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COPYING - IN TAMIL FILM HISTORY

Topic started by s.senthilkumar (@ 203.197.154.163) on Mon Jan 24 07:23:36 EST 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

i think "copying" is there for a long time in tamil film history.Here we discuss the tamil songs copied from others.

For a compilation of copied/inspired songs: http://copied.newtfmpage.com

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Ravi (@ 167.230.227.60) on: Thu Oct 4 17:45:39 EDT 2001
  
  CF, the movie u r talking abt is 'Wait until dark', a 1960's Audrey Hepburn starrer. IOP seemed to be heavily inspired by this movie, but the story was quite different. Except that the central character was a blind woman who is home alone. IOP was more like a sequel or prequel to WAD, than a remake.
  
  
• From: Jag (@ 35.9.20.170) on: Thu Oct 4 17:54:24 EDT 2001
  
  Bharath,
  few points
  1)comparing deva with IR is dumb. Imagination in case of IR=creativity.
  2)IR is a virtuoso. He is the perfect musician according to me.
  3) Imagine a person with IR's talent "looking" for ideas!. Personally even I don't like to look at solutions done by others, what about an immensely talented and competitive guy like IR. How many people are comfortable at looking at solutions(here: music) worked out by others?
  
  4)The only times that IR was inclined to lift
  from west "that much" was when the directors forced him to. Or he was impressed with some piece and felt that it would suit the situation perfectly well.(eg:Song from Chatriyan inspired from Sound of Music)
  
  5)If he "looking for ideas" he would have had to watch movies which suited the situations for which he was composing. How many Western movies have the situations of folk lore of south India in them?
  Especially Balachander's, Balu mahendra's, K.Vishwanath's movies which were almost all folk based.
  
  6)How do you know the exact timing of each instrument, without the song being written or the instrument played? (If you can understand telugu
  listen to "Nanee Lokam.." from Kirathakudu.)
  
  The wind can blow in any direction it wants, but the only wind I can feel the strongest is the one punctuated by IR's music.
  
  
  Jag
  
  
• From: Bharath (@ 192.25.158.12) on: Thu Oct 4 18:44:53 EDT 2001
  
  hmm... i'll reply to ur points..
  
  //"1)comparing deva with IR is dumb. Imagination in case of IR=creativity. "//
  
  we r all aware of the 7 differences between IR and Deva thats not the point!
  
  tasks like "talking about philosophy, composing music and bgm for a lot of movies in the same time
  spending time with families".... irrespective of their quality ..is done by deva also...
  
  can i say that "oh! he spends so much time on work? how can he copy".... in the 18 hrs 1 is awake in 365 days a lot can be done.
  
  dont use lack of time as an argument for not copying.
  
  //"3) Imagine a person with IR's talent "looking" for ideas!. Personally even I don't like to look at solutions done by others, what about an immensely talented and competitive guy like IR. "//
  
  probably the most interesting question i have answered to?
  
  ask this(and please this is quite profound so think deeply).... how did IR learn music? How did u learn math? ....wasnt both some one else's solutions
  
  
  //"How many people are comfortable at looking at solutions(here: music) worked out by others? "//
  
  I spent 14 years in school + 6 years in college looking and learning from some one else's solutions!(a.k.a text books!) does that mean I copy ?
  
  //"4)The only times that IR was inclined to lift
  (eg:Song from Chatriyan inspired from Sound of Music) "//
  
  now.... now ! accept manly that inspiration "happened"... everyone can give reasons.
  
  
  //"5)If he "looking for ideas" he would have had to watch movies which suited the situations for which he was composing. How many Western movies have the situations of folk lore of south India in them? "//
  
  How many western movies had situations similar "Banupriya was singing inside of a 2 TV to 2 children of a police officer?"
  is situation a criteria to copy ????
  
  //"6)How do you know the exact timing of each instrument, without the song being written or the instrument played?"//
  
  why did u ask this question in the first place..
  
  
• From: Jag (@ 35.9.20.170) on: Thu Oct 4 19:22:37 EDT 2001
  
  //* dont use lack of time as an argument for not copying. *//
  So he did not copy, whatever be the cause. Leaves to reason that ,if he did copy, it would be because he lacked the talent to create something on his own. so it boils down to saying that IR lacks talent.
  
  //** How many western movies had situations similar "Banupriya was singing inside of a 2 TV to 2 children of a police officer?"
  is situation a criteria to copy ????
  **//
  
  The kids and a grown up singing. The scene being reminiscent of sound of music. Probably the director(under maniratnam's production) was following maniratnam's pattern of being inspired by western flicks.
  
  //"6)How do you know the exact timing of each instrument, without the song being written or the instrument played?"//
  
  only as an example to show his originality. if he was inspired from some tune, his music arrangements in the interludes would lack the flow
  of the tune. If he copied the music, the tune would stick out from the music. But if the song flows smoothly with subtle music pieces supporting the music and lyrics, it shows the originality of the IR.
  
  //* I spent 14 years in school + 6 years in college looking and learning from some one else's solutions!(a.k.a text books!) does that mean I copy ? *//
  So agreed even you know that this is not copying.
  So do I. But when you are old enough to think for yourself, and you are given an assignment to solve, let me know if you run upto your neighbour
  for the solutions. If you even understand what I meant by competitiveness, you would know that there are exceptionally talented people at school who try to solve problems without looking at the textbook, just from what they have learnt from the teachers.
  IR doesn't claim to be divinely inspired or crap like that. He has not only read the textbooks of music , but also has authored them. That's the big difference.
  
  Why don't you make a point instead of just criticizing or debugging my posts? the saying goes,
  "it is easier to ask questions than to answer them"
  
  
  Jag
  
  
• From: rf (@ 172.131.215.238) on: Thu Oct 4 19:49:42 EDT 2001
  
  just a small diversion from the main theme:
  
  
  but is this true?
  
  And now the world is Rahman's stage
  By Nikhat Kazmi
  
  NEW DELHI: Time for the Indian musical note to go global with music whiz kid A R Rahman all set to do a Shekhar Kapur to popular Indian music. Even as Kapur continues to create a niche for the Indian filmmaker in the west, Rahman is fast becoming the global face of Indi-pop. For close on the heels of Ekam Satyam, his duet with Michael Jackson last year, comes Bombay Dreams, a musical jugalbandi with Andrew Lloyd Weber, which will hit the UK stage later this year.
  
  According to Rahman, it is the increasing popularity of Indian film music in the overseas market which has forced the west to sit up and take note of the `richness' and `diversity' of Indian notes. ``There is a whole new movement of Indian music happening all over the world today,'' says the singer-musician. ``Madonna is singing our songs, Michael Jackson is crooning Ekam Satyam. Even Stanley Kubrick incorporated Indian notes in Eyes Wide Shut.
  
  Yes, the world seems to be opening up for Indian music.'' And why not? Specially, when ``there is a whole new community - Indian and not yet Indian - which wants something cool, yet Indian,'' he explains. And the
  new-fangled brand of techno-savvy fusion music, unspooling from the burgeoning Indian studios is catering to this need of the new listener with his desire for hip and soul together.
  
  Weber's attention, however, turned to Indian music after the success of the music album of Taal in the overseas market, feels Rahman. ``The fact that Taal entered the top 20 of the UK audio charts has encouraged people like Weber to explore more and experiment with Indian music too. I was lucky to be able to meet him,'' enthuses the music composer who is all set to leave for the UK after
  completing his film commitments here. Of course, with two maestros working together, the notes aren't going to be smooth and easy all the way, specially if they hail from two different cultures. ``I know it's not going to be easy, but
  both of us are determined to give it a shot,'' he adds optimistically.
  
  In the Capital to release his latest `patriotic' music video Jana Gana Mana 2000 - a Bharatbala and Kanika production - Rahman expressed his discomfiture with the increasing `noise' in Indian music.
  
  
• From: rf (@ 64.12.104.31) on: Thu Oct 4 22:36:16 EDT 2001
  
  btw, second interlude of IR's song, Ilamai Idho, Idho was in a Hollywood film i saw, it is a late 80s films!!!! it was foolish of me to not rememebr which video it was, thought i kept rewinding the music!!!!
  
  
  
  From: yaaro (@ 172.190.136.36) on: Thu Oct 4 14:17:35 EDT 2001
  
  
  Sure it was late 80's?.Ilamai idho idho was done in 81
  _______________________________________________
  
  yaaro, i just went thru my list of borrowing at the grocery store, did not have a complete list, but my guess is one bad movie that i was fast forwarding:
  
  Palermo Connection - Jim Belushi (It has music by Ennio Morricone incidentally) this is a scene when two people are walking out a shop and the background is a wall with some graffiti. that is all i remember about the stupid film. But,the second interlude to my surprise just as in the song Ilamai Idho Idho (SKVallavan) appears as a background theme as if played on the streets.
  
  Anybody get a chance see that movie and confirm:
  
  Other movies (excellent ones)I saw during that time was and might be a probable one:
  
  Narrow Margin
  & another Gener Hackman/M Freeman film I forgot the name
  Monolith
  Straight Talk
  Bonfire of the Vanities also a possibility.
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Bharath (@ 192.25.158.12) on: Fri Oct 5 13:26:43 EDT 2001
  
  JAG my points
  1)if say IR doesnt copy that can only be supported by facts or lack of circumstantial evidence against it. You cannot say IR is a busy man and so he doesnt copy! thats like saying hansie cronje was a busy man he cudnt have bribed. its not a good argument
  
  and dont shift the blame on the movie directors.. ARR is critisized for recycling and deva for copying they can also shift blame on others
  
  2)If a song is copied it doesnt neccesarily mean it will lack the flow etc...doesnt wash.. cant buy it
  
  3)//"So do I. But when you are old enough to think for yourself, and you are given an assignment to solve, let me know if you run upto your neighbour "//
  
  no but i may run to reference books for more knowledge.
  
  again my point is: if IR listens to outside music it doesnt mean he is stealing ..he is increasing or learning something...and just because he has authored books does not mean he can stop learning!
  for the solutions
  
  //"it is easier to ask questions than to answer them" //
  
  we know that thats why u should be very careful when u make a posting. if ur post cant pass my simple question debug then u have made no point at all.
  
  and more importantly... some questions are indirectly meant to drive home a point. I cannot explicitly Title a post saying " i am making a point" no world works that way!
  
  
  
  
• From: Jag (@ 35.9.26.144) on: Fri Oct 5 16:02:28 EDT 2001
  
  Bharath,
  This discussion keeps digressing from the actual thread topic, including my posts. I am pained by the apathy that the new generation has towards . IR keeps on learning and that is what differentiates him from the current crop. Within 5 years they are recycling tunes and he comes up with new tunes after 25 years. People are expecting something new from him in his new projects. And, I don't think we are the right people to even evaluate or gauge the vastness of his knowledge.
  
  Even though he has limited(<1 or 2%) inspirations in his vast career, we should be careful and accurate when bringing such inspirations to other's notice.
  As for me I can only think of familiarising the new generation with his musical gems, and not try to move them away from him by saying he has copied the first interlude, second piece, seventh note ...... from somewhere. Hope that makes my point.
  
  
  Jag
  
  
  

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