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COPYING - IN TAMIL FILM HISTORY

Topic started by s.senthilkumar (@ 203.197.154.163) on Mon Jan 24 07:23:36 EST 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

i think "copying" is there for a long time in tamil film history.Here we discuss the tamil songs copied from others.

For a compilation of copied/inspired songs: http://copied.newtfmpage.com

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Bharath (@ 156.153.255.126) on: Wed Feb 20 15:56:30 EST 2002
  
  a new movie called samurai has been released
  
  there is a song called "adithadi appatha" where some parts of guitar interludes have been borrowed shamelessly from MJ's Ghosts..
  
  
• From: Karthik S (@ 164.164.82.29) on: Wed Feb 20 23:11:41 EST 2002
  
  The latest Jatin Lalit release, Soch has a song 'hasata hai rulata hai' which has generous traces of Citizen's 'Autsralia desam varai'. If indeed the tamil song is Deva's original, it'd be a proud moment in Deva's life.
  
  But most probably both the songs are inspired by one common source. I've uploaded both the songs in my site...could anybody listen to them and identify the original? Please do let me know if you manage to trace the source!
  
  
• From: Karthik S (@ 164.164.82.29) on: Wed Feb 20 23:12:25 EST 2002
  
  Forgot to add my site's URL...
  
  http://www.iespana.es/i2fs/
  
  
• From: e.hari (@ 138.89.105.83) on: Thu Feb 21 00:20:24 EST 2002
  
  Karthik S.
  What?. Deva's proud moment is, when jatin lalit copied his song?. U r kidding right.
  
  
• From: Karthik S (@ 164.164.82.29) on: Thu Feb 21 00:54:49 EST 2002
  
  e.hari...
  
  Of course :-)
  
  
• From: plsbemoreobjective (@ 65.58.45.132) on: Thu Feb 21 01:32:39 EST 2002
  
  Karthik, while at it, you don't seem to provide any supporting evidence of ARR's many 'lifts' or 'elevated' songs. someone pointed out this: taj mahal's Tharisal Karisal etc... is a combination of 3 western songs: first portion is I believe by Tears for Fears; second portion is a song sung by Michael Bolton I will be there etc... third portion is inspired by Phil Collins song in the album Invisible Touch "Brazilian" if i remember right. note that down and you will see you've got a lot more about ARR than other composers! You've got IR's copies which are just about 3 or 4 and they more developed versions than the originals. (darling, darling; then aaha vanthiruchu; then pon malargalin azhaipidazh) what else? ARR' song in Ratchagan Idhu Kanava is also heavily inspired from a theme music in the movie Tom Jones (1965). more later!
  
  
• From: Karthik S (@ 164.164.82.29) on: Thu Feb 21 02:20:12 EST 2002
  
  plsbemoreobjective:
  
  Let me try to get to the bottom of this Tom Jones themes message which has long plagued ARR! Somebody posted a version of the theme ripped from the VHS an year or so back. That sounded nothing like the Ratchagan number.
  
  After a long search I got the list of tracks in Tom Jones...
  
  Track listing
  
  1. Main Title
  2. Love Theme From "Tom Jones"
  3. Sylvan Misadventures
  4. Wine And Women
  5. The Grim Guardians Of Justice
  6. Trying Times
  7. The Tom Jones Strut
  8. Ladies Are Irresistible
  9. Love Theme From "Tom Jones" - Variations
  10. Born For Trouble
  11. Tom Strikes Again
  12. Lean Days
  13. I Love You, Sophie Western
  14. Britannia Rules
  15. If He Swing By The String
  16. The Squire Steps In
  17. End Title
  
  I'm not sure if I can manage to listen/collect these tracks, even getting this list was incredibly difficult. But I personally think there is absolutely no truth in this allegation. If you can manage an audio clip of the track which inspired the Ratchagan song, nothing like it!
  
  Have hrd Micheal Bolton's song and Genesis's The Brazilian. No link to the Taj Mahal song IMO. Lemme know the song name of the Tears for fears number.
  
  
• From: Karthik S (@ 164.164.82.29) on: Thu Feb 21 02:28:49 EST 2002
  
  I'm looking in specific for the 'Love theme' in the above list which could be the potential original! Lemme know if somebody gets it!
  
  
• From: Raghu (@ 212.2.14.241) on: Thu Feb 21 04:49:32 EST 2002
  
  Small digression;
  
  4 get about copying in Tamil -film music, 4 a moment & think about how Tamil music is copied in Hindi, an example listen 2 "Teri liye janam", by SPB+Chitra in a film called "Suhaag (Ajay devgan, Akshay Kumar)", the music was composed by Anand Miland, he did not compose it, but instead COPYIED ARR's "Khadhal rojave", from Roja. Listen to these two songs, u will find about 90% similarities amongst these two songs.
  
  BTW, Roja was released in 1992, while suhaag was released in 1994, so that shows who copied whom
  
  
  
  
• From: Karthik S (@ 164.164.82.29) on: Thu Feb 21 05:20:54 EST 2002
  
  Raghu,
  
  There's absolutely no point talking about Anand Milind. They have made a very successful career almost entirely out of South Indian songs - mostly IR's. They even copied a fairly old 'aasaya kaathula thoothu vittu' number from Johnny in a 90s movie Angrakshak as 'dil mera udhaas hai'! Their list will just go on and on!
  
  
• From: AVR (@ 143.127.3.10) on: Thu Feb 21 05:22:18 EST 2002
  
  raghu - yes u r quite right, many tamil tunes have been copied in Hindi. In fact, Anand Milind have said several times that they are proud to copy from IR (and some IR fans actually mention this point as a feather in IR's cap :-)). Even Kalyanji Anandji copied ilayanila (became "neele neele ambar par") - maybe twas their revenge on IR for taking their "kasme vaade" :-))))
  
  There is a BGM piece that even the great RDB took from IR.
  
  Apart from that, SG have the reputation of copying several Hindi tunes lock,stock and barrel :-)
  
  
• From: Raghu (@ 212.2.14.241) on: Thu Feb 21 05:30:20 EST 2002
  
  AVR;
  
  ">>There is a BGM piece that even the great RDB took from IR<<", yes I have heard about this song as well, was it "SHenbahame, shenbahame", by asha?
  
  I also agree with u, that SG & S.A.Rajkumar also copied from Hindi, not 2 mention our ever green copying super star's of South DEVA & SIRPY.
  
  
• From: Isaipriyan (@ 157.95.211.50) on: Thu Feb 21 11:16:33 EST 2002
  
  Has anybody in hindi imported any of the tunes of MSV?
  If somebody could name a few HIT ones, that'll be great!!
  
  
• From: oosai (@ 63.115.132.3) on: Thu Feb 21 13:35:11 EST 2002
  
  Gladiator BGM surutitaaru ARR for KM
  
  
• From: NAGARAJAN (@ 209.58.26.20) on: Thu Feb 21 14:48:58 EST 2002
  
  Palum Pazhamum was taken in Hindi. Direction is by Bhim Singh - Music by Shankar Jaikishan or Naushad. Naan Pesa Ninaippadhellam'- this song's last line in each stanza is taken in the hindi film song for the same situation.
  
  
• From: plsbemoreobjective (@ 166.90.68.17) on: Thu Feb 21 15:08:59 EST 2002
  
  Karthik, sorry pal: You don't have the ear for the truth. listen again for the taj mahal song. It is a concatenation of 3 famous famous compositions! Hear it again. I will try to post a clip soon.
  
  Of course ARR is not going to just copy and paste. He will fudge the real notes and fool the listener. the Tom Jones theme is when Sophie Western is recovering from her fall from a horseback ride. I think it is 12 or 13. It is the same piano theme exactly the same. You can get the video tape. Karthik, one request please remove all that bs about IR 'copying' stuff. Those are not copying. Those are completely restructuring the originals, maybe showing a better to have composed the originals. By the way, the veetukku veetukku is not any way close to the 25th symphony. Listen to the beginning of the 25 the symphony again. what crap is that man!
  
  IR rate of inspiration to originals is like .00001% but ARR's i tell you virtually 20% of all his songs is straight lifts or simply some changing of notes of very famous tunes. Take the other ratchagan song: i think it is the nursery rhyme Old Macdonald had a farm, eeya eeya yo etc... have you forgotten that? okay, this one has a good charanam. but, look at the next 50%. variations of his own songs! only 30% seemed really original
  
  
• From: Bharath (@ 156.153.255.134) on: Thu Feb 21 15:35:38 EST 2002
  
  plsbemoreobjective (@ 166.90.68.17)
  
  I think ARR's rate of inspirations to originals is like .00000001% and IT like 35-40%. Among the remaining 60% 30 % is a recylce of the other 30% and among the 30% he rehashes old bharathiar songs so about 25-27% of his is only original..
  
  IR basically converts western sounding songs to tamil ones by changing the instrument from drums to dappankuthu thats why he sounds different
  
  watch & listen closely u will know!
  
  
• From: Karthik S (@ 164.164.82.29) on: Thu Feb 21 21:45:43 EST 2002
  
  plsbemoreobjective:
  
  If you're talking about restructuring in case of IR, you are talking about the same with ARR too. He does that too. I cannot find any blatant/ direct rip offs in ARR's tunes yet. I agree IR's lifts are very imaginative and beautiful and would not like to call them lift at all, but they are inspirations, at the end of the day.
  
  Lemme try listening to the Bolton number and Genesis number again and come back.
  
  
• From: Karthik S (@ 164.164.82.29) on: Thu Feb 21 22:53:01 EST 2002
  
  Have heard Tears for fears' I Believe, Michael Bolton's I will be there and Genesis/Phil Collins' The Brazilian pretty well by now. All three (together or alone) have nothing to do with Taj Mahal's Karisal Tharisal. Let me post the audio clips and see if somebody else could make out any similarity.
  
  But the very idea that ARR would spend his time trying to fudge 3 different tunes, restructure them so that Kandasami and Ramamurthy of Thandyarpet and Anna Nagar will not find out the source is, to say the least, ridiculous!
  
  Kandasami and Ramamurthy will immediately identify Cancione et Danza as the source of Murattu Kaalai's 'entha poovilum' 'cos the restructuring there is minimal and the inspiration is mighty apparent.
  
  If the Taj Mahal lift (as you say) could be identified only by you and not by anybody else, which others would vouch for once the song clips are made public) I guess, there is no lift at all!
  
  But all this sarcasm would not stop me from looking for the Tom Jones clip. I've seen this allegation quite often and would surely like to get to the bottom of this. But as usual, innocent, until proved guilty!
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.25.204) on: Thu Feb 21 23:33:15 EST 2002
  
  Cancione et Danza as the source of Murattu Kaalai's ?
  
  I thought it was Antonio ruiz pipo.
  
  
• From: Karthik S (@ 164.164.82.29) on: Fri Feb 22 00:32:45 EST 2002
  
  MS:
  
  It is Antonio Ruiz Pipo. He's the composer. The song in question is called 'Cancione et Danza'!
  
  Check out the IR section my site.
  http://www.iespana.es/i2fs/
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 64.173.9.74) on: Fri Feb 22 01:13:51 EST 2002
  
  Karthik you are doing a great job. Please do not get dragged into arguments and waste your energy. I am pretty sure there will be ardent fans who might misunderstand certain things and get agitated. You have to keep a scientific outlook and go on with your stuff. Your anger/irritation is understandable, but like I said dont let it bother you.
  
  

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