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ARR's experiments

Topic started by yaaro (@ ac9f1293.ipt.aol.com) on Mon Aug 13 16:57:46 EDT 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

some chaps seem to think ARR has done many experiments.please enlighten us!

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: yaaro (@ 172.188.194.180) on: Sun Oct 14 06:50:04 EDT 2001
  
  oops sorry for so many typos-i am in a hurry going out...
  
  
• From: marcel (@ 212.186.40.21) on: Mon Oct 15 14:00:00 EDT 2001
  
  yaaro,
  
  sorry that i'm new here, i didn't think that one has to read all the other topics of this discussion forum in this site to just write an answer to one topic.
  anyway, i know now what a HCIRF is, thanks.
  u know, really, i respect illayaraja, actually i only know his malayalam albums, those he has done in the nineties...there are really some good ones among them, like 'kalapani', 'yaathramozhi' or the recent 'kochu kochu santhosangal'. (by the way, are u tamilian? do u also hear illayaraja's songs in other languages, like now in malayalam? hmm...as a HCIRF u should)
  and apart from my own experiences with the illayaraja of the nineties in malayalam, i have heard a lot, lot, lot great things about his music in the seventies and in the eighties (yes, there is one song of his i love, really love, and that is 'thenpandi cheemayile' from nayagan, great song!), but okay, i don't want to go too deep into that...
  want i would like to say is, okay, u are a HCIRF or whatever, but that doesn't mean that u should not also respect other composers and their experiments....really, if one reads the sentence with which u started this topic, "some chaps seem to think ARR has done many experiments.please enlighten us!" then i felt like giving u a slap into ur arrogant face....sorry man, but that was my true feeling...i mean, okay, illayaraja is a living legend, he has gone a long, long way, but arr is still young, only about 10 years in this field, and in my opinion, he has done that special thing to indian music which illayaraja had done when he came (in the seventies i think? right?), and now what's wrong in it when one acknowledges the others' archievements? why one has to grumble 'illayaraja has done this and this, and now what has ur arr done?'? respect to those who deserve it!
  illayaraja has done this, and arr has done that, it's as simple as that...both have done something really good to indian music, and let's just be happy that they have done it, for us.
  no need of comparing and discrediting...
  okay, yaaro?
  
  and sorry, i didn't read ur examples for IR's experiments...i couldn't find them...
  but if u mean those examples concerning the compositions of arr, then i'm sorry to say that i'm not an expert in it, cause my actually only a listener and have less knowledge of actual music and music composing. but i know a lot of people who would surely like to discuss about arr's musical experiments with u. one is a guy called gopal srinivasan, he is the moderator of the yahoo! group 'arrfans', u can discuss this topic in this group, and others are ranojoy, ghulam and so on...actually there are a lot of them who also have the music knowledge required to discuss with u on this topic....so once again, u are welcome to this group! but please don't use such arrogant sentences against arr has u have done it here...those guys are kind of HCARRF (u know what this means? hehe)...
  so, bye...
  
  
• From: Bharath (@ 192.25.158.12) on: Mon Oct 15 14:12:11 EDT 2001
  
  hey i know this gopal srinivasan...
  
  
• From: yaaro (@ 195.93.32.187) on: Mon Oct 15 14:51:02 EDT 2001
  
  dear dear marcel,
  you have come s...o klate and passing judgements on me for one sentence you saw in the top.at the time this topic was started HCARRF's were typing out rubbish-if you have time ,go back to archives during the period when i started this thread .THEN give your pronouncements please
  
  i am doing a c and p of a posting here:
  1) In IR's chemistry lab experiments results are
  Volumetric analysis = 16.2, 18.1 20.7
  Salt analysis = copper sulphate
  
  2)Physic lab experiments:
  Prism = 60 degrees
  TanB = .75321
  
  Computer Lab:
  
  1)IR's matrix transpose progream failed
  2) determinant of matrix passed :-)
  
  ellam soke(joke) thaaan!
  well marcel,
  ellam jokethan...
  
  
  
  
  
• From: yaaro (@ 195.93.32.187) on: Mon Oct 15 14:54:02 EDT 2001
  
  and here is another c and p of what i think are experiments of IR:
  From: yaaro (@ acbe171c.ipt.aol.com) on: Fri Jul 20 19:33:21 EDT 2001
  
  
  first person to use stereo
  first person to utilise computer in music arrangements
  first md to effectively mix wcm with various indian music forms
  radically different use of chorus
  radically different approach to bgm
  if you look at individual musical efforts:
  use of a female voice to recite the vedas in vedha ganam
  experimental modern concerto in raajaparvai
  avarohanam only song and changing a thyagaraja song tune in sindhu bairavi
  first to use a proper symphony orchestra for bgm
  first md to do a solo recital in hard core classical concert
  first (and only) indian md who can write a complete musical piece straight from his mind onto paper!
  can anyone add to my list?
  
  
  
  From: yaaro (@ acbe171c.ipt.aol.com) on: Fri Jul 20 19:41:05 EDT 2001
  
  
  use of a chamber orchestra to play a thyagaraaja krithi(in how to name it)
  carnatic countermelody to a bach compostion(again HTNI)
  how did i forget them?
  
  
  
  From: yaaro (@ acbecc13.ipt.aol.com) on: Mon Jul 23 18:22:51 EDT 2001
  
  
  use of a completely unorthodox voice for a hit song for first time(anne anne..)
  made janaki sing as a child, oldie..
  spb's song in keladi kanmani..
  controversial use of maangalyam thandhunaanena -as a bgm in engeyo keeta kural-what a ruckus it created at that time!
  completely unorthodox tuning of bharathiyar songs for bharathi-including first time adaptation of a hitherto unheard song for first time(nirpadhuve..)
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.230) on: Mon Oct 15 15:40:01 EDT 2001
  
  yaaro,
  
  "use of a completely unorthodox voice for a hit song for first time(anne anne..) "
  
  How about Thaeni Kunjaramma for "Pettai Rap"?
  Can a voice be more unorthodox:) than this!
  That was ARR's 3rd or 4th movie.
  Was that song in one of IR's first five movies?!ARR experimented much earlier in his career than IR and came out with trumps.
  
  "radically different approach to bgm "
  
  Using the part of the songs very effectively as BGM.Can any approach be as radical or effortless as this?:)
  
  "first person to use stereo "
  "first person to utilise computer in music arrangements"
  
  At that time ARR was just dumb learning alphabets and learning to count using his fingers.
  
  
  
  
• From: Saketh@Atlanta (@ 66.56.8.109) on: Mon Oct 15 17:01:08 EDT 2001
  
  Just curious...
  What about Lagaan's orchestrated pieces - Waltz for romance, and Once upon India? Do they have any of the counterpoint/etc/etc fundas?
  
  Agreed that popular vote is not the best way of telling what is good music. My question is what then really tells good music apart? If a piece has a counterpoint, can it be called good music? What if it does not appeal to people?
  
  I like IR very much, but come on - ARR is giving good popular music. Why can't the so-called knowledgeable people in this forum spend sometime enlightening illiterates like me as to what we should be looking for? Is ARR music totally trash?
  
  
• From: rf (@ 64.12.104.32) on: Mon Oct 15 17:41:47 EDT 2001
  
  Saketh, ARR is a genius but on a very different platform. He has broken several rules, not really bothered to set standards, but like a guy with corporate world influence, has made know one thing: why reinvent the wheel!!!! i am starting a thread with some analysis of ARR's musical strategy and why he could be better in the game than IR and far ahead of IR's sons.
  
  
• From: Bharath (@ 192.25.158.12) on: Mon Oct 15 18:33:05 EDT 2001
  
  experiment:
  1) A test, trial or tentative procedure, esp, one for the purpose of of discovering something unknown or of testing a principle supposition etc.
  2)the conducting of such opeations
  3)OBs. experiance
  4)to try or test, esp, in order to prove something.
  
  
• From: Bharath (@ 192.25.158.12) on: Mon Oct 15 19:21:03 EDT 2001
  
  Yaaro,
  
  You really have a lot of things to say. I also admire your perseverance in bringing out so much things about IR. but understand some points
  
  1) ARR need not have to do "experiments" to be justified as a good MD .
  2) The sample space of IR that you are dealing with is quite huge and is unfair if its a comparison with ARR
  3) My request to list the "experiments" of IR filtered by either his first 60 films or first 10 years, whichever is greater (surely 10 years) was largely ignored. That would have put things in the correct perspective.
  4) You underestimate our liking for IR and overestimate our illitracy in judging ARR. And also you trivialize ARR into a non-musical entity
  5) For ARR to do what IR did (wcm style compositions) would have been terribly stupid. It wud have made him an IR clone with no identity.
  6)I have seen many DF'ers calling ARR tunes nursery rhymes the above C & P about volumetric analysis is not worse than that.
  
  the moot point is experimentation in a field like cricket or music requires a level of comfort. Some one who has acheived the basic targets can AFFORD to experiment with "out of scope" stuff. For ARR to be expected to do a lot of this in the first decade of him establishing his career is quite a lofty expectations.
  
  
  
• From: Gayathri (@ 64.26.194.165) on: Mon Oct 15 21:49:48 EDT 2001
  
  Guys,
  Define what is 'radical experimentation'!
  It is nothing but to break the conventionality and to bring in something new, and unheard of. In the very same lines, both MDs have attempted to play around at their own levels. There's no point in bringing chronological factors for justification as the ambience, expectations, and the technology changes with time. If IR ruled by the introduction of mellifluous vocal-BGMs, mind-boggling shifting of minor/maor chords, ARR simply astounds evry1 by the introduction of whole new sounds, breaking the shackles of classic musical protocols.
  
  
• From: rf (@ 172.173.66.66) on: Mon Oct 15 22:13:18 EDT 2001
  
  ARR is doing a great job of producing original tunes based on very famous western pop/romance ballads. Actuallly, I like it a lot to see a different set of tunes and mood coming into Indian films. This song: Poonthendralae from the Ottam has a portion of the tune of the famous Chris Isaak song " Ooooh I am in love with u" or something like that (i forgot the name of the song) has anybody heard it. It is at www.dhool.com. very good number.
  
  
• From: rAgapriyan (@ 192.25.240.23) on: Mon Oct 15 23:35:26 EDT 2001
  
  Yarro et al,
  
  >>'first person to use stereo'
  Come on ...thats not an experiment. Its technology. Had 'Stero' technology not materialzed today, can you still credit IR for it ? { That way we can say ARR is first person to use 'dolby'..:) }
  
  >>first person to utilise computer in music arrangements
  huh ? do u really consider this to be true ? and even if so, i can apply same logic as above to refute it. { Analogy : ARR is first MD to use Apple i-book with G4 processor..:) }
  
  >>radically different use of chorus
  How ? Where ? pls substantiate how it can be termed radical. {and while at it, pls keep in mind for comparison ARR's 'Raasathi' in Thiruda Thiruda
  where the chorus was really 'radical' and was giving the effect of a whole set of instruments being played, while the truth is that except for some acoustic bass, there were NO OTHER INSTRUMENTS in that song }
  
  Actually, ARR's songs are all experimental. Its difficult to put it down here in words..but maybe if we sit together and listen to the songs, i could point them out to you.
  
  Neverhteless, here is a partial list of the real 'experimental' stuff that ARR has done.
  
  1. Use of Theni Kujaramma in Pettai Rap (like Trend pointed out)
  2. The african 'yodelling' sound in 'Thillana thillana' in Muthu
  3. 'Karasu Tharasal' by MG sreekumar in Tajmahal
  4. Use of animal sounds -
  a. Rooster in kokku saiva kokku
  b. Cow in 'tiupaachi aruvaala'(TajMahal)
  c. Bleat of Goat 'pachai kili paadum...kutti potta aatu kootam' in Karuthamma (i think)
  5. Sound of Modem connecting to the internet - 'Oh Maria' in TajMahal
  6. The viruttham in AanandaBhairavi by hariharan for the song 'kalloori salai' in KD
  7. Poetry viruthham for 'Theendai' in ESK
  
  More later..
  
  cheers,
  rAgapriyan
  
  

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