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Hariharan's pronouncing

Topic started by Giridarapuram Suresh (@ begis50.swift.com) on Tue Jun 23 16:22:28 EDT 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

There has been many criticism on Hari's singing of Tamil songs, but I don't think he is singing that bad in terms of his 'Ucharippu' , Though there may be some words goes like that even for KJ it used happen like that, I feel Hari is singing excellant particullarly 'Ennai Thaalatta ..' and 'Vanna Nilave' and recent 'Vaanathu Thaaragaiyo'. I don't know why the criticism is ? May be just because he was introduced by ARR ?? BTW I am an ardent fan of IR .

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.26.121) on: Fri Jun 26 02:27:37 EDT 1998
  
  with hariharan the problem is more with his voice than pronunciation as gopal has said.lot of other guys like ARR,suresh peters,udit etc. have killed tamil before and the audience have accepted it.
  it is a downswing in taste on the part of audience that makes them appreciate whatever songs they hear from these singers.
  
  hariharan's voice lacks that 'thamizh mann' flavour to put it curt and right.he can never bring in that flavour,because he can never change his voice.
  
  
• From: Madhan (@ 202.41.117.11) on: Fri Jun 26 09:40:16 EDT 1998
  
  In "Vaanathhu thaaragaiyyo" HH pronounces "kandu pidi " as "kandu Vidi" very casually -
  "kandu Vidi" yendru oru vaarthai Tamizhil iruppadhu ippadhaan yenakku therindhadhu anaal arthham puriyavillai.
  
  Somehow, I feel that HH is IN A TREMENDOUS HURRY TO FINISH THE SONGS , SO DOES NOT BOTHER TO WORRY ABOUT THE DICTIONS.
  
  WHereas, IR pronouces "PUNARAPI JANANAM, PUNARAPI MARANAM" sloka in INDIA - 24 hrs., perfectly
  
  
• From: Non-violence (@ pc109.renewal-iis.com) on: Fri Jun 26 12:00:40 EDT 1998
  
  This thread serves no purpose. It is incorrect on behalf of everyone of us to criticize a good singer just because you are a die hard fan of other. This looks like another ARR-IR argument.
  Shall we discuss something worthwhile?
  Hari is definetely not a bad singer. Do not compare singers. I appreciate Hari for having his own style. Singers like Mano came to this field by imitating SPB. Hari never imitated anybody.
  
  
• From: Arun Prakash (@ 1cust8.tnt2.det1.da.uu.net) on: Sun Jun 28 18:01:54 EDT 1998
  
  Mr bharath, FYI the song Abigyanaa from "Kaadal Ooviyam has been sung by SPB and not by IR.
  
  Arun Prakash.
  
  
• From: Rajaraman (@ 192.122.140.78) on: Mon Jun 29 02:22:21 EDT 1998
  
  Arun Prakash,
  
  it's by TKS kalaivaanan.
  
  
• From: kitcha (@ dhcp232-184.eel.ufl.edu) on: Mon Jun 29 15:29:42 EDT 1998
  
  Sorry to poke my head into this.....Long time since I did this, as Gopal,pg(and NOV,are you there? ) would agree.
  :-)
  
  Hariharan has a good voice.Period. I know not much about shruti,and all those high-sounding carnatic terminology that you throw into this thread to ward off ignorant souls, like me, from the discussion.
  
  But one thing I noticed about HH.....he seems to think that he can get away with all that subtle nuances(?) that he manages to creep into his numbers.
  
  Personally I like SPB...not only for the sheer magic in his voice but also for all that extra something he puts into a song, like that "siruppu" in Pani Vizhum malarvanam or his verstaility in singing a song like "raathiri velayalil"(Anjali)
  or doing that "kukukuku koo" in "Hey! or aayiram" (Meendum Kokila).
  
  Now HH tries doing that too and falls flat on his face...His yodelling or modulation or whatever you call it, in some of his songs can really make your nerves stand on edge!!
  Like "aval varuvaala"....or "malargale malargale".
  he suddenly seems to go out of tune...dont know if thats still in "shruti"...but it definitely sounds like a old gramaphone player dishing out music at "variable" speed !! For a layman like me it sounds terrible.
  Now if there is an explanation for this in Carnatic music then I would humbly listen, but still not accept it!!
  
  
• From: chandy (@ ) on: Tue May 25 10:06:07 EDT 1999
  
  I recently watched a video of ARR's live concert in middle-east. HH was there in full form - He sang a lot of hindi numbers including the famous Santaare Santaare (Vennilave vennilave) number from Sapney (minsaara kanavu), he sounded awesome. However, when he sang tamil songs, though he rendered the songs well, his tamil pronouncitation was BAD. For example, he sang Nila Kaigiradhu (indira) as "nila kAAgiradhu".
  
  In his recent album colonial cousins part-II, he sings a song with a couple of tamil lyrics - and his pronounciation is PATHETIC. HH should atleast bother to check with someone and improve his pronouncitation of tamil words. When saadana sargam, asha, udit, sukhwinder singh and many other non-tamil singers seem to put in a great efforts to learn the pronounciation, but HH seems to have taken this for granted!
  
  There is a difference between singing tamil songs with a hindi accent (eg, udit, asha) and pronouncing the tamil words correctly. HH's problem lies in the latter.
  
  chandy
  
  
  
• From: Dorai (@ gateway7.ey.com) on: Tue May 25 13:11:57 EDT 1999
  
  Geetha,
  Don't Criticize IR's tamil pronunciation. He is one of the best when it comes to that. Here are some examples.
  1. Jannanee jannanee
  2. Naan Thedum Seventhi Poovethu.
  3. Poomalaye Tholserava.
  4. Thenpandi Seemaiyele
  3. Vaanathu Tharagaiyoo (Poonthotam).
  
  Lets take Vaanathu Tharagaiyoo. IRs rendering of the song is impeccable in terms of maintaining the sruthi and also pronunciation. Whereas, HH's version is inferior in terms of sruthi and pronunciation.
  
  Lets not forget the fact the same HH was once rejected by MSV after a voice test. IMO, MSV's judgment is right even now. HH is surviving because the present TFM does not have any standards and don't care for Tamil pronunciation or Sruthi. All they need is a new voice.
  
  
• From: Geetha (@ gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk) on: Fri May 28 05:11:24 EDT 1999
  
  Dorai: When did I critizise IR's pronounciation? I critisized his ability NOT to sing in SHRUTHI. His pronounciation is perfect. As for your last point, we will agree to disagree on that! Hari always has perfect Shruthi, IR nearly never has perfect Shruthi(have you really listened to Vandhadu Thaarigaiyo or are you just making a biased statement?), IR was accepted as a singer in the past, and I believe not the present!
  
  By the way, where did you get that info. about MSV and the voice test? If there is an article on the web, I'd very much like to read it.
  
  Chandy: I agree, I too felt the same, even though I love Hari's voice, on stage, his pronounciation was terrible. Also that Begada song in 'The way we do it', agreed again, I had to listen to it many a time to work out what he was trying to say!
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ 254.new-york-20-25rs.ny.dial-access.att.net) on: Fri May 28 08:50:01 EDT 1999
  
  Hi,
  Madan you are right, HH often seems he is in a hurry. Some one has to tell him, he will surely attempt to rectify it.
  
  Basically, MD is the person who should tell the singer to sing properly. Taking MSV, he will insist to sing the words clearly, since he is a senior musican people will accept without any ego etc. But currently there is no MD who could guide the singers to pronounce properly. Though I have seen VM troubling singers on pronounciation, but if ARR intercepts, he often shuts himself off.
  Frankly HH should know his limitations, he should improve --- from tamiza tamiza till date, he is still sings in the same format, he has not improved., he trying to do what he cannot do is my calim.
  
  Taking SPB, If you hear what he sang in Iyarkai ennum (Shanti Nilayam,1968) is much different from Ialamai idho idho, we can eaisly see an improvement in the voice/modulation over a period of time.
  
  I feel we cannot give credit to HH as a unique singer, he is also a singer,
  Like KJY, he is also troubled by the pronounciation problem.
  Hope he improves.
  
  Srikanth
  
  
• From: Dorai (@ gateway7.ey.com) on: Fri May 28 11:45:34 EDT 1999
  
  Geetha,
  About MSV rejecting HH on a voice test, this was said by none other than HH himself in 'Raj TV' in India when was narrating as to how he got to TFM as a playback singer.
  
  As I have stated above, maintaining shruthi, IR is not below anyone. Take all the songs above, give me an instance where he struggled to maintain shruthi.
  
  HH is horrible on stage interms of pronunciation or maintaining shruthi. Watch ARR's concert in Dubai and you will realize what I am saying.
  ARR was nodding his head in frustration when HH is singing Chandare,,,chandaree...
  
  
  
• From: Geetha (@ mail-gw1.uk.oracle.com) on: Fri May 28 12:15:23 EDT 1999
  
  Dorai: Thanks for the info, I hope I get to see that interview at some point. I have watched the Dubai concert, I have also seen HH sing live, in Wembley(that was a much better portrait of HH's singing ability, in Dubai, he seemed very off form!). HH has perfect shruthi. In Vennelive, the style of singing was used for effect, as far as I know, it is a blend of Ragas and Rajiv Menon himself wanted it like that. He is a knowledgeable musician, who gives a lot of input to the singers and ARR in the movies he does.
  
  Anyway, you incinuated that I said that IR's pronounciation was bad, I never did! IR cannot stay in shruthi(it is a well known fact), Bhavadhaarini has the same problem - it seems to run in the family. In all the songs you mention, I can detect an imbalance of shruthi. As a singer, it is very important to be able to distinguish this and correct it if it drops. Thenpaandi Seemaiyile called for that effect in it's situation, so it didn't feel like a drop, but in Janani Janani, it definitely with have been better sung by KJJ ir SPB. Kamalahaasan has a few Shruthi problems too. Think of a great song like Kannamma Kadhal Endrum, his drops in shruthi spoil an otherwise wonderful composition. In the Poonthottam song, HH sings it better, his pronounciation does need a re-haul though, but as he's from Paalgat(he's nearly Mallu), I let him off, his voice really does it for me and many others, hence forgivance of the other bits. Hopefully, he'll pronounce like KJJ at least, at some point in his career.
  
  
• From: Dorai (@ gateway7.ey.com) on: Fri May 28 12:29:58 EDT 1999
  
  Geetha,
  Thanks for the reply. Janani Janani is a very good example of IR maintianing the shruthi and more than the shruthi, pronunciation etc, the Deivega Voice, I can't forget till my last breadth. What a wonderfull song. There is a great story behind thus song. IR recorded this song in Track and KJY was supposed to sing the song. The Director of the film and Rajinikanth heard the track, got moved and insisted that only IR should sing the song. Hence, IRs version was recorded finally.
  
  If you hear the song many times you will realize his voice is too good and apt for this song. KJY is a better singer than IR but this song belongs to IR and no one in the world can dispute that.
  
  
• From: Geetha (@ gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk) on: Fri May 28 13:03:14 EDT 1999
  
  Dorai: No one in the world Except me :)
  
  IR didn't maintain a constant shruthi in the song, a wonderful song it was, he sang it with emotion, as he did Thenpaandi Cheemaiyile, but the shruthi aspect was not there IMO.
  
  Have a nice long weekend ;)
  
  

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