of slurring of words. Anway, can anyone tell me whether they can catch half the lyrics in today's English pop music without straining?
  
  
• From: P. Sundram (@ palo1.pacific.net.sg) on: Sat May 29 02:54:31 EDT 1999
  
  On a different note, please make an effort to understand what shruti is about before making damaging comments like Hariharan was singing off shruti in the opening stanza of "Vennilaveh vennilaveh" from Minsara Kanavu. (The music composition was a bit awkward in that song; HH didn't stray from shruti; he comes from a musical family and his shruti sense is impeccable. I couldn't say the same of Illayaraja's singing; he does tend to stray from shruti but I accept this as he's an excellent composer and not a trained singer. Mercifully, he doesn't hog the limelight by singing all his compositions himself.)
  
  
• From: UV (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Sat May 29 12:04:19 EDT 1999
  
  Sundaram,
  
  HH bringing out emotions!!He is the best mechanical singer I have ever seen. Check the emotional part of kaadhal rojaave and rojaa jaaneman by SPB and HH respectively.you might claim , technically he was better blah..blah, but when it comes to bringing out emotions , he 's -273 :))
  
  "Even the British can't quite decide what's a standard English accent?"
  
  Exactly. I dont want that to happen to tamizh.
  
  by the way, it was meetaadha our veenai and not vennilave..vennilave where HH struggles.
  
  bringing in some accent is tolerable but singing "unakku mattum" as "wonakku mattum" is pathetic (the song is "manasa thotta" from kaadhal kavidai).
  
  being a good singer does not compensate your poor pronunciation.
  
  
• From: P Sundram (@ palo11.pacific.net.sg) on: Sun May 30 03:16:25 EDT 1999
  
  Hi UV. I've heard SPB and HH's versions of "Roja janeman" (SPB too has sung it in Hindi). A physically weakend man, as Aravinswamy was in the movie, couldn't possibly have sung the song with as much vigour as SPB did, and I think HH was singing it with understated emotions for effect. Anyway, the question of evoking emotions through music is a very subjective one -- one man's music is another's noise. So, you're entitled to your opionion, except that on balance few would agree that HH is, in your words, "the best mechanical singer" ever!
  
  Someone else had singled out Vennilaveh vennilaveh (unjustifiably) hence my rejoinder. I agree one line of Meetaadha or veenai (Marandha andha paadal) was a little high and a bit of a strain for HH but I've heard similar boo boos from other singers. I can't recall any significant ones to single out at this point. Don't want to nitpick on a single phrase.
  
  As for pronunciation, I did concede HH may have a slight problem. I also concede HH's accent may not be "standard" Tamil accent, whatever on earth that is. But I still maintain that pronunciation and accent are not integral to enjoyment of good music. (I am certain Telugu speakers would squirm everytime a non-native Carnatic singer sings a Telugu song at a concert, but this has not stood in the way of legions of good Carnatic singers from being acclaimed as such.)
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ 109.new-york-30-35rs.ny.dial-access.att.net) on: Mon May 31 11:36:33 EDT 1999
  
  Pronounciation issue now moves towards shuruthi.
  HH needs step/punch in/out recording.He cannot sing film songs at a strecth. If you see him perfoming live he will struggle, I happened to see ARR in Dubai, HH lost the pitch and scale at regular intervals. He needs to improve.
  
  Btw: Sriram, you are considerate to give IR 5 lines, I would give him just 2 lines before he losses shuruthi.
  Rajji don't pounce on me, this is just my opinion. This has got nothing to do with his composing abilities.
  
  
  
• From: Dorai (@ gateway7.ey.com) on: Tue Jun 1 11:34:40 EDT 1999
  
  Geetha,
  Tell me where IR lost shruthi in Jannanee Jannanee song. I would like to know. Also, you have mentioned that I have listened to only IR's version of the song. Is there another version of jannanee Jannanee song. ???
  
  
• From: P Sundram (@ palo7.pacific.net.sg) on: Tue Jun 1 11:51:04 EDT 1999
  
  Hi Srikanth. I have seen HH on stage six times and I cannot agree with your conclusion that he struggles during live performances and can't sing a full song at a stretch. Shruti was never a problem at any of the six concerts I've attended.
  
  I haven't seen the Dubai concert so I can't really comment on HH's performance on that occasion. My suspicion is that if your description was indeed accurate, then it must have been due to HH's unique style for an Indian singer. Unlike the average Indian singer who stands at attention and concentrates solely on his singing, HH is a total performer/entertainer. He lets his hair down and breaks into dance when inspired by the music. Few in the audience fail to sway to his high-energy, foot-stomping performances. This style of his could perhaps have resulted in an occasional breathlessness or flat note in Dubai, but it would not detract from the fact that HH is on the whole a singer of fine calibre.
  
  If you can, please do listen to a live ghazal recording of his entitled "Hariharan in Concert". It took me a long time to believe that it was a live recording as HH's singing was technically flawless and emotion-laden (and there was no studio touch-up). The Colonial Cousins Unplugged recording is another fine specimen of HH's ability to hold himself on stage (again, there was no studio touch-up). On the other hand, highly acclaimed Western singers have assaulted my ears badly when performing on the same Unplugged series (I shall not single out names here).
  
  
• From: chandy (@ 209.125.83.228) on: Tue Jun 1 14:52:43 EDT 1999
  
  Srikanth : I have seen the video of the ARR's dubai concert and I didnt notice HH "losing pitch and scale at regular intervals". In fact, he sounded better than SPB-on-stage, and was also received by the crowds well. What irked me was his tamil pronounciation and his pony-tail.
  
  In one of the earliers messages in a different thread on HH, someone pointed out that HH's voice and high pitch are partially due to the recording techniques, citing vennilave vennilave's "penne.. bhoo logam ellame thoongi pona pinne" portion as an example. HH rendered this song in the dubai concert and he was very good even at the high pitch parts.
  
  chandy
  
  

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