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Is Rahman Village, Carnatic and Background Musically Challenged?

Topic started by Bhagavathar (@ 209.43.73.97) on Sun Oct 29 01:31:55 EDT 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

A great music director should be known for his/her trick on all trades when it comes to music. But AR Rahman is good only in recording crystal clear music. As far other areas are concerned he had failed miserably. Listen to all his village oriented songs same type of digital music. Even Deva and SAR do better job than him. What about BGM he plays the songs repeatedly. Deva does a better job atleast copying from Titanic or BraveHeart. What happened to songs based out of Raagas there also he lacks knowledge. What about his singing style man. Drs recommend his "Vandemataram" to clear Constibation than bringing out patriotism.

Discuss this fake, self promoting and copying star and remove his masquerade.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Prakash (@ 195.99.125.202) on: Tue Nov 7 11:20:29 EST 2000
  
  wuth regards to aposting above that a carnatic based song should bring out nuances in singer's voice-I had been to a pick up my son from school and ther was this music competition going on.
  I had the time to listen to about 5 songs-4 were by raaja.and guess what- a 9th std boy sang "eeramana rojave,ennai parthu moodathe" from Ilamai kaalangal.I think this only serves to prove the point that ARR's songs have nothing much to offer to the singer.
  and in case you are wondering about the 5th song it was ''senyorita,senyorita''from PKP
  
  
• From: chandy (@ 131.230.25.38) on: Tue Nov 7 12:13:44 EST 2000
  
  Bhagavathar :
  
  What do you know about me or my personal contacts in TFM industry? Why pass personal remarks against me? You never answered a single question that was raised by me & others to substantiate ANY of your claims. If you are unable to substantiate your claims and contribute meaningfully to a good discussion here, you'd be better off as a passive observer!!
  
  To substantiate my views, I have heard personally from Nityasree about ARR's carnatic music knowledge. She seems to be quite impressed with ARR. I have read similar views expressed by UnniK in some interviews.
  
  Fan :
  
  Udaya and Hari have both given some definition of classical song.
  
  To sum up their arguments and to add my own,
  
  1. A classical song needs to have some raaga(s) or patterns underlying them
  2. A classical song needs to have traditional instruments associated with it... or other instruments as long as it doesnt interfere with its "classical" nature or flow.
  3. Despite underlying raagaas or patterns, a song should also have a classical tune/flow associated with it.
  3. Most importantly, most songs may not be purely 100% classical in nature, but may vary on the extent of "classical"-ness in them. We need to take the degree to which a song is classical to decide on what is classical and what isnt!!
  
  Many non-classical songs also have some definite raagas or ragga-patterns underlying them. For eg, Otaagatha katiko (gentleman) or hey aiyaa saami (varusham 16) have definite raagas underlying them, but arent 100% pure classical songs as the tunes and instruments arent completely classical in nature. Hence, existence of raaga alone cannot make a song as completely classical!!
  
  Trend raised a good point when he asked if a song should necessarily have one raaaga to qualify as being classical. This need not necessarily be so. Use of combination of raagas (raaga-malikai) and fusion of raagas (mohana kalyani, kalyana vasantham etc) is well accepted and well appreciated practice in carnatic music world. So when keadaram is twisted or when naatakurinji is blended with sahana, that doesnt constitute any major violations from the traditions of classical music. In fact I'd say that it adds to the beauty and shows the richness of the tune!!
  
  G. Kuppuswamy :
  
  Regarding the point on classical albums versus classical songs, my argument was that single/few songs in a album are enough to show that ARR is not deficient in giving classical songs. I didnt agree with Bhagavathar that one needs to look at an ENTIRE album to judge the ability of a MD to create classical songs. Even if ARR hasnt done complete carnatic albums, it ddoesnt mean hes classically deficient. Whatever number of calssical songs he has done (a list was provided by many in this thread) is ample proof that hes classically talented!
  
  chandy
  
  
  
• From: seedan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Tue Nov 7 12:15:18 EST 2000
  
  I had a cat that could sing first 2 lines of the song "meow meow" puna kutti, , this clearly proves arr or ir does not offer any songs for cats.
  
  I hear many saying "It is easy for kids to sing nursery rhyme" like "Eeramana rojave", ok ok. ..
  
  btw:this has not got nothing to do with the above posting. It is purely co-incidental.
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Tue Nov 7 12:15:54 EST 2000
  
  I feel this fighting to be more confusing than educative. I came here to see different views, but I am sorry, I haven't found any. In order to impress(or intimidate???) audience, I found people claiming to be a well educated in music. And to prove their point they stick to using fancy musical terms, which I doubt if they really understand.
  We all know that our music is not documented. It has speread through the word of mouth, so perceptions vary. What I was looking for is only the WHY (meaning their opinions) and not HOW (meaning how it should be).
  Provocation does not (IMO) make one think. It is not a good way to educate someone - becoz I am a musician myself and I didnt learn music by someone telling me how it ought to be. It is self explored and I am still learning.
  
  
• From: Ganga (@ 129.253.193.7) on: Tue Nov 7 12:45:01 EST 2000
  
  Learn the bhagavathar criteria of Novice MD and genius MD from the following two posts of his.
  
  From: Bhagavathar (@ 209.43.57.172) on: Mon Nov 6 16:29:03 EST 2000
  ....................
  "Kannamoochi" song Mixing sahana to a Natakurunji based song what he tried to prove there. ...........
  
  Go and ask any classical musician, they will say only novice MD who doesn't know anything mix and match.
  
  From: Bhagavathar (@ 209.43.57.221) on: Mon Oct 30 22:38:10 EST 2000
  ....................
  But in "Mari Mari Ninae" song in movie Sindu Bairavi originally composed in different Raaga changed altogether to Sarumathi. This shows IR is knowledgable with Raagas. Even Carnatic singers and fans accept he is a genius...........
  
  
  
• From: 2ndstd (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Tue Nov 7 12:54:48 EST 2000
  
  ganga teacher , i have a doubt teacher!...
  can i just subsitute the following words in the posting that you wrote on the board.
  
  replace "Natakurunji" with "originally composed in different Raaga" and "sahana" with "Saramathi"
  if i read the posting again now...
  teacher! dont they sound same...,teacher also i understand the main issue here is "going" from one raga to another raga.
  
  infact IR changed only one raga on his own, but ARR changed 2 different ragas.
  so arr is greator than ir... ve veee veee haiya jolly...enga team winu...
  
  
  
• From: Ganga (@ 129.253.193.7) on: Tue Nov 7 12:59:18 EST 2000
  
  yov 2nd std!!
  Isn't it obvious that the term 'originally composed in different Raaga' means 'I do not know the raaga'. idhu kooda puriyallaiyE. benchu mEla yERi nillu.
  
  
• From: headmaster (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Tue Nov 7 13:07:11 EST 2000
  
  yow ganga teacher! explain properly man....for class to understand, can you explain it further with good examples,
  Dont scold our boys, they are good in comparing analysis. and dont break the benches here you have to pay for it.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: seedan autodeskananda (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Tue Nov 7 13:09:23 EST 2000
  
  Swamiji, solave illai, eppo you learnt music, guru, sukran ellam yaro?
  jai swamiji.
  
  
• From: Ganga (@ 129.253.193.7) on: Tue Nov 7 13:22:07 EST 2000
  
  OK class. Now let us learn what is classical and folk songs from the examples of our bhagavathar friend. He says..
  From: Bhagavathar (@ 209.43.57.172) on: Mon Nov 6 16:29:03 EST 2000
  
  Chandy:
  
  For a change give me some good points on ARR by giving some examples. I want the examples based on albums don't give me just one song from each movie. .......
  .....
  For IR
  classical-Sindhu Bairavi
  folk-Annakili
  Let us take the classical song 'thaNNithotti thEdi vantha kannukkutti naan'. See the beauty of this raaga. Everyone write a small notes on the raaga of this song.
  
  
  
• From: 2ndstd (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Tue Nov 7 13:28:57 EST 2000
  
  ganga teacher oru doubt,
  
  'thaNNithotti ----
  Tell us what does the word "thaNNi" refer here, I ask this because my next bench here says this word makes the song more classical, I differ with him, it is the world "thot ti" that makes it classical. I know few in the class will tell "kannukuti" to be much more classical.
  
  teacher please explain.
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Tue Nov 7 13:32:15 EST 2000
  
  Hmmm...romba nalla paattu. Thanni thotti is the king of song a bhagavathar will sing when he is drunk!
  seeda, enakku music guru yennoda music books. But yennoda only interest is playing...appuram meduva konjam songs compose pannuvom. Neenga unga album release pannitela?
  
  
• From: Ganga (@ 129.253.193.7) on: Tue Nov 7 13:33:55 EST 2000
  
  mandu mandu,
  words do not make it classical. words are by some other classical poet. It is the music that makes it classical. You listen to the music carefully.It is the folk music that is classical here. This is the leading example of an MD who can give Carnatic,folk and village music all in one. Don't you feel ARR is chalenged?
  
  
• From: Ganga (@ 129.253.193.7) on: Tue Nov 7 13:55:18 EST 2000
  
  Class, listen carefully to what our erudite friend G.Kuppusamy show us off here:
  
  From: G. Kuppusamy (@ 156.153.255.250) on: Tue Nov 7 03:58:13 EST 2000
  ....But believe me, about 50-60% of this fighting was very useful to persons like me, they were educative. The provocative words from ur opponent makes you to search and give educative info about music and tfm......
  
  See this is a great way of learning. When Ramu tells Komu 'you are an idiot' then Komu gets provoked and reads about Einstein's theory of relativity and gives educative info about that. Then Komu will tell Ramu 'Now you are a moron'. Now this provokes Ramu...and so on. But the pitiest part is only 50 to 60 % of it helps. The remaining %age evaporates, I guess. Now our friend G Kuppu will tell us how fighting with veecharivaa would help humanity.
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Polappathavan (@ 206.222.96.195) on: Tue Nov 7 14:04:05 EST 2000
  
  hey Ganga,
  Welcome to my gang.
  Polappathavargal aniyin pudhu thondar Ganga ---Vazhga! vazhga!
  
  -Velai Vetti Illathavan
  
  
  

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