Topic started by Karthik (@ 12.10.193.123) on Tue Aug 22 07:04:35 EDT 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
Folks...
Maniratnam, K Balachander and Bharathiraja, all three biggie directors in tamil actually had a very fruitful association with IR. Except KB the other 2 actually started with IR. KB of course is an old hand and had a great innings with MSV.
Now Mani has worked only with 2 composers, IR and ARR. And contrary to media speculation he might not work with newcomer Dina, as he's rumored to work only for Mani's home production directed by his assistant azhagam perumal. So Mani goes on.
KB, has for now stopped movies and more into Tele serials. But he shifted to Maragadhamani (Keeravani in telugu and MM Kreem in hindi) with Azhagan and subsequently Jaadhi malli. Both of them had some really good music. Deva came in for one movie, Kalki and the music, for the first time in a KB movie was substandard (IMHO). Then KB went to ARR and came out with Duet, again with great music. KB stopped there!
Bharathiraja was the strange one. He opted for Ravi in Vedham Pudhithu, when even today lot of people think it was by Raja. The kannukkul nooru nilavu was a classic IR-like composition. I still am doubtful about the composer of VP, can anybody clarify once and for all?
Anyway, BR then shifted to IR for some movies, came to ARR for kizhakku cheemayile, karuthamma, anthimantharai, taj mahal. He had also tried vidyasagar for parambarai, which did have some good numbers. And of course Deva for tamizh selvan and now kadal pookkal. BTW, tamizh selvan had some good numbers by Deva.
Now the questions:
Why did these 3 directors leave Raja in the first place? What were their last movies with Raja? Mani's was Thalapathy, but the other 2??
All three worked with ARR, Mani (6 movies), KB (1) and BR (3). MR still does. KB is out of movies. So why is BR so unsure with his composers?
Would Mani and BR be back with IR to create magic again? (assuming that KB is into TV, fulltime)
Why did KB stop work with Maragadhamani? He was damn good after all in Azhagan and Jadhi Malli!! Similarly why did BR forget Vidyasagar who gave him more than decent music for Parambarai? (adi athi, thamara poovukkum)...does it have anything to do with all these 3 movies doing very average business?
Karthik
Responses:
- Old responses
- From: future_man (@ 136.206.35.10)
on: Wed Aug 23 05:34:58 EDT 2000
The above thread indiactes that..History Will Repeat ...and Raaja wuld sit back in his throne!....
- From: future_woman (@ 203.197.45.127)
on: Wed Aug 23 09:02:10 EDT 2000
wake up future_man!
there's no doubting sunil gavaskar's genius but can he play the game today?
similarly, Raja is genius who has had his 15 years of undisputed fame. he should step down and make way for the Sachin tendulkars of the music world (read ARR).
- From: future_man (@ 136.206.35.10)
on: Wed Aug 23 10:00:01 EDT 2000
dear patner(future_woman)
God Is God..and he never changes after 15 years...!Likewise is Raja...
Take It Easy
- From: VS (@ 136.182.2.222)
on: Wed Aug 23 11:29:02 EDT 2000
S(hankar),
:-))))
Andha padam Sattam illai - Kaadhal parisu. First stanza la villain ai challenge panradhaa arthamaam ! Adhaan, "puli ivan", etc.
(Indha paattukkaagava pOyum pOyum VM protested nu thaan vEdikkaiya irukku !)
- From: Sridhar (@ 171.70.67.143)
on: Wed Aug 23 12:58:48 EDT 2000
I read an article somewhere sometime ago which was an interview with IR. When the jounalist asked about the future projects, IR said about one of his futures projects with MR.
So, i think, they might work again sometime in the future. but, can anyone authenticate the above news?
sridhar.
- From: STS (@ 208.222.192.2)
on: Wed Aug 23 13:45:09 EDT 2000
After a long time, this is one of the good threads
in TFM. Thanks for all those contributing to this thread and I continue to hear from this enthu guys. Good work
- From: kk (@ 198.4.92.5)
on: Wed Aug 23 14:01:03 EDT 2000
What about telugu directors like K. vishawanath,
ram gopal verma, vamsi etc left IR? any Idea.
BTW, what made bhagyaraj make his own music?.
As a IR fan, MR's stand is somewhat convincing. He was in all praise for IR in an article 'The MDs I worked with' in filmfare few years ago.
KB is thanksless, too much ego. Will he say the samething in case of ARR, if things get delayed?.
- From: non-partisan (@ 129.253.193.118)
on: Wed Aug 23 15:07:04 EDT 2000
NANBAN,
HAVE YOU HEARD OF THIS DIRECTOR BY THE NAME K S RAVI KUMAR WHO DIRECTED A FLOP VEERA WITH IR AND MADE A MEGA HIT MUTHU WITH ARR ?
- From: pg (@ 12.20.190.1)
on: Wed Aug 23 15:28:19 EDT 2000
veerA was a mega-hit. and it was not directed by k.s.ravikumar - it was directed by suresh krisnA
- From: Krishna (@ 208.28.2.2)
on: Wed Aug 23 16:58:35 EDT 2000
I think one point should not go unnoticed.
IR-MR's last movie together - Dhalapathy - Great songs - Hits
IR-BR's last movie together - Nadodi Thendral - Great songs - Hits
IR-KB's last movie together - PudhuPudhu Arthangal - Great Songs - Hits
IR-Rajni last movie together - Veera - Great songs - Hits
So whatever the reason these guys left IR, it is definitely not related to MUSIC.
- From: STS (@ 208.222.192.2)
on: Wed Aug 23 19:09:21 EDT 2000
KK,
Vamsi made a telugu movie with IR as MD. It is a Soundarya, Jagapathi Babu starer. It was a good movie, though violent.
- From: Sridhar (@ 171.70.67.143)
on: Wed Aug 23 20:25:35 EDT 2000
I think, the tamil remake of this movie is 'Anthapuram'. The songs are not that great. may be , it's for telugu audience.
sridhar.
- From: KITKAT (@ 202.188.102.225)
on: Wed Aug 23 21:17:27 EDT 2000
It is not right to rope in K. Bagyaraj in this circuit. Bagyaraj from his first movie used to rotate MD's. He had used Shankar Ganesh, Gangai Amaran, MSV, IR. All of them. Of course he came back to ilayaraaja for Mundanai Mudichu. But later he probably believed he can also make music and went on his own. Where it led him to is anybodies guess:-)
- From: sabesan (@ 63.203.255.254)
on: Wed Aug 23 21:18:08 EDT 2000
Sridhar - songs are not that great in 'Anthapuram'..... hmm, what to tell..... Kali Kallaaam...
- From: nvd (@ 161.142.78.82)
on: Wed Aug 23 22:26:05 EDT 2000
During his short visit to Malaysia (in a interviewover the air), Bhagyaraj said that he have had some misunderstanding with IR, but they resolve it later and come up with Vidhula Vishengha and Oru Orrla Oru Rajakumari. Bhagyaraj acknowledged that IR's talent is proven superior than his. In fact, he admitted that after the clash, he went to prove his ability in music just to satisfy his ego (about challenging IR).
- From: Karthik (@ 12.10.193.123)
on: Thu Aug 24 04:11:00 EDT 2000
Folks...
Thanks for all the enlightening views...
The point of this thread was to assess the comparitive successes and eventual fall out of IR as a composer. IR was a genius and has given his best to these 3 top directors. But why was the relation doomed to end? I was trying to assess the ego clashes if any and why it happened in the first place.
Does geniuses always have to have a spot of arrogance in them? That arrogance might stem from the immense confidence they have in their talent, but would the rest of the world relent to that arrogance?
I'm sure these 3 toppers might have inspired IR to produce much more creative music if they'd continued to work - considering the gems IR had created in the past for them.
Not to take away anything from ARR, he of course, within the purview of his talent, gave his best. Its a different story that the films he did with these directors were almost at the fag end of their creativity, mainly for BR and KB. Poor ARR got the brunt for some flops.
Karthik
- From: kk (@ 198.4.92.5)
on: Fri Aug 25 09:54:16 EDT 2000
oh man, when did he fallout!?. if IR has fallen out then KB is dead, BR is buried and MR is just breathing.
- From: Sridhar (@ 171.70.67.143)
on: Fri Aug 25 12:17:03 EDT 2000
Sabesan,
I could not listen to all of the songs in Andhapuram. I think, i got a chance to listen to 1 or 2 songs. may be the audio quality was not good. i'll listen to them and then, post my comments.
thanks for the pointer.
sridhar.
- From: Theva (@ 207.245.235.160)
on: Fri Aug 25 13:03:03 EDT 2000
I'm guessin', the reason the Directors left IR was because time was changing, people's taste for music was changing and maybe, they just wanted somethin' new.
Which is a good thing, bcoz havin' the same style of music over and over forever ... will be very boring, and may have lost many fans of indian music. (new fans)
P.S. I ain't sayin' dat IR is bad or anythin'.
- From: STS (@ 208.222.192.2)
on: Fri Aug 25 14:07:08 EDT 2000
Theva,
If taste changes then directors should goto Michael Jackson, Madona or someone not to Deva, SAR or someone of that sort. That is what we are talking about.
If you take ARR's album from the beginning the variety of music is same. Every movie has had one melody like (Uyirae - Bombay, En Kaadhali - Duet, En mel Vizhundha - May Matham, to very recent movie)
I am too not saying that he is good or he is bad.
If Director's need variety they can extract from any MD.
In my opinion, the problem for IR is
1) Bad Publicity - mostly projected by our great press In case of ARR, papers used to rave about him, if not for his musical calibre but for his young age, politeness etc., Press never liked IR because IR said many times it is a waste talking to press. I say DD interview once when IR said what is the use of interviews. You will ask the same monotonous questions like which song you like, which director you like etc., Instead I can compose few songs in that time. So the press wrote bad, creating a very bad image and that hurts now.
2) Extremely Busy
IR at his peak composed more than 50 films in an year which means that daily there will be recording. At this busy schedule, I am sure this big directors might have asked thier share and IR had to say NO. That hurts the directors who now think I will make sure you are finished.
3) Same as the case with producers
4) Arrogance
IR is not educated and he speaks down to earth. Even for a HCF like me, it is difficult sometimes to digest what he says. He speaks point blank and will be embrassing. May be most of the Geniuses are arrogant.
Don't pounce on me. Wanted to say something I feel
- From: mahA (@ 151.173.163.6)
on: Fri Aug 25 14:56:06 EDT 2000
Well, IR is arrogant and egoistic. Period. All the hard core fans (including me) know it very well. So, whats the use of talking about it? we might as well listen to his gems again and again and just stop pretending.
Aanmeham pesath therindha IR-kku, Idam, Porul, Yeval theriyavillai enbadhu dhan miha tharma sangadamana unmai.
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