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IR-ARR usage of instruments

Topic started by cram (@ 206.103.12.102) on Sat Apr 15 02:38:14 EDT 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

get ready for another round, guys (timepass panna venaam:-))]. no IR or ARR bashing, please, muthallaye sollitten. let's just discuss how each of them has used various instruments. for instance, IR's use of acoustic guitar is unparalleled, while ARR rarely uses it. similarly, IR `pales' before ARR when it comes to electric guitar or keyboards (strictly IMHO, everyone's welcome to disagree). start shooting.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Krishnamurthy (@ esboaah.ceatlabs.okstate.edu) on: Thu May 25 10:01:14 EDT 2000
  
  Interesting use of drums / mirudangam in "kavidhai thedungal kaviyil..." from punnagai mannan. Its really innovative.
  
  
• From: Krishnan (@ fw2.torolab.ibm.com) on: Thu May 25 11:05:20 EDT 2000
  
  dhan, I agree with Dorai on "Mangalyam thandhunane". It really did not belong to that place. But I was impressed with the overall BGM of this movie. I noticed that a lot of solo violin has been used and it was pretty good & effective.
  
  The two odd things that struck me immediately in the movie was 1) BGM for "Mangaly..." 2) Doctor saying "TIG". I can't imagine a doctor using a acronym for such a serious case. Agreed that nowadays there are lots of acronym used, but this was too much IMO. It boiled down the complete seriousness (was that the intention ?).
  
  Krishnan.
  
  
• From: Aditya (@ attcat.ds-us.com) on: Thu May 25 13:55:00 EDT 2000
  
  In my opinion, IR was always interested to see/shape him as one of those western classical composers like mozart, beethoven etc., Well I believe that he's indeed bestowed with all kinds of creativity to be a Global Maestro. In order for him to present/satisfy his interests, film music is the best one after all. In his film music, he always used the instruments which are usually part of any western classical concerts - Violin, Viola, Piano, Trumpets, Trombone, Flute and Aria kind of Chorus. He used those instruments in his songs to learn/practice/experiment and graduate his music talents to shape into what it's today. This is how he grew up till today and of what we will appreciate forever as we too grew up with him.
  
  Undoubtedly ARR is bestowed with extraordinary talents - more importantly with the facilities to work better. Depending on what he is interested to see himself in future( which seems to be in state of flux as of today ), he will learn/experiment/practice with his film songs. And so we indeed see him changing or making music closer to something what we heard. However there's an innate talent in him to create rhythm based melodies. Well we have to understand that he comes from jingles background and so it is a never ending change - though some are good. In summary, ARR needs to use Digital Instruments before he decides to settle in something.
  
  However this is what I feel - If there are any corrections, I will consider.
  
  Aditya
  
  
• From: anand rajaram (@ 202.188.202.216) on: Sun May 28 16:02:55 EDT 2000
  
  the most important difference between ar rahman and other new music directors (from ilayaraja onwards) is the way ar's music is very well balanced(in other terms well engineered sound ).the vocals ,instruments and everything else is on the same consistant level(volume).thanks to Mr Sridhar;ar's sound engineer.The final sound that you hear is exceptional in quality.IR is a really one of the greatest music directors but unfortunately a bad sound engineer.but listen to the sound engineering in hey ram.it is really really excellent in 24 dts.this is the first time that his music is totally balanced and it was worth paying for the cd.congrats !!
  hopefully he will stick to this concept and encourage other young md's to follow suit!!!!
  
  
• From: kiru (@ adsl-63-202-175-162.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) on: Sun May 28 21:16:05 EDT 2000
  
  Anand,
  Not all IR's songs have to be mixed the same way. Some of his need Jazz vocal style mixing, some pop style and some classical style. Yes, the levels are very bad in most of his songs. That is the reason why 'recording centers' boosted the bass and treble before recording them on tapes. Recent songs do not have 'space' around instruments like synth/sequencer drums. Also, my suspicion is most of IR's recording were live stereo mix. In the case of ARR, mixing various tracks to get the stereo is a much more elaborate and time consuming process. Because of this he is able to get a better overall sound. I am told IR recorded two or more songs per day !! I dont know what kind of sound engineering one can expect in this practice :(
  BTW, IR does not have to be sound engineer, do you think all these teen sensations putting out pop albums know anything? (including music :)). Still IR needs to take the responsibility as he is the one who is taking the money for the whole music output.
  
  
• From: eden (@ 61.1.250.145) on: Mon May 29 01:25:02 EDT 2000
  
  Kiru!
  While some criticism on the recording quality of IR's earlier efforts is quite in place, repeatedly flogging it in every thread is quite uncalled for! FYI, for at least a decade, I haven't paid IR anything, not even a single pie, for listening to all those gems of him, from SLBC and other broadcast stations, including Vividh Bharathi! I'm 100% sure this is the case with 95% of TFM lovers till early 90's. Some would have chosen to `record' on TDK cassettes and listen, even then, they have paid him literally nothing except a miniscule percentage of the cost of the LP record, that the recording center fellow has ordered!
  
  Then why make all this noise about Raja taking money and all? He got paid (that too disproportionately lower amounts) by the fellows who made millions with the movie in the box office.. The meagre royalty he got through the LP/echo cassette sales is anyday not a real compensation to the mastery of Raja!
  
  Today's fellows are focussing on marketing the music and minting money out of it...and hence the extensive sound recording, which is not even a percentage of the revenues generated by CD sales who are priced at aniyAyA levels...They can definitely afford it and if they fail, you can question and flog them....
  
  But not Raja, one to whom many of us are indebted for ever, for the single reason that what we hear and infer as music is due to the taste he developed in TN, and hence your repeated postings, IMHO, are totally uncalled for!
  
  
• From: eden (@ 61.1.250.145) on: Mon May 29 01:34:03 EDT 2000
  
  Another thing, Kiru, if you follow some economics, $/Rs comparison and all, Raja, even during his peak, wouldn't have been making the money an average Indian Er or Dr had been making at that time in the US...and you accuse him of taking the money for whole output (as if he has never paid his sound artistes and engineers kept everything in his pocket)...as if the creativity were something free and only the sound engg. is all that one pays for...
  
  Very nice appreciation for a great brain from our neighborhood!
  
  
• From: csg (@ 202.144.10.93) on: Mon May 29 04:55:29 EDT 2000
  
  according to me ir has used tabla in most of his songs, but i think usege of tabla in arr's songs are very rare.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ adsl-63-205-185-114.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) on: Mon May 29 15:17:44 EDT 2000
  
  Eden,
  I think your anger is misplaced. In the case of TFM Music Direction, the producer pays the MD a lumpsum amount for delivering finished songs and BGM tracks. The producer then sells the rights to the songs. The MD never gets royalty. But his rates go up if he can sell more cassettes/CDs. This is the reason why I mentioned IR is responsible for sound engineering also (indirectly). I am a fan of IR's music and I feel bad if I cannot listen to his songs because of sound engineering. I am not just complaining. I am trying to see what is the difference between IR and ARR's songs in terms of sound engineering. I am also trying to communicate my findings to IR.
  
  If you want you can send me email I can tell you how I am modifying WAV files and rewriting them to demonstrate my findings.
  
  
• From: eden (@ 61.1.250.236) on: Mon May 29 23:45:31 EDT 2000
  
  Kiru!
  I really appreciate your efforts in upgrading the quality of recordings in TFM and the love for IR's music...the only offensive thing about your posting was the money part which could have been avoided in a public forum, which IMHO had a wrong kind of tone..."this guy stashes away all the money, without bothering about the quality of overall output" kind of a message is what the posting conveys to DF'ers and I believe my indignation was not quite out of place...
  
  I too appreciate improvements (due to ingenuity, technology etc.) and prefer to listen to better acoustics, but the prime reason for me to listening to any music is not the quality of recording but the musical creativity...that creates indelible impression even when heard amidst the noise of a bus engine roaring...EdhO mOham and pon mAlaippozhudhu appeal to me more than any of the biggest hits of ARR with `nice sounds'...
  
  Anyway, please carry on with your good efforts in sound tech. & peace!
  
  
• From: Subbu (@ 192.39.227.151) on: Tue May 30 09:31:28 EDT 2000
  
  Just got the new albums and listened to them. Trying to compare IR/ARR music with these.
  
  IR - Karisakaatu poove/Kanna Unnai thaedukiraen
  ARR - Kandu kondaen.../ Alai paayuthae
  
  1. Tune - IR excels in most of the songs. ARR - not able find any life/tune - in most of the songs except 'Snaegidhanae' / 'Alaipaayuthae'. All others have been just developed over certain rhythm. Obviously 'Alaipayuuthae' is the best - may be because the basic tune is not from ARR. He has just done some DJ work with rhythm box/'singi'.
  
  2. Recording - ARR excels. IR - not good. ARR's usage of expert sound engineers / remix vidwans like praveen mani / Rajit barot pays good results. Bass guitar sounds better. IR needs lot of improvement in recording - still sounds like early 90's.
  
  3. Arrangement / music content - IR excels. ARR finds shelter behind the so called instrument experts (violin sriram, sarangi ...). Most of the prelude / interlude of IR's songs are laced with beautiful ornamentation with multiple layers of melody each vying for the listener's attention. But still the rhythm section sounds very lifeless. Too much of artificial drum sound becomes a minus point. The songs of ARR lack the depth of music content - but he manages to keep the interest by giving strange sounds of unexpected instruments then and there. At the end, ARR's hardwork at mixing is visible - though the content is not very satisfying.
  
  Though not directly connected with the discussion here, One more point I noted - IR's voice sounds very young (can't believe that he is 57 years !).
  
  
• From: pradeep (@ hybrid-024-221-070-185.detroit.speedchoice.com) on: Tue May 30 11:22:21 EDT 2000
  
  i agree with subbu's views after comparing latest hits from IR and ARR.In todays films picturisation of the songs takes much time and the directors pay much attn. towards it.But when u see 80's IR's hits u'll find that no hard work is done for the pic. of songs,even then most songs became sensational hits and its good to see or hear them.ARR cant beat IRs usage of violin and flute.Moreover music is just not songs.IR creates a magic in re-recording in each of his films(ex:mouna ragam,veedu,kadhalukku mariyadhai).
  Totally IR is a library,ARR is a pocket novel.
  
  

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