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COPYING - IN TAMIL FILM HISTORY

Topic started by s.senthilkumar (@ 203.197.154.163) on Mon Jan 24 07:23:36 EST 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

i think "copying" is there for a long time in tamil film history.Here we discuss the tamil songs copied from others.

For a compilation of copied/inspired songs: http://copied.newtfmpage.com

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: vijay (@ 68.51.203.216) on: Fri Feb 22 02:10:25 EST 2002
  
  Karthik, you are doing a great job but make sure you acknowledge TFMDF by mentioning it in bold at the top of your page ;-)) (kidding)
  
  I had mentioned earlier as to how "innarul tharum" from Athma had been inspired by a carnatic composition..well I think CM is one area where more scrutiny might yield more inspirations for TFM.. for example in the song "yaar tharuvaar intha ariyaasanam" from Mahakavi Kaalidass set in the raga Ataana by KMV, the first line is almost note-by-note similiar to the line "thaamasamu seyaka " from the thyagaraja krithi "ramaa naamamu janma rakshaka manthram" set in the same raga although the rest of the song seems to be different.. a case of inspiration maybe but nevertheless, this song sung by TMS is a good one and to the best of my knowledge this is not a commonly used scale in TFM either
  
  
• From: Mr. O (@ 64.105.35.174) on: Fri Feb 22 03:17:26 EST 2002
  
  Vijay, all songs I know in Atana raagam have that opening phrase as a signature for atana. Include Papanasam Sivam's 'kanaka sabApathikku' in the list of Carnatic songs in atana with a similar start and MSV-TKR's 'varugirAr unnaiththEdi' from thangappathumai to the list of film songs :)).
  
  
• From: Anyway! (@ 65.56.137.247) on: Fri Feb 22 03:50:44 EST 2002
  
  Karthik: you'r saying ARR does not cut and paste two different tunes and make a third song?
  
  TaKE this one: taramapap tarampapa song (jodi?)
  
  the pallavi is of course the MKTB song of the 50s, then the tarampamapam is a famous famous very famouse Tango waltz theme straight lift! i will give you all the names very soon.
  
  another ARR song has the INXS's rhythm for their song Devil Inside. Of course, this is routine for ARR to copy rhythms, so also is the tunes lifted. What Roja Roja of Kaadhalar Dhinam is a pallavi lifted from MSV's famous Chippi Irukkudu. I mean, we can argue so many things here that he did he did that. But, when you are having a web site trying to prove things, you cannot just go and pick out all the guys and leave ARR alone with his copied rhythms. Take a look at evidences i have given once again for the Taj mahal song. I am surprised that you still did not get the Taj Mahal song, which is a poor poor contrived effort to blend 3 extremely popular western hits. Those 3 songs were milestone hits in the careers of Tear for Fears, Michael Bolton and Phill Collins.
  
  However, don't get annoyed. Your doing great work!
  
  
  
• From: Anyway again! (@ 65.56.137.247) on: Fri Feb 22 04:06:53 EST 2002
  
  Bharath, I do agree with your observation. But, we are talking about originals copied or contrived or taken as a starting point to a significant extent. I perceive a lot more tricks done by IR, for instance, he uses the same pattern in its many variations. Eg: Vaanam Kiley Vandal Yenna; Engey Endhan kaadali; Ilamai Idho Idho; Andha Naal Nyabagam Ippa Thaan palithadu; and so many others. but, each of these are fantastic numbers.
  
  And, that is there with every composer. MSV or Salil Choudhury (very significant in his case, yet each song is unique)
  
  But, I have not heard of a cut and paste artiste like ARR tyring to fool music savvy listeners like me. he may fool Karthik and kaathavarayan of chindadripeta or kuberan or kothavalcchavadi. but not me!
  
  By the way, just not to upset Karthik here: Kaadhal Vanthiruchu of Kalyanraman, the entire pallavi is a copy of a western song of the 70s. I don't have the name. sorry. But, the 5 or 6 copies of IR were played out by radio ceylon in those days and IR was very sincere after that in not copying any more themes from outside. Greatest is that to date, I have not come across a single interlude violins or prelude that IR may have copied from western classical. But, our ARR is not that conscientious! That one great theme he attempted for the second interlude for tarampapam tarampapam is actually a straight forward inspiration from Vivaldi's four seasons!!!!!!
  
  
• From: vhp (@ 66.65.25.220) on: Sat Feb 23 21:21:03 EST 2002
  
  There are number of Old Tamil songs lifted from Hindi and Bengali..numbers based on Hindustani Classical. most numbers by Salil Chowdhry,Shankar Jaikishan, SDB and Madan Mohan.
  
  
• From: Ravana (@ 68.58.126.40) on: Sun Feb 24 20:11:30 EST 2002
  
  Friends:
  
  Have you listened to "Markazhi Poovae" song from May Madham? This songs is a direct lift from Subrapatham. Music none other than ARR synonmous to copy.
  
  
• From: Srini (@ 213.42.1.245) on: Mon Feb 25 06:56:39 EST 2002
  
  Guys
  
  You must have heard 'Ennadi Rakamma', 'Ennadi Muniamma', Otha ruba tharen(Kushbu dance song).
  
  Try singing these songs together. Pallavi from one, Anupallavi from another & charanam from another. Sing it in any order. It all fits beautifully.
  
  I had good fun trying this in a 5 rupees 'pi pi' from the platform.
  
  
• From: TFM fan (@ 203.127.32.40) on: Mon Feb 25 07:15:39 EST 2002
  
  some new ones...
  
  1) film - Daya
  song - "Dayanna yaaru therinjikanum ooru"
  Md - Bharatwaj
  original - "Maina Maina Maaman pudicha maina"
  
  2) film - Charlie Chaplin
  song - "Ava kanna paatha aiyyo amma "
  Md - barani
  similar to -"Maani iru kangal konda maane maane"
  
  
• From: TFM fan (@ 203.127.32.40) on: Mon Feb 25 07:20:23 EST 2002
  
  And a good one ...
  
  " Kannaale meiyya meiyya, ulle oru uyya uyya, neelaya maiya"
  
  from alli thantha vaanam ( MD vidyasagar )is exactly same as
  
  "Zara thasveer se thoo, nikal ke saamne aa, meri mehbooba"
  
  
• From: Its Me (@ 192.11.188.113) on: Mon Feb 25 08:14:38 EST 2002
  
  Srini,
  Its been known for a long time that "otha rooba thaaren" is a lift from "ennadi muniyamma", which in turn could be a folk tune. But as many people like "anyway" "plsbemoreobjective" believe that lifting from Carnatic and Folk songs doesnt amount to copying ( especially when the MD happens to be IR ), many songs like this are pardoned.
  A song qualifies as a lift only if it satisfies the following pre-conditions:
  
  1) It should not be an IR song ( coz he is god and he is beyond the worldly critical reviews )
  2) The source should be non-indian.
  
  But if it so happens that IR lifts something from a non-indian source, you must use the following argument:
  
  IR is just "teaching" the original composer how the songs should have been composed, compared to how it has been done. He just beautifies the otherwise ugly composition.
  
  Anyway ( @65.56.137.247 ),
  
  Most of the composers in the Western World use the commercially available, non-copyrighted rhythms and loops. As mentioned, ARR has also done that in 5 or 6 songs. The beats of "telephone manipol" is one example. Actually the original is not from "all that she wants". It was just a commercially available loop which both the composers happened to use.
  But 95% of the times, ARR composes his own bass and rhythm loops.
  
  But if u still insist its a copy, then what about the old & cliched tabla & dholak rhythms in the background which IR & many other composers use in most of their songs. Arent these rhythm patterns in vogue since time immemorial ??? Does that amount to copying ?
  
  TFM fan,
  
  i recently happened to hear the pandiyarajan song you mentioned, "Ponna petha appanukkellam remand aiyya remandu ". Yep, its exactly same as "Kuruvi kadicha koiyya palam kondu vandhu tharava" from Azhagi. I think the original composer is Shankar-ganesh but im not sure.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 68.51.203.216) on: Tue Feb 26 01:00:30 EST 2002
  
  who was the MD for the Paandyarajan starrer "Valli vara pora"? there was a song in that movie which was copied from "naa jane kyun" from chotti si baath sung by Lata..
  
  
• From: Karthik S (@ 164.164.82.29) on: Tue Feb 26 22:13:19 EST 2002
  
  Tamil composer Deva sure deserves a pat in the pack! For bringing into India so many world music acts! Right from Ofra Haza to rare songs of Dr Alban and so on! Now its Portugese 'Fado' singer Dulce Pontes. The song in question, 'Cancao do mar' has been lifted in the recent Tamil movie starring Vijay and Jyotika, Kushi in the song 'Oh vennila' (surprisingly while I've heard most other songs in this movie, I have never heard this song to this date! But its indeed part of the soundtrack!). Incidentally, 'Cancao do mar' was also used in the OST of the Richard Gere starrer Primal Fear! Listen to them, it sure makes one hell of an interesting inspiration!
  
  http://www.iespana.es/i2fs/
  
  
• From: Karthik S (@ 164.164.82.29) on: Tue Feb 26 22:15:51 EST 2002
  
  That should be 'pat in the back' :-)
  
  
• From: Kupps (@ 156.153.255.134) on: Wed Feb 27 00:52:49 EST 2002
  
  Karthik S,
  
  is it pat in the back or kick on the back?
  
  
• From: Karthik S (@ 164.164.82.29) on: Wed Feb 27 01:11:20 EST 2002
  
  Pat on the back from me for introducing me to Dulce Pontes! And also to Ofra Haza's music!
  
  Maybe people who know Dulce and Ofra might want to kick him in his butt!
  
  :-)
  
  
• From: Kupps (@ 156.153.255.134) on: Wed Feb 27 01:12:39 EST 2002
  
  :-))
  
  
• From: O_IS_G (@ 193.188.97.152) on: Wed Feb 27 04:47:08 EST 2002
  
  Karthik,
  
  You immediately need a change of profession.
  
  I suggest you take up consultancy work for Deva.I am sure that would be profitable to both the parties.He must be doing atleast 30 movies a year .At an average of 1.5 Ml per movie he must be making a handy sum.Following can be the modular billing pattern based on his fees:
  1.Full song -All modules 45%+VAT
  2.Only Pallavi - module 35%+VAT
  3.Charanams (Both)- 30%+VAT
  4.Two different charanms 40%+VAT
  5.Humming/Chorus modules 15%+VAT
  6.Interludes Module
  WCM 10%+VAT
  Jazz 20%+VAT
  Rock 5%+VAT
  Spanish 15%+VAT
  Mexican 10%+VAT
  7.Rhythm pattern
  Dr.Alban 15%+VAT
  Other loops 20%+VAT
  I am sure he would be delighted to see your database of songs.Senjotru Kadan theerka ,you may even exclude his name from your deadly page.
  
  If Sirpy has more films, then, increase your client base or even move over to him, for Deva might think of giving originals once in a while.With Sirpy no such problems.
  
  SAR does not need you.He has methods to sort out his own "MALADY".
  
  Sanjeev Darshan,NS and Anu Mallik might also show keen interest.
  
  If you are serious, i shall send my resume.
  
  
• From: Karthik S (@ 164.164.82.29) on: Wed Feb 27 05:05:38 EST 2002
  
  O is G:
  
  ROTFL! That VAT part was the best!
  
  

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