Topic started by G. Kuppusamy (@ 156.153.255.250) on Wed Nov 15 00:03:37 EST 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
Many threads deal with the differences in IR and ARR songs. Those include differences in composing-style, tune, orchesration, rythm, chords, melody, catchy beats, bgm etc etc. Is there anything common in their music (strictly with respect to cine music, not in their personalities, not even private albums)?
Most of us agree that its the TFM, nowadays, gives better music(in all form) than MDs from other Indian Films. This prompted me to think in this area. Afterall Rahmaan is a successor of Illayaraja. If we can think about some common things in IR and his predecessor MSVs then why cannot about IR and ARR.
Responses:
- Old responses
- From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35)
on: Thu Nov 16 14:59:31 EST 2000
myfan : it is high time you need to get a good "updated" state of art dictionary :)))
if possible, swamiji can you call me - let us fight thru phone. instead of boring others.
:)
- From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201)
on: Thu Nov 16 15:03:49 EST 2000
Yup, and thats exactly what ARR is doing too. Nothing different - Gm7 to C7 (for a F scaled song) transition for example are there in so many Billy Joels songs...But they sound different all the time!!!
How???
Play by rules, but do it differently thats the key...not just "differently"...
If music had no rule, there wouldnt be a word called "progression"...progression means to progress and not JUMP!!!!
jai sreeram!
- From: fan of fan (@ 198.133.22.67)
on: Thu Nov 16 15:04:55 EST 2000
fan:
That's over-simplification of IR's bass. The timing plays an important point. Not only that, even the way you stress or sustain each note matters a lot. This is more difficult and requires much more creativity to achieve subtle impressions than it is to play a loud melodic bass. IR's bass is the perfect complement to the main melody. It doesn't distract you from the song, but emphasizes particular portions. There are plenty of bass techniques and you are misleading the layman into thinking that IR's songs have only robotic bass scores. Downplaying one of IR's strengths is unfair to IR. I don't for a moment believe that you fail to see the beauty of IR's bass. N-ah ! :-)
- From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35)
on: Thu Nov 16 15:05:52 EST 2000
swamij...these days "dosa" and few more new items
is served along with dinner in many marriages...
:)))
Your logic is as though arr does not follow any rules, just plays anything and everything everywhere,
I can only tell you are totally biassed and not ready to see new things. You seem to writeoff new things by a getting into an "athai patti" logic of english classical music. Thats all.
I like arr and ir and you love IR and hate arr thats all about it.
- From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201)
on: Thu Nov 16 15:06:52 EST 2000
Oh fan, i would love to. Maybe in the evening. I need to get back to work...
On a different note, I listened to "Pachai Nirame" for the second time. I listened to it first yesterday!!! very nice song...made me switch lanes without turning to see if theres a car in my blind spot...almost hit him!!!
- From: big time fan of fan (@ 198.133.22.66)
on: Thu Nov 16 15:07:51 EST 2000
"Your logic is as though arr does not follow any rules, just plays anything and everything everywhere"
fan, quick ! make up your mind ! Does ARR follow rules or not ? ;-)
- From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35)
on: Thu Nov 16 15:10:26 EST 2000
aha aha...i am also telling the same...you and swamji are doing the same for arr.
over-simplification of arr's bass (music) due to the IR effect on you.
as swamiji put is (for once) I learnt music from ir scores of the past, today I learn new things from arr. Backstreet boys or any dam today's pop group follow this kind of bass.
This is new, you are still in old school!....
I dont blame you.IR's music is so additive to come out.
- From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201)
on: Thu Nov 16 15:12:02 EST 2000
Fan, u misunderstood me. I like ARR no doubt. I am not biased against anyone. In fact, I find myself not satisfied with the present music scene..not becoz of ARR...but becoz our junta liking ARRs music becoz they think it is the best music they heard so far...
Someday, I wish I would compose (Iam afraid actually) and you people comapare my music to someone else except deva...
- From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35)
on: Thu Nov 16 15:18:02 EST 2000
Swamji thambi...
Let people say what they want...same people told ir is great he is the best. no one could race him out...
As a musician do you agree arr does some good stuff. Ir has done some great work, he adopts some rare W.classical methods, no doubt about it.
I passed (without CUP) all my exams till m.com and 9 grades of piano hearing only his "peacefull" music. But at the same time I also like arrs method of producing music
You say dress made out "Thari" is orinigal and follows all rules in cloth making.. but I say there are new methods to make a quality dress. :))) (my(only)fan hows it :)))
- From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201)
on: Thu Nov 16 15:19:18 EST 2000
Fan, learning an instrument is one thing. Learning music compostion is something else...again sorry if that sounded wrong. There is nothing "COMPLEX" in ARRs bass. By the way what is Complicated music???
- From: fan of fan (@ 198.133.22.74)
on: Thu Nov 16 15:19:37 EST 2000
fan:
My problem with ARR's bass is that it lacks punch. No, I am not delirious :-) ARR's bass lacks the right kind of punch. Sometimes, I feel as if the bass guitar is slipping away in ARR's songs ! Quite often, it plays the same note in a running fashion - for example, in the beginning of "Ennavale" BGM, just before the humming. How imaginative is that ? ARR does that quite often. Also, in a number of songs, the strokes do not match up. He'll pluck it 5 times once, the he'll do it 3 times in the next bar, the he'll play some melody on the bass, then pluck again for 7 times etc etc etc. It looks ominously like Swamiji's "alogorithm" for ARR :-) I still don't understand why that's the pinnacle of creativity ! IMO, it spoils a good number of his songs !
- From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201)
on: Thu Nov 16 15:22:21 EST 2000
Fan, I just want the dress stitched properly...understand, if the dress doesnt cover certain parts of our body, it is not a dress although it looks flashy...
- From: fan of fan (@ 198.133.22.74)
on: Thu Nov 16 15:24:09 EST 2000
ok fan, to soothe your feelings...I still listen to Alaipaayuthe, though I guess that's gone out of fashion for most people :-) ARR is unbeatable today, and I am truly happy for him ! If I didn't like his music so much, I wouldn't bother dissecting it so much, either :-) But, I can't believe that after all these years, I can still drag you into an IR vs ARR fight :-) Whether IR's music is predictable or not, you are definitely predictable :-)))
- From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35)
on: Thu Nov 16 15:30:47 EST 2000
swamji.,..you have asked the same question i have asked...
what is complicated music...?
what is good music....?
(hear the poopokum oosai, VM explains what is good music :)
How do you know or measure the amount the complexity in a score ?
--- as far i am concerned !....
That which impress, surprises me is good music.
Playing and complexity:, some of us can play some instruments, we know the difference bettween complex and easy piece,
still something complex to you might be easy to me, or vice versa!...
but take the mass - how do they judge this ?
"That which impress, surprises and fresh to them is often good music for them."
Ir have might have done lots of classical work agreed. How many of us enjoy a watch that has a tv in it, it is hard to do one..agreed but ?
- From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35)
on: Thu Nov 16 15:34:48 EST 2000
the problem starts when you start shopping with a scale or some other tools and start comparing it one and another completly ignoring the what is good in that.
swamiji ans: nothing is good so i am wearing only kavi...
fan: accepted
:)
- From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201)
on: Thu Nov 16 15:37:50 EST 2000
Well...complexity?...I would say Greshwins "Rhapsody in Blue"...difficult to play, and for one thing dosnt "SHOCK" you, although it mildly surprise...So many things in it I dont know, but can appreciate...
- From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201)
on: Thu Nov 16 15:41:59 EST 2000
Haha..fan..well, u think iam old fashioned? alright, accepted. I still understand the basic laws of physics and I comfortably ride a Roller Coaster becoz I know I am 100% safe in it, not becoz it looks fun & cool from outside. I love the feeling of "Iam safe" but still freaking out....Thats innovation....
- From: seedan autodeskananda (@ 216.190.255.35)
on: Thu Nov 16 15:44:51 EST 2000
yow fan..officala 1 ton velai iruku...inge enna swamiji oda jalasa...
swamji arule arul...
- From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201)
on: Thu Nov 16 15:47:10 EST 2000
Sendru varugiren...paarpom~~~~~
- From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.227)
on: Thu Nov 16 15:54:29 EST 2000
Swamiji,
"freaking out".
USla neenga sonnathukku "R" Rated meaning irukkunnu ninaikkiren!!Ungala thappa purinjikka poranga!-)
- From: hihi:-) (@ 134.124.160.10)
on: Thu Nov 16 17:48:28 EST 2000
yAruppA adhu enpEra izukkaRadhu? onga yArukkum aruL kidaiyAdhu :-))
srinAth, ippAdi katchi mARittiyE :-)))))
- From: JingChuk Swamigal (@ 206.175.176.2)
on: Thu Nov 16 21:53:17 EST 2000
Swamiji
Adhala Paadhala Jeshta Prashadamma!!!
- From: Srinath (@ 24.162.247.103)
on: Thu Nov 16 22:03:40 EST 2000
Arul:
It is still not "Snehithane" that I listen to 7-8 times at a stretch :-) When there is no question of choice here how could I possibly switch loyalties :-)
- From: G. Kuppusamy (@ 156.153.255.130)
on: Fri Nov 17 00:21:16 EST 2000
well good points and counterpoints :-) from swamiji, fan, and his fan. now i feel we are deviating too much from the topic. even though i agree, for showing similarities in IR and ARR, we may have to occasionally deviate from the topic, i still believe we should safely come back to the topic so that we can continue sharing more ideas productively and positively. swamiji, fan and his fan i think we've reached the yellow line of the road so lets get back to our lane for the sake of safety, or else this topic will get ticket (in US sense as well as local sense).
lets be IR in discussing this topic, and not be ARR in discussing this topic. ie. go upto yellow line but come back following the rule dont cross yellow line even though there is no traffic heading from the other side and even if u feel there is a thrill in doing so. hey dont take clue from this last para for another points and counterpoints. i stated just for fun, no mean to underplay or overplay these two great artists.
- From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4)
on: Fri Nov 17 11:28:27 EST 2000
It has been a good digression. Especially, this gem of a statement by Swamiji, "I believe everything in nature (not just beauty) has a structure to it". You Chaotician ? :-)
Not just structure ..it has symmetry as well, IMO.
I
s Picasso drawings in random ? Is the random number generator in software, random ? Why is it always sa ri ga ma pa da ni - sa ni da pa ma ga ri ? Why not a different order ? Just some random thoughts :-)
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