Home   Forum   Wiki   Notes   Register   FAQ   Sitemap   About Us   Contact Us  

Raja should retire.

Topic started by Bored_raja_fan (@ 1cust13.tnt26.sfo3.da.uu.net) on Thu Apr 16 19:35:08 EDT 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

---

Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: arvind (@ oxhp.com) on: Tue Apr 28 16:40:55 EDT 1998
  
  relax guys
  
  
  if raja should retire, who should not, can u tell me one good music director in tamil cinema, in what way, they are better than raja now.
  
  i am not posting this as a fan of raja,
  
  should they retire, it i a world of competition, if every body is not competent enough they should try to be one, not retire. we wud b left with nobody
  
  
• From: Rajesh (@ pdxss902.jf.intel.com) on: Tue Apr 28 17:39:19 EDT 1998
  
  Srikanth
  
  Welcome back. jollya post seyunga. edhukku misunderstandings ellam. see u in other threads.
  indha threadla romba discuss pannitom.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.29.250) on: Tue Apr 28 19:37:57 EDT 1998
  
  guys,
  i was not blindly supporting raja and blindly giving some examples to prove my point.in my previous posting i had asked a question which i repeat here.
  WHAT HAVE OTHER MD'S LIKE KR AND ARR HAVE DONE FOR TFM IN THE LAST YEAR SO BRILLIANTLY THAT RAJA HAS NOT DONE, AND AS A RESULT HE SHOULD RETIRE?
  
  no one dared to answer the above question and people conveniently evade such questions.
  
  that raja does not compose 40 films a year and does not give 20 or 25 hits per year as he used to do before is a well known fact .my question is
  SO WHAT?
  
  he is still good enough to be in the industry,to say the least.he is becoming better with age is my opinion.he is becoming more selective since his sons are there, and he his channelising his energy into composing melodious numbers.
  
  when there are so many other songs i do not know why people choose to take only examples like 'kangalin vaarthaigal' for discussion.it is not even a original tamil movie,a dubbed version and i hear that the original version is stupendous.also the dubbedversion is supposed to have been recorded badly.so this film is not representative of raja's efforts in TFM.
  
  people say that i always comeup with just 1 or 2 examples and say that IR is better.but can the same people give me atleast 10 good songs that deva or AR have composed in the last year?
  
  NO,THEY CANNOT.AR is supposed to be in his prime but he is just composing 2 or 3 films a year
  and also half of the songs are mediocre stuff.
  so when he can continue , why should raja retire
  is my question.
  
  and also its not that i cannot come up with examples in tamil.'poongaatre' from kizhakkum merkum is another lilting melody and there are a couple of gems from veera thaalattu to name a few.
  
  I tried my best to avoid giving examples ,but since people insisted that i did not give examples in TFm but only a couple of mallu films i had to give the above songs.also my hearing
  is limited to what is there on the internet.i do not have any cassettes with me now in the U.S
  otherwise iam sure there would be much more to the above list.
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ 181.minneapolis-06.mn.dial-access.att.net) on: Tue Apr 28 21:36:16 EDT 1998
  
  Hi guys
  
  I thought of not writing first but to answer Mr.Vijay --- Ar was able to push raja to back seat --- it is a fact - before AR - Raja was ruling the TFM but AR was able to SIDELINE Raja..As a musician myself I consider this as an achievment...to come up over Rajas domination was considered to be most difficult task, we all know RAJA's skill and his talent, it is the best. for AR - one cannot say just pure luck. If anyone says it is luck or people have changed ....it is because of thier ignorence.
  He works only 4 movies a year, AR might have thought that is enough for him he gets what he wants (might be fame or satisfaction) in 5 movies...- remember if he wishes 20 movies producers are ready for that.
  AR has given new grooves, slap bass scores etc..
  TFM Recording quality has reached international stds, He released album for the 50yrs of Indian independence - the video for vandematram is really patriotic -
  There are many things going in last few years in TFM..Above are few...
  
  Calling ARs score or KRs score is mediocre --- Ignorence is bliss.What else to say!
  
  Srikanth
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.29.250) on: Tue Apr 28 23:39:59 EDT 1998
  
  i do not care whether vande mataaram's video is patriotic or not.iam talking about TFM and TFM ONLY.once again my question has been evaded.no one is able to come up with a convincing answer as to why raja should retire when the other MD's are doing nothing better.
  
  in terms of melody if u compare song by song
  IR's compositions with others ,IR still stands well above the others.
  
  another example of double standards of some people here is this:
  
  1.when IR was scoring for a very number of films
  sometime back,these people argued that IR's days are over,his music is no longer popular and that he should retire.
  
  2.now when the same IR answers back with a bang to shut the mouth of his critics and bags 25 offers,they say AR, if he wants to, could have accepted more films but he is satisfied with just 3 or 4 films.DOUBLE STANDARDS!
  
  the fact is AR knows that he has very limited stuff with him,(he started recycling his own tunes
  long back) and he is afraid of exhausting them.
  so he does just a couple of films per year.
  
  
  then the next qobvious question in anyone's mind would be are all the songs in these films 'top of the line stuff' ? no! THEY ARE NOT.if u say rakshagan is top of the line stuff then it means only one thing.My criteria for
  saying whether a song is good or not entirely differs from yours.
  
  in my opinion other than 'kannodu kanbathalam'
  all other songs do not have melody and lasting power.in general AR's songs lack depth.
  
  '...AR was able to SIDELINE raja'
  
  we are not talking about what happened 4 years back.we are talking about the present.and as of today AR is no position to attract producers like he used to do before.the fact that AR has been able to withstand so long is because of the patronage he has received from big directors like mani and shankar,who because of ego problems could not work with IR. in addition the hype that is created in the media over these films helps the cause.whereas IR's kathalukku mariyathai a low budget film whith very limited hype had hit songs.it was only because of the melody of the song and nothing else.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Nithin (@ nc.pr.mcs.net) on: Wed Apr 29 00:18:51 EDT 1998
  
  Vijay
  
  Appadi Podunga, Saar. Exactly same sentiments and the same question? I mean, who says and why says Raja should retire. MSV is coming up with compositions even today, only thing he is one who has remained with this old style of orchesration and not changed as far as orchestration is concerned. That is 40 years of presence. What about Salil Chowdhruy. He started composing in 1951. Went on till about 1995, not really for movies, but for a lot of teleserials. So, that is another genius with 40 years of presence. Raja has finished about 23 years. We can, touchwood, hope to see IR for another 10-15 years to say the least, making music perhaphs for another 100 -150 movies, even if he does only 10 movies a years. If I had a few millions bucks, I will produce movies so that IR can slowly and steadily compose in them and reach a 1000. A signature of 'once in a universe' phenomenon!
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ 67.minneapolis-06.mn.dial-access.att.net) on: Wed Apr 29 00:38:21 EDT 1998
  
  HI
  After all this --- back to Square one....and same old raja puranam--- and Ar puranam...
  No Depth, uses his old tunes...
  
  
  Pongap pa ..I am not able to understand Mr.Vijay...
  I am sorry...Time out for me from this talk
  (this time it will final - not like Imaran's retirement)
  
  Srikanth
  
  
• From: Viswa (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Wed Apr 29 01:32:50 EDT 1998
  
  Vijay, Srikanth :
  There you go again ... :)
  
  It is a fact that ARR did manage to outshine IR at one stage (during the Roja, Gentleman, Kadhalan days). I think the audience were just lapping up a new trend in TFM, that ARR had to offer. While MDs like Deva, etc. were satisfied with adopting IR's style of tunes, ARR came out with a different approach. This immediately appealed to the audience, and ARR became popular. So, that's not really very surprising. Secondly, ARR brought about a change in the standard of recording (as Srikanth has rightly pointed out). I think we must admit that ARR scored a point there. Thirdly, ARR brought about a lot of fresh talent into TFM (the likes of Unni, Hariharan, Sujatha (once again), Shahul Hamid, etc.). So, these are some good contributions ARR has done since his debut.
  
  Yes, Vijay, all this has been there for sometime now. But as regards what all of them (ARR, KR, etc.) have done over the last one year... well, in terms of great tunes (that have a lasting impact), they don't seem to have done much. As for ARR, even though, his recording continued to be good, and he experimented with new singers (Bombay Jayashri, Nithyashree, etc.), tunes wise he did'nt make the kind of impact he made in 1992-93. I agree with you, Vijay, on that one.
  
  As for KR, I think, he did show some promise in "Ullasam", but did'nt do very well in NINI and KK.
  He probably needs a little more experience to mature...
  
  And coming to IR, his work in "Guru", "Yatramozhi", etc. were damn good. In fact, his recording was also very good indeed. In fact, as most of you have pointed out, a whole new whiff of freshness could be experienced in these works. IR is also beginning to use new talents. ("Guru Charanam" had Venugopal, "Deva Sangeetham" had Radhika Tilak, etc.).
  
  So, Vijay, the last year has gone IR's way, all said and done.
  
  
• From: Viswa (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Wed Apr 29 02:11:02 EDT 1998
  
  Srikanth :
  I share with you the wish that IR has to stamp his class in the years to come with renewed vigour. So, let's look forward to some great stuff from IR...
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.29.250) on: Wed Apr 29 02:23:31 EDT 1998
  
  viswa,
  iam glad that u share my opinion.i admit that the standards of guru and yaathramozhi in malayalam are superior to what IR himself has scored in tamil films recently. guru and yathramozhi both are supposed to be great films and perhaps that might have inspired IR more to come out with classic numbers.
  
  guru is based on the H.G.Wells story 'valley of the blind' and was nominated for OSCAR .even though i heard the songs in a not so very good system i had to admit i was blown away by the
  'ponveyilil' song from YM and 'deva sangeetham'
  and 'ennalum maadathu' by sujatha from guru.
  
  so that's why i do not want raja to go away. iam eagerly expecting equally good numbers if not better ones in tamil in the near future.
  
  to be frank as a raaja fan i have not exactly been satisfied with the melody of his songs recently, except for a few ones.but when i listen to songs of other MD's i feel that IR better stay for some more time or we would be doomed to listen to mediocre music.
  
  i agree that KR and ARR have brought about fresh changes in choice of instruments,singers and style of recording.but as a music lover my main concern is how much the song affects me emotionally.when i listen to 'poomalai' from sindhubhairavi, i get emotionally affected and i cannot do anything else for sometime after listening to that song. ditto with 'ilamayenum poongaatru' from pagalil oru iravu.
  
  and till today no song of KR and very very few songs of ARR have affected me to that extent.
  so inspite of the recording style and all that what ultimately matters is MELODY. and that i see very little in today's MD's songs.
  if other people have other criteria for choosing good songs then their opinions are also bound to differ.
  this summarizes my point.
  
  
• From: S.Suresh (@ dwarpal.wipsys.soft.net) on: Wed Apr 29 03:11:52 EDT 1998
  
  Hi,
  
  I agree with Viswa. It was not easy to push IR to the back and come out as the most popular MD. ARR did it and due credit to him. In fact it was much harder to do it in a Maniratnam movie since MR-IR combination has always been top class. ARR strengths were his new orchestration. He kept the orchestration to the minimum. New voices. New beats. None can deny this.
  
  Now comes the testing period for ARR. The novelty is now expected. People are slowly getting bugged with voices that cannot pronounce Tamil. So if you do look at ARR's recent past, he had Minsara Kanavu which was a terrific hit. Daud in Hindi was a damp squid. Vande Mataram was a hit. Kabhi Haan Kabhi Na released recently is also a big flop. In TFM Ratchagan songs were mediocre. In fact I heard a cassette shop fellow lamenting that these cassettes were selling only in Madras whereas in other towns there were no takers. In fact Deva's Tanjavuru (Porkalam) was at the top of popularity charts pushing Ratchagan's songs behind. In fact Deva had a good year wth Porkalam and Nerukku Ner. (Both had copied songs - as usual) I think Jeans songs are the similar stuff of ARR. They are bound to be hit. No doubt. But I can assure you they will never reach the popularity of Minsara Kanavu songs.
  
  I fully agree with Vijay that Raja's somgs have the capacity to move you emotionally. This is the hallmark of all great composers. Vishwanathan Ramamrthy in Tamil, KV Mahadevan, S Rajeshwar Rao in Telugu, Roshan MadanMohan, Salil, SD Burman in Hindi. Though IR's fare is not so great in recent times, I dont think the stuff has dried out. As I had written earlier you have to listen to his Malayalam songs. They move you emotionally.
  
  I agree with the fact the ARR has made our music international. This is because at some places you hear Micheal Jackson, some places Sister Act etc :-) ( I am reminded of a Mel Brooks movie in which the dialouge goes " My husband is world famous in Poland" ). I do hope ARR will get out of his infatuation with beats, recording etc and start giving us great melodies. This will benefit all of us. I think ARR is the MD with the max potential in the new crop of MDs. It will be a pity if he were to fail to lift himself up from the level he is today.
  
  As for my vote, IR should keep continuing to compose music. In fact the MDs coming in nowadays are so mediocre that it is a big pain to watch any top 10 songs program in Tamil. It is better in Hindi because they atleast copy some hummable English songs :-)
  
  

---

List all pages of this thread

Post comments