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tamil lyrics vs hindi lyrics

Topic started by Amma (@ 202.54.43.173) on Thu Jun 11 08:50:25 EDT 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Does " chanda rey chanda rey" (sapnay) match up to the visual beauty that "vennilavey vennilavey" (minsara kanavu) evokes? For that matter are hindi lyrics of tamil dubbed movies of the same calibre as the original? Or are they better?
Anyway, how ARE they written? Does the director brief both the lyricists on the situation and let them come up with their own lyrics or does one of them write and the other transcreates ? Speculate here....

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Amma's Thambee (@ 202.54.43.188) on: Wed Jun 17 06:37:23 EDT 1998
  
  I think that the title song of the movie "Who am i is better than any song in Tamil or Hindhi.
  we can see the the lullaby flowing in it, which shows us that music transcends all languages
  I guess its a swahili song.
  But definetly better lyrics than Tamil lyrics writters
  
  
• From: Geetha (@ gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk) on: Mon Jun 22 06:12:31 EDT 1998
  
  A friend of mine who understands both Hindi and Tamil heard the Jeans songs and commented that Kannodu had different lyrical meaning to that in Tamil. Apparently it's not as good....Any comments? Thanks in advance.
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ ) on: Wed Dec 1 20:02:09 EST 1999
  
  Enna? Sriram Lakshman, BB, rameshB, Udhaya, ellaarum OdiyaangO. konjam uruppadiyaan topic ai discuss paNNalaam.
  
  Let us cover Dubbing lyrics as well as Stand alone lyrics. Also how mettukku paattu from paattukku mettu has affected both HFM and TFM.
  
  
• From: Kishore (@ unknown-11-167.clorox.com) on: Thu Dec 2 00:50:26 EST 1999
  
  Hmmm....You people are aware that there was life before ARR? Just, kidding - so don't start to huff and puff:-)
  
  There are innumerable hindi songs that have been dubbed/copied into tamil. A select number of tamil songs have been adapted into hindi as well.
  
  In the past, transfer of tamil songs into hindi was generally lyrics-based. e.g. kozhi oru koottile (kuzhanthaiyum deivamum), the varumaiyin niram sigappu songs (zara si zindagi), etc.
  
  For hindi-to-tamil, it's more likely to be just the tune, although the lyrics have also been adapted.
  
  My hypothesis on this is that tamil lyricists - principally kannadasan, pattukottai were much more talented than their hindi contemporaries.
  
  To give a few examples - unless I say o/wise translations are exact matches lyrics wise.
  
  Ustadon ke ustad/(remake) Vallavanukku vallavan:
  milte hi nazar tumse dil ho gaya deewana
  paaradi kanne konjam, paithiyam_aanathu nenjam.
  
  sau baar janam lenge sau baar sanam doonge
  ae jaan-e-wafa phir bhi hum tum na juda honge...
  nooru murai piranthaalum nooru murai iranthalum
  unai pirinthu naan oru naalum irunthathillai...
  
  Even more ancient: aah; this one was made simultaneously in tamil & hindi. Shankar Jaikishen tuned the songs and the lyricists wrote to the tune.
  chhotti si yeh zindaganii re
  chaar din ki jawani teri haay re haay
  gham ki kahani teri...
  minnal pol aagum intha vaazhkaiye
  vaan vil polume ilamai aanathe aam
  thunba kathai unathe....
  
  mughal-e-azam/(dubbed) akbar:
  mohabbat ki jhooti kahani pe roye...
  kanavu kaanum kaatchi yaavum kathai kaaneer aache...
  
  mera saaya/(tune copy) yaar nee:
  naina barse rimjhim rimjhim
  piya tori aavan ki aas...
  Tears poured from my eyes like the rain
  Waiting/desiring for your return...
  naane varuven ingum angum
  yaarendru yaar arivaar...
  
  Since ARR's movies are just dubbed into hindi and hindi composers aren't as good as they used to be, I'm not surprised that the quality is poor. Still chhotti si aasha was a big success. BTW, have you compared Rangeela, Taal, Daud, Sirf tum to the tamil versions? Rangeela's 2 chartbusters are pretty close to each other even in the dubbed tamil version.
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ daecfp02.sprint.com) on: Thu Dec 2 10:31:38 EST 1999
  
  Kishore,
  
  Good insight. Thanks. How about the use of similes and metaphors; standard rhymes; standard phrases.
  
  For example if we accuse VM/TFLyrics of overusing vErvai, jeevan, thenpaandi, .....the same can be said (at least IMO) of sanam, kasam, rub, khudhaa, deevaana,....in Hindi.
  
  Any thoughts/takers?
  
  
• From: Kishore (@ unknown-11-60.ws11.clorox.com) on: Fri Dec 3 00:52:47 EST 1999
  
  I'd go one step higher - the variety in theme we see in tamil is much higher than in hindi. As a gross generalization, probably 80-90% of the songs are about love (loss, happy, longing,...). In tamil, love and non-love (philosophy, samooha karuthugal, camaraderie, comedy etc.) are more or less equal.
  
  IMO, the nuances in feeling/sensibilities are much rarer in hindi - e.g. thangathile oru kurai irunthaalum tharathinil kuraivathundo? in baagappirivinai. The hero (Sivaji) one side of whose body is paralyzed is sad about his condition. The heroine sings this saying that though copper is added to gold, no one thinks any the less of it. Kannadasan's referring to 24 kt gold not being useful - only when you add copper and make it 22kt can you make anything with it.
  
  For the same situation, in the hindi remake Khaandaan: Tumhi meri mandir, tumhi meri puja, tumhi devta ho... You are my temple, You are the one I worship, You are my god.
  
  The hindi original: tujhe pyar karte hain karte rahenge, ke dil banke dil mein dhadhakte rahenge..
  I love you I'll continue to love you, and become the heart of your heart...
  
  The tamil remake: naan malarodu thaniyaaga yen ingu nindren, en maharaani unai kaana ododi vanthen...
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ daecfp01.sprint.com) on: Fri Dec 3 10:17:56 EST 1999
  
  Kishore,
  
  Thanks. Let the flow continue. I always felt that Hindi Film Lyrics were 'off the shelf, standard' permutation of certain overused words. Obviously, there were some exceptions but I echo your feelings about the mix of love vs. non-love lyrics in HFM and TFM.
  
  Looking forward to your continued analysis on this subject.
  
  
• From: thathuvavaathi (@ inehou-pxy02.compaq.com) on: Fri Dec 3 11:54:10 EST 1999
  
  good job Kishore... Please continue the analysis...
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 209.36.218.65) on: Fri Dec 3 16:31:06 EST 1999
  
  This must be the first instance in newtfmpage when a revived thread got value-added the second time around. Thanks a lot for the knowledge, Kishore and RajaG. Please do carry on.
  
  
• From: Radhika (@ ext-proxy.capitalone.com) on: Wed Dec 8 15:59:36 EST 1999
  
  I see Tamil songs has lot of dubble meaning as compared to Hindi. Any comments?
  
  
• From: Radhika (@ ext-proxy.capitalone.com) on: Wed Dec 8 15:59:47 EST 1999
  
  I see Tamil songs has lot of dubble meaning as compared to Hindi. Any comments?
  
  
• From: Sriram Lakshman (@ snfca020-0177.splitrock.net) on: Thu Dec 9 03:41:15 EST 1999
  
  RajaG, even the old Hindi gems had lots of cliches like Shamma jalaana, pyar me jalna and especially parwaana burning itself ie a particular insect (guess it's an insect that seeks light in any form) flying into fire,often being compared to the lovers falling headlong into the fire of love (meaning lovers undergoing the travails of a love relationship:)). Tamil film songs imbibed certain features of mabukkavithai like analogies/uvamais. In HFM, except for a few instances, this is not all that common. In TFM, you find a plethora of wonderful philosophical songs like "Poojjiyaththile oru raajjiyaththai" (with Kannadasan very subtly explaining the philosophy of Advaita) and "Manithan ninaippathuNdu" etc. HFM does not have any song delving into the very mystery of existance even when given an opportunity. Example: Satti suttathadaa in Aalayamani has some wonderful uvamais (erumbuththolai uriththu paarka yaanai vanthathadaa...). The Hindi version in "Aadmi", "aaj puraani raahon se, koyi mujhe aawaaz na de" is very factual and devoid of analogies and depth. It just goes on about the hero stating that he is free from all enfeebling tendencies of the mind, like jealousy etc etc (Aazaad hoon main, ab door hoon saari gunahon se), not much of lyrical beauty. If there is one thing HFM excelled in, it was in describing love and the related sentiments , especially the "Chellamaana oodal & kiNdal". Sharm gairon se huya karthi hai apno se nahin, Sharm hamse karogi to museebath hogi (Tajmahal) (hero singing to his heroine), in short, meaning that shyness has to banished in the presence of your soul-mate..The song starts with the lines "Paav Chchoo lene do phulon ki inayath hogi". This is Shahjahan inviting Mumtaz to step in with a bed of flower spread out. He actually means, allow your feet to touch the flowers and the consequence is that the flowers are going to feel ever greatful to you. Another song, "Tehriye hosh mein aaloon, to chale jaayeega". The hero is so besotted with his mate that he is not exactly in his senses and he playfully tells her to leave only after he regains his normalcy. Some comparisons in old HFM where quite VM-ish, ie abstract ,enjoyable and novel, like the phrase ,"Shabnam muh dothi hai" in the song "Kisina kisi se kabhi na kabhi". The meaning is, even the early morning dew drops (under a complex) would have to go for a face wash to measure up to his girl's beauty.
  
  Bottom line, HFM did justice to certain aspects of life like beauty/love, describing one's character etc. In Devanand and Rajkapoor starrers , you would find atleast one song that explains how happy-go-lucky the hero is and the principles he stands up for. I liked some of those like "Gam aur khushi mein phark na mehsoos ho jahaan, main dil ko us makaam pe laatha chalaa gayaa", I have taken my heart to the stage where the vicissitudes of life have been transcended, put forward poetically ofcourse. Another song, "Dard bhi hame kubool, chain bhi hame kuboo, hum ne har tharah ke phul har me phiroliye". I accept pain, I accept peace too because I have made a garland out of it all and worn it around my neck (pardon my pathetic transaltion, this was the closest I could get to it). There is some decent rhyming and meaning to this song.
  
  
  What do you guys think about Gulzar? I thought he had a penchant for creating new phrases , something similar to VM's "Raaja viyarvai" or KD's "sugamaana vethanai" .
  
  
• From: minu (@ adsl-63-200-47-237.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) on: Fri May 26 13:18:36 EDT 2000
  
  This topic triggers off memories of:
  'Chup chup khade ho zaroor koi baath hai' copied to 'enni enni paarkum bodu inbam kondaaduthey (from vaazhkai)'
  
  Another is 'Khilthe hain guli yahaan' to 'raadhaiyin nenjamae kannanukku sondamae'
  
  Even ARR hasn't stopped it. The song 'Banno rani' from 1947 Earth is a (jazzed up) rip off of 'jeena yahaan marna yahaan'
  
  
• From: riyaz (@ mail.dhiraagu.com.mv) on: Tue May 30 19:40:34 EDT 2000
  
  i'm a great fan of hindi songs.
  my question is how can i get hindi song lyrics with english meaning.
  can u help me?
  
  

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