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IR or ARR

Topic started by M.Anand (@ ihproxy1.proxy.lucent.com) on Tue Jan 18 01:03:04 EST 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

hi all, I am Anand from bangalore and a new visitor to the tfm page. I am a great fan of both ARR and IR. I browsed through all the earlier threads on ARR and IR. It seems to me that there are quite a few anti ARRs out here.

Let me tell you something about IRs music. IRs music became popular and sounded different because he tried to bring in a westernization of Carnatic ragas in his songs. Even a dappanguthu was in Lathaangi or sivaranjani. That actually made the difference. Otherwise he is no great MD. One might argue that such a westernization or incorporation of a carnatic raga in a dappanguthu or jazz is something that demands great applause. But IR doesn't deserve that because, if u say u are tuning a song in a particular raagam, you have to bring out the nuances, the laya and bhaava of the raagam in to the song. Just traversing the swaras in the raagam here and there does not mean that u have tuned a song in that raagam. Ilayaraaja has done just that, a mere traversal through the swaras. In many places, there were apaswaras also. ARR has tuned very few songs based on Carnatic ragas but they were classics. For example Mettu podu in Anjali is a beautiful song in Ananda Bhairavi. He has brought out every nuance of the raagam in that song. Minsaara Kanna in padaiyappa is an excellent piece in vasantha. En mel vizhunda mazhai tuliye is again a beautiful piece in kaapi. A real mix of the east and west. That is what u call fusion. Ilayaraaja boasts of having composed songs in rare raagas like chala nattai, kanakangi etc. For example pani vizhum malar vanam in chala nattai is again a pure note traversal. There was no attempt to bring out the nuances in the raaga. So IR knew how to make songs sound good but ARR gives a fine polish to each and every one of his songs. IR composed music for 700 odd films. Hey Ram is his 785th film. Considering 7 songs per movie, he has tuned almost 5500 songs. Huge number indeed but hardly 5% of those songs are listenable others are 100% pure junk. But 99.9% of ARRs songs are listenable and they are also good numbers. What do you say about this?

Regards,
Anand

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: sishya (@ 216.91.105.7) on: Tue Apr 18 02:06:46 EDT 2000
  
  
  ECHO... you & athi are excellent... Are you a lawyer? You argue very very well and give nose cut to all ARR-fans... I like that...
  
  nalu per pesaranga.. doesnt mean exactly 4,
  
  Warewah.. what great statement...profound. you speak just like our god IR. right, athi?
  
  Anyway, ur list is a wrong example, they are not in the row. Let me give the fact : ...,may madham,bombay,pavithra,.......,kadhal desam,mr romeo,iruvar,minsara kanavu...
  
  supperrr sequence... No one can make sequence like this..ARR cannot write or compose sequences.. only IR and IR fans like me, echo, Athi can sequence like this... IR makes musical sequences, his fans also make great sequences like echo's wonderful sequence of movies
  
  how about pudhiya mannargal, vandi solai, pavithra... all songs are mega hits? :)
  
  Thirunelveli, tirumadi palanichaami songs are better hits... so what if they didnt run in sun TV? they came and stole all the hearts of all people in the world.. I, athi and ECHO listen to it everyday before we have morning coffee...that is what makes IR music great..
  
  if u play keyboard well that doesnt mean that u are a good composer, U may be a good driver, but its not ensured that u can reach the right place.
  
  Same logic, if you listen to music, that doesnt make you a good appreciater... if you dont appreciate IR, you dont become a good appreciater, if you dont expose ARRs fraud who lives on others money, you are not fit to be a human being... if you do not hate AR.R, you are not fit to live... right, athi & scho?
  
  ECHO, Please join our secret squad under the great leadership of Athi to expose ARR's all fraud.. We need you ECHO.. you are very valuable to us...
  
  
• From: eden (@ 202.54.71.152) on: Tue Apr 18 08:12:40 EDT 2000
  
  Suresh!
  Can you kindly define the criteria for a song to be called `hit'?
  
  IMHO, if a song is unvoluntarily heard by me umpteen times a day (radio broadcast, marriage halls, buses, from cassette shops when you walk by, friends/relatives' houses when you visit, hmmmmm..DD telecasts) at least for a period of 2-3 months, I'm willing to list that as a hit...or atleast that's what my paradigm which is tuned to `neengal kEttavai' `nEyar viruppam' stuff defines...
  
  Your criteria of judging as `HIT' i.e. by cassette sales & sat TV telecasts alone (both are, IMHO, possible to achieve by sheer marketing / distribution talent, hype and money power and such non-musical factors...proof: vAnathai pOla) is unacceptable to me:-)
  
  By my criteria, `mArikkoottinnuLLil' is a rousing HIT!
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ 63-217-90-105.sdsl.cais.net) on: Tue Apr 18 09:02:47 EDT 2000
  
  sishya:
  You need to take a lot more funny-man lessons.
  
  
• From: Guru (@ netcache31.mot.com) on: Tue Apr 18 10:35:10 EDT 2000
  
  Sishya .... stop boring us .... pleeeez.
  
  
• From: subbudu (@ 1cust44.tnt15.tpa2.da.uu.net) on: Tue Apr 18 16:19:15 EDT 2000
  
  http://www.dinamalar.com/today/kumudam.htm" target="_top">www.dinamalar.com/today/kumudam.htm
  
  
• From: sishya (@ 216.91.105.7) on: Wed Apr 19 01:44:35 EDT 2000
  
  Guru and Srinath... You guys are fit only to make statements like `shut up', 'dont bore' etc.. you could not do anything about the nonsense that was going on here... one way to beat nonsense is to beat it with nonsense itself... I throwed more nonsense at nonsense and now the nonsense is silent.......... no nonsense for past 2 days...
  
  (if you also want to join Athi's group to expose ARR, you are welcome)
  
  
• From: dsf (@ 192.135.245.144) on: Wed Apr 19 08:18:34 EDT 2000
  
  Sishya,
  You are a moron. Better go and consult a doctor,
  otherwise you will become a mad.
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ 205.252.37.3) on: Wed Apr 19 10:56:51 EDT 2000
  
  Sishya:
  I have expressed my disagreement over the way Athi and ECHO have been dissing ARR unreasonably. I believe that if you are going to be sarcastic, you should be subtle about it. Your brand of "sarcasm" is as unpalatable as any HCIRF repeatedly calling ARR a fraud without bothering to substantiate it.
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 209.36.218.65) on: Wed Apr 19 12:19:51 EDT 2000
  
  I believe we have long gone away from the purpose of this thread's revival. Shall we send it back to the attic called archives?
  
  
• From: ECHO (@ hobbiton.org) on: Wed Apr 19 13:35:21 EDT 2000
  
  dissing ARR unreasonably
  If u are not able see his fraud thats not my mistake.
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ 208.24.179.211) on: Wed Apr 19 15:17:34 EDT 2000
  
  ECHO: Have you taken an oath to annoy sane posters in this forum? Right now you are treading too close to wearing out your welcome. Let me assure you - it is
  very easy for the newtfmpage admn. to block your id. If you want to have a reasonable discussion on relative merits/demerits of ARR with/without comparison to IR,
  please do so now! I will try to offer valid rebuttals to your contention(s). I am not promising that I will convert you, in fact I am not even interested in that. If you are
  not interested, for everybody else's sake, please hold your peace. Others: How do you like the new calmer rajaG? ayyO enakkEy bayammaa irukku. Sriram
  Lakshman: if you are surfing, whadduyya think?:-)
  
  
• From: Prakash (@ inh1ts12-qfe0.ims.bt.net) on: Wed Apr 19 16:50:39 EDT 2000
  
  whatever happened to this M.Anand, who is responsible for starting this thread in a very provocating manner and has not done any subsequent postings.
  I think this thread has been unnecessarily been kept going for too long.given the ardent nature of both these fans i think this will go on for ever-to what end.
  one man`s music is another man`s noise.let us all respect each other`s tastes and discuss things in a dignified manner- or not at all.
  TFM has given to world two fantastic composers.
  I myself am a HCIRF-but that does not distract me from good songs by others-whether it be ARR or SAR or Deva or Vidysagar.IR `s music has made me appreciate good music.It was mainly thanks to Maestro I became an ardent Western classical music fan.this was about ten years back.this Appreciation has,if anything made me appreciate the complexity and simple nature of music in general,his music in particular.
  I kindly request others not to indulge in comments which hurt others-this does not lead anywhere.given the growing strength of forum members,i think we may not be far from a day when we may even have some sort of meeting .We should be able to face each other.hiding behind the anonymity of the internet does not give you licence to write whatever you want!
  
  
• From: kiru (@ surf0004.sybase.com) on: Wed Apr 19 17:05:14 EDT 2000
  
  Echo and Athi,
  Dudes, You guys gotta take it little easy. I am no fan of ARR either. If you feel ARR is a fraud just mention what he copied from where. You cant go around talking like politicians making allegations against their foes. Please, dont think I am advising. Its just that we want the good and bad of either MDs to come out. We want knowledgeable people to contribute to the thread rather than shy away from the forum. Agreed, being technical people they have their own biases and favorites. But like they say, 'epporuL yAr yAr vAi kEtpinum apporuL meipporul kAnbathu aRivu'. So sit back and let people talk, especially when it is technical. It could be a good learning experience. It is for me, many times here.
  
  
• From: ECHO (@ hobbiton.org) on: Wed Apr 19 19:29:41 EDT 2000
  
  Kiru & Prabhakar,
  I agree and respect ur matured response. I do as u said.
  rajaG,
  my postings NOM to anybody here. but to critize, anybody who are exposed to public for criticisms. btw, y dont u answer to my question which i asked srikanth on ARR?
  
  
• From: Ravi (@ port432.erdial.netdoor.com) on: Thu May 25 22:11:22 EDT 2000
  
  The only hopes of keeping this Forum's Discussion thread is by always comparing Ilayaraaja and others ? Why ? My Humble Opinion is people who start such threads are the ones that are biased not to mention the amount of attention such a topic can evoke. Music of One Musician is never greater than the other nor lesser.. Its as unique as ones Finger Print. Since when has a Musical form been dissected techincally and proved superior to another ? and have people Dry cleaned their Musical Sense after someone proved that ones Music is better than the other ????? Y'all think Music is so simple ?Its so Kiddish... Ones Music taste Grows with time, circumstances and Nostalgia. Assuming i were to go techincally.. i would rather Listen to Subbudu, and other Carnatic Vidwans and Musicologists (Including many from american Universities, whom i know and have exposed to Ilayaraaja) who have Dissected analysed..and come to a conclusion,that he sure is Maestro) IF you are going to argue technicalities here. then goin by what the above mentioned people said, ILAYRAAJA is GREAT PERIOD.
  
  I am not buying anyones technical dissection here.. who are you ? what is your contribution to music? how many people know you for you virtuosity ? Just cause you know a grammer of certain music Gives you the right to argue your case ? Well then i would rather listen to Renowned peoples remarks about Ilayaraaja (in case i was Dumb enough not to go by my instincts) rather than listen to some TOM, DEEK or HARRY.
  
  Dont respond to this.. i will not visit this thread No more. Please refrain from such amaeturish display of your musical prowess in such threads.
  
  "Those who Sling MUD, Often Lose Ground"
  
  You can never convince anyone or Force anyone to listen to a particular Form of Music. Period.
  
  
• From: Krishnamurthy (@ esboaah.ceatlabs.okstate.edu) on: Fri May 26 18:06:46 EDT 2000
  
  Ravi exactly! People (so many here) THINK they know lot of music when all they know is few terms (like Drum and Bass..etc etc...)..I dont want to name any but its very much clear. All they do is confuse others only by using those words. Ask them to sing a tune, they dont know what they are asked. Thats the reason why I never visit these threads.
  
  

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