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The bitter truth about DEVA?

Topic started by Observer (@ spider-wc044.proxy.aol.com) on Mon Sep 28 20:54:53 EDT 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

DEVA has been making quite some waves (as against VS making quiet waves!) in TFM today. I am just back from india where i found how DEVA pulls masses and holds them with his reluctantly acceptable melodies.
When i spoke to my brother-in-law , (who is not so much addicted to TFM) he said DEVA is known copier. Even a kid who services tea to the bench-sitters in a tea shop readily quipped ' Deva-VA, Avar nalla copy adipar sir '. But the same kid goes dancing for 'Kothaval savadi lady nee koyambedu vadi ' from the film ' kannethire thondrinal'. When saw this film in a theater in trichy, the whole auditorium was shaking with people's whistles and dances for the song. Whether the mass support(!) for DEVA exists or not, he certainly makes them enjoy his tunes.
And to add to this truth, me being an objective lover of TFM( or any Music for that matter!), happen to record songs from some recent Tamil Movies on a CD from a recording shop. Believe it or not, 4 out of 5 songs i liked were songs composed by DEVA! The songs were from the following films,
1. Piriyamudan( bharathikku kannamma , poojavaa poojavaa )
2. Natpukkaga(garuda garuda, meesakara nanba)
3. Dharma(iru kangal pothathu)
4. Poonthottam(vanathu tharagayo)
5. kannethire thondrinal( chinna chinna, kanave kalaiyathe, easwara)

I could not be subjective, by ignoring DEVA songs for his so called plagiarism, for that I liked the melodies (Oh NO! , NOT the song 'kothaval savadi..') in the collections. Bharathikku kannamma, garuda garuda, chinna chinna kuyile all may sound like recycled stuff, and poojavaa is a copy from Gupt. But my mind (i.e conscience) readily accepts the melodies and i can not desist from humming the tunes. kanave kalaiyathe(i am not sure if this a recyle or copy) is an excellent tune. Though one may say he lifts tunes , i want to ask him(her) does that fact makes the song less popular, less molodious? Or does it make one feel like listening to the same song over and over? what kind of negative impact does it have on TFM lovers who have a genuine objective taste of songs? What is your school of thought got to say?

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Observer (@ spider-wd051.proxy.aol.com) on: Sun Nov 22 10:29:06 EST 1998
  
  Easwara,
  
  thanks to the heavens, that at least one soul on earth (apart from myself!) who has some objectivity listening to anybody's music. I just have one question in my mind , what is the greatest thing that IR achieved in the 90's barring a few songs in TFM? How long one has to keep listening to the same old 80s? Why in the world should one care about the originality of tunes?
  
  Just to give a simple example, when somebody buys anything from stores you look for 'quality' in terms of the usability of the product. If you are to choose from two brands A and B, A having some obselete technology (probably its own original) but nolonger seem to worth buying , and B with state of art (probably inspired by new design, never know) and satisfies every objective, which one would one choose. Would somebody choose A just because it is original though not worth buying? I would apply common sense that place!
  IMO, there is a deficiency of this when somebody keeps bashing DEVA blindly without listening with unbiased objectives
  
  
• From: Observer (@ spider-wd051.proxy.aol.com) on: Sun Nov 22 10:32:28 EST 1998
  
  To those who care about DEVA achieving guinness world record or 800 songs , watchout for(ever) SYMPHONY from maestro
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ 174-251-167.ipt.aol.com) on: Sun Nov 22 13:02:15 EST 1998
  
  Observer:
  Do you know why IR is afraid to release his Symphony ? Because he is afraid that Dacoit Deva will copy it and mix it with "Upendi" from Lion King 2 (Dacoit Deva has already copied from Lion King 1!!!) and release it for a movie starring Thaliavaasal Vijay in a drunk gaana song, dancing in a cemetery and sung by Dacoit Deva!!! Everyone from IR to ARR to our own Srikanth is afraid of Dacoit Deva !!! Vijay sonna maadhiri avar peyar Guinnessla vandhaalum, 800 songs copy adichadhukku dhaan varumey thavira, compose pannadhukku varaadhu !!!
  
  e.hari:
  I cannot be harsh enough with Dacoit Deva ! Your example assumes too many things. Dacoit Deva's music is not good even when it is copied. Do you mean to say that he improved upon or atleast equalled the originals when he copied from them ? Dacoit Deva's music, whether original or copied, is not worth buying, as far as I am concerned !!!
  
  
• From: Observer (@ spider-wc043.proxy.aol.com) on: Sun Nov 22 13:33:06 EST 1998
  
  "IR afraid of releasing SYMPHONY because DEVA will copy"
  
  what a hilarious execuse on the earth!.
  
  "Every one from IR to ARR is afraid of DEVA"
  
  ayyO pAvam!
  
  "Deva's music is not good even when it is copied, not worth buying"
  
  send this message to all folks in TF so they will stop listening to DEVA so that his numbers will never be enlisted in top 10!
  
  People seem to be BOILING here when they know the truth! Please cool down , this is only a discussion!
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.28.65) on: Sun Nov 22 15:49:10 EST 1998
  
  observer,
  IMO, your A and B example does not truly reflect the IR and deva comparison. in my case B does not satisfy all of my objectives, because, one of my main objectives is originality and innovation. if B is indeed inspired by some 'new foreign product design'?!! i will go for that product rather than buying the imitation B though B is available at a lot cheaper price.
  
  HOW CAN U TALK ABOUT THE QUALITY OF YOUR PRODUCT WHEN YOUR PRODUCT ITSELF IS NOT ORIGINAL?
  
  i can ask u the same question, what is the biggest thing deva has achieved in the 90's apart from earning the title 'copycat' in TFM.
  
  That the people do not care about originality anymore does'nt make deva's copies original!!
  
  the TFM would soon become the laughing stock of everyone if deva continues to copy at this pace. no longer can i proudly tell my bombay friends that TFM is original and high quality stuff.
  
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ 209-137-91.ipt.aol.com) on: Sun Nov 22 16:15:48 EST 1998
  
  Observer:
  You are the one who dragged IR unnecessarily into Dacoit Deva's thread :-)) That Dacoit Deva's music is not good and that it is not worth buying is all in my opinion, as I have taken care to mention in my prevoius posting :-)) Kavalapadadheenga saar, Dacoit Devavai karichikottarudhunna yenakku 'halwa' thunnara maadhiri :-)) Like vijay and cram have earlier mentioned, shouting at Dacoit Deva relaxes us and we enjoy doing it :-) there is no question of any of us getting upset ;-)
  
  
• From: Observer (@ spider-wd021.proxy.aol.com) on: Sun Nov 22 16:54:26 EST 1998
  
  Can someone say how MANY have dragged DEVA UNNECESSARILY in other threads on IR and ARR, for bashing? I don't worry like other(fanatics!) when somebody bashes DEVA or IR or ARR. I just listen to good music. IF somebody is singled out and bashed by fanatics , I just was there to mention nobody was CLEAN in all respects. BTW, if somebody thinks shouting at DEVA in this forum is relaxing, it just shows HOW HELPLESS they are! BTW, it is good amusement watching this! enjoy shouting!
  
  
• From: Mano (@ ws05.genie.uottawa.ca) on: Sun Nov 22 20:39:38 EST 1998
  
  Observer!
  I'm not sure why people drag Deva into IR vs ARR bash. I don't care whether the tunes are copy or not, as long as it sound good, I'll appreciate it regardless of the creator(IMO). It's a fact that Deva has provided good memorable songs very recently!
  1.2.98 il Unnai (Pudhumai PIthan)
  Janavari Nilave (En Uyir Nee thane)
  Vaanathil (Unnudan)
  They are really enjoyable songs. How many of you appreciate "Kalki" songs, a different type of album from Deva. Perhaps none.
  
  
• From: e hari (@ 169-56-130.ipt.aol.com) on: Sun Nov 22 21:02:55 EST 1998
  
  Observer,
  thank you, infact it is my pleasure to find another soul :-). The best example for your analogy is
  Mac and windows, and we know which one
  is popular and which is original.
  
  srinath,
  I like deva songs, and I stoped thinking, whether it is copied or not. If you dont like his music, it is your personal taste.
  BTW, did anyone listen to the song
  'kanave kalayathe' from the movie kannatheire
  thordinal. I feel the song is very good, one of the best I heard recently, and I could not trace any copied stuff there. But I know with deva, you can not say that, but still, even it is copied, it is not going to change my level of enjoyment.
  
  Folks, You can address me as hari :-)
  
  e.hari
  
  
• From: TFM_Politeness_Club_Chief(Ramki) (@ pm062-29.spindler.wmich.edu) on: Sun Nov 22 22:28:46 EST 1998
  
  Srinath can you kindly refrain from using words like 'Dacoit'. You can easily explain your views without using these words. Thanks
  
  
• From: sarigamaviji (@ spider-ta061.proxy.aol.com) on: Sun Nov 22 23:51:09 EST 1998
  
  Dear TMF Fans(all)
  Is n't it pathetic to see the TMF discussionists (including me now) arguing about this really "BITTER TRUTH".
  In my honest openion, Bappi Lahari ( A well known MD once upon a time) used to give lot of songs which became run away success , one after the other, in fact he scored for record number of HINDI movies in one of the years in 80's. Sure they all were super dupers (if you call them that way), used to make everybody dance in almost all gatherings, parties etc. He was mentioned as one of the highly paid MDs at that time, lot of those movies were also successful at the box office. But what happened to him now? How did he loose his popularity or why did people turned him down, though 90% of his songs were hits (with atleast 50 % of them being straight lifts from various sources). I personally and I am sure many others would agree) feel that his initial movies were really good and had lot of original music. Imagine his situation at that time with competetion from LP, RDB, KA ( being the big ones) and quite a few average MDs. What happened to Bappi Lahiri now ?. At one time he was scoring a decent no. of telugu , Tamil, kannada (movies all put together).
  Now coming to Deva, people argue he is successful, which is true and doesn't really require any arguement about that. 99% of his songs ,( many times BGM also) are again copied from various sources and I think there should be absolutely no Arguements about that because this is 110% true.
  But my question is does TFM require DEVA to give songs which are copied from other sources almost all the times? Any average MD can produce this kind of stuff , and that is true also, because look at lot of other new MDs majority of them also copy from different sources or atleast get inspiration from others of course no body can come close to Deva ( And he really deserves for this fete, what ever is appropraite for this extra ordinary work of his ). And this is one reason why there are so many new MDs are cropping up with every alternate movie.
  Secondly because of MDs like these lot of times a genuine / truely talented MD go unnoticed or recieve less er recognition and even worse many a times many hidden talents do not even get to the stage of getting a break. I am sure for a population like ours there are so many unrecognised well talented musicians all over India, but the "Bitter Truth " is that even the media (which is supposedly power ful ) both print and the entertainment media do not even bother to expose these kind of copy cats and we pay for them.
  I personally feel that the print media and Radio/TV should give a genuine and fair review and sould be highly critical in reviewing the movies and the music especially revealing the pliagrism and how these average MDs take the take us (the music fans ) for granted and cheat us when we pay them (All the fans) lots of money earned by hard work. I am surprised a decent source of TFM thro' internet like kalapugazh tamil osai gives some really unbelivable reviews about some of the very mediocre music as great music and a the less than average movie like "Gol maal" as one of the best movies and that the Tamil fans did not give it the appropriate reception.
  we hope TFM will give more original and enjoyable music changes in the near future, apartment from IR's and ARR's music
  
  
• From: balaji (@ schubert.crhc.uiuc.edu) on: Sun Nov 22 23:51:16 EST 1998
  
  hari and Observer: you will not be saying the same things that you said, if the compositions that deva stole were yours. there was an interview with pushpavanam kuppusami in kumudam. he was totally pained by the copying of deva & co . his songs which he has painfully collected through some excellent research has been so easily stolen by these MDs (like thanjavur manna eduthu and sevappu selai jinkuchaa). he wouldn't be saying "though it is copied, it won't decrease my level of enjoyment". please don't think of it only from an end user's point of view. copying is a very serious issue. people like IR may brush aside these things, but lesser known composers are really hurt when such things happen. what you say seems to be dangerously leading to a justification of copying , which is wrong.
  
  

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