Home   Forum   Wiki   Notes   Register   FAQ   Sitemap   About Us   Contact Us  

IR or ARR

Topic started by M.Anand (@ ihproxy1.proxy.lucent.com) on Tue Jan 18 01:03:04 EST 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

hi all, I am Anand from bangalore and a new visitor to the tfm page. I am a great fan of both ARR and IR. I browsed through all the earlier threads on ARR and IR. It seems to me that there are quite a few anti ARRs out here.

Let me tell you something about IRs music. IRs music became popular and sounded different because he tried to bring in a westernization of Carnatic ragas in his songs. Even a dappanguthu was in Lathaangi or sivaranjani. That actually made the difference. Otherwise he is no great MD. One might argue that such a westernization or incorporation of a carnatic raga in a dappanguthu or jazz is something that demands great applause. But IR doesn't deserve that because, if u say u are tuning a song in a particular raagam, you have to bring out the nuances, the laya and bhaava of the raagam in to the song. Just traversing the swaras in the raagam here and there does not mean that u have tuned a song in that raagam. Ilayaraaja has done just that, a mere traversal through the swaras. In many places, there were apaswaras also. ARR has tuned very few songs based on Carnatic ragas but they were classics. For example Mettu podu in Anjali is a beautiful song in Ananda Bhairavi. He has brought out every nuance of the raagam in that song. Minsaara Kanna in padaiyappa is an excellent piece in vasantha. En mel vizhunda mazhai tuliye is again a beautiful piece in kaapi. A real mix of the east and west. That is what u call fusion. Ilayaraaja boasts of having composed songs in rare raagas like chala nattai, kanakangi etc. For example pani vizhum malar vanam in chala nattai is again a pure note traversal. There was no attempt to bring out the nuances in the raaga. So IR knew how to make songs sound good but ARR gives a fine polish to each and every one of his songs. IR composed music for 700 odd films. Hey Ram is his 785th film. Considering 7 songs per movie, he has tuned almost 5500 songs. Huge number indeed but hardly 5% of those songs are listenable others are 100% pure junk. But 99.9% of ARRs songs are listenable and they are also good numbers. What do you say about this?

Regards,
Anand

---

Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Naveen (@ proxy2o.dpn.deere.com) on: Mon Apr 17 14:08:25 EDT 2000
  
  Srikanth,
  cool down.. I don't know why u stopped explaining technical things. we are listening.. go ahead...
  Ravi.. u also pls. continue.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ surf0004.sybase.com) on: Mon Apr 17 15:16:06 EDT 2000
  
  Let me try sounding like a wise man :)
  People have biases. You cannot change them by saying you are biases. You can only try to show the good things in what they are biased against. RJAY is doing a pretty good job at that. Let us not discourage him from doing this.
  Re: chinna chinna aasai - I heard it is sung offbeat ??. I think I can see it. I think there is some truth is saying rOjA sounded different because of the recording. Personally, I noticed that the melodies sounded 'urbanish'. This in my opinion is one of the brand features of ARR. His melodies are totally different from the rest of the MDs. They are not long, usally short and jagged (I dont like it in that case). Maybe RJAY could enlighten us more on this melodic structure.
  Re: IR. I also have a suspicion that he took the directors/listeners sometimes for granted. I wish somebody like ARR had come much earlier in IRs career.
  
  
• From: Krishnamurthy (@ tesla.ceatlabs.okstate.edu) on: Mon Apr 17 16:01:32 EDT 2000
  
  Man! You guys never discuss music itself rather
  (as I always find) waste all your time differentiating MDs.
  
  
• From: Krishnamurthy (@ tesla.ceatlabs.okstate.edu) on: Mon Apr 17 16:04:37 EDT 2000
  
  There is a beauty in every piece of music you listen to. You can appreciate even a different version of the same song if you listen to it with a different mind. I would not call that a copy, but a different adaptation!
  
  
• From: Ha ha ha (@ kcecfp01.sprint.com) on: Mon Apr 17 17:43:27 EDT 2000
  
  God! I miss SPM and ARR Fan for their insightful comments!
  
  
• From: ECHO (@ hobbiton.org) on: Mon Apr 17 21:09:42 EDT 2000
  
  see the list flops, but he is still around, nalu per pesaranga.. doesnt mean exactly 4, :) eg; Pavithra, may madam, Mr.Romeo, Iruvar, Anyway, ur list is a wrong example, they are not in the row. Let me give the fact : ...,may madham,bombay,pavithra,.......,kadhal desam,mr romeo,iruvar,minsara kanavu... (moreover, the first set is in 1994 and second is in 1996-97. :)) but if you note all of the songs went well why? how about pudhiya mannargal, vandi solai, pavithra... all songs are mega hits? :) all single song hits. also as per your logic of playing slowly recycling etc, take the song SandhKi vantha kile (Siva I think) and MangKuYele... they are same!...I can provide many examples like this.... again, the wrong example no. 2., those songs are noway connected to each other, better u listen to the songs once again. btw, y u quote these songs?? Im not a raja fan to get "this for that" style answer, u gimme real reaoning behind that recyle. every time u want some thing... somebody
  somebody will throw on ur desk, u say raja did this rani did this and escape... :)) I wanted straigt forward answer.You are trying to aruge that you can stick a broken chalkpiece with glue.. this is what u done in ur posting.; FYKindI: he is a grade student in western classicalmusic, apart from that he has played with shakthi and other music groups, hope you have heard names like Loy mendosa, Zakir hussian, Maclafin, etc, his keyboard playing ability is beyond par, hold on sir,.... if u play keyboard well that doesnt mean that u are a good composer, U may be a good driver, but its not ensured that u can reach the right place. if u are an excellent/grade student in "editor" , it doesnt qualify for u for a "programmer". Arguement endra porvaiyel, please dont write CRAP. :)), I told u were decent, u proved me wrong. You have asked me why I support arr, simple he gives good music. Period. U may be delighted to see old songs(esp. MSV) in digitized format from him. But u failed to
  see the basic qualification for the composers, hope u understand this as u also a good composer. He do business, i agree that, for u need to be honest on any business u do, otherwise ... one day u'll paying the penalty. If u like him, keep that with u, dont try to thats the best. I have listened to entire range of md's in TFM, including murari, babu ganesh nos, but no body did make money on other's hard work.
  
  
• From: ECHO (@ hobbiton.org) on: Mon Apr 17 21:18:03 EDT 2000
  
  for u need to be = but u need to be
  try to thats=try to say thats
  u'll paying=u'll be paying
  
  
• From: ECHO (@ hobbiton.org) on: Mon Apr 17 21:24:04 EDT 2000
  
  Athi, u got me right, thanx.
  
  
• From: srikanth (@ ttdslppp82.sttl.uswest.net) on: Mon Apr 17 22:06:17 EDT 2000
  
  ... one day u'll paying the penalty.
  why one day, today is the day, i am paying a lot
  you are a genius.....i am nothing compared to you.
  sorry if i had hurt you...good bye.
  
  
  
  
• From: ECHO (@ hobbiton.org) on: Mon Apr 17 22:46:16 EDT 2000
  
  Srikanth, again u have mistaken, I meant ARR might have to pay the penalty in the future, not u.
  Im not a Genius as u call, im not fit for that, same way ARR doesnt fit for ur pointless amplified eulogize!
  
  
• From: suresh (@ dedicated-149.chn.vsnl.net.in) on: Tue Apr 18 00:06:19 EDT 2000
  
  eden
  
  
  yes, they were hits, but not blockbusters is what i meant. as for who told me, well, i happen to know the person who released the label -johnny sagarika- as we share our home town cherthala:)
  i hope that answers your "distort facts to prove our arguements!" charge..
  of course! just on the count of interludes, these later songs appear soulless. BTW, in the same movie, "naan thanga roja" has a rollicking violin interlude..
  as for `ennai thAlAtta varuvALO', it might have been a smash hit, but I view that as an example of IR's accommodation of current tastes rather than any outpour of fresh creativity.
  of course, hey raam was wonderful (except raamaranalum); i didn't deny any of that, did i?
  
  vijay:
  
  
  did i?
  <40-50 films a year and are making 50 X 5 = 250 songs even if 40% of them are junk , its still 100 songs>
  Yes, I only said that COULD be a reason why people stopped buying albums and started to selectively record. it's just another line of thought, take it or leave it..
  
  I'm sorry you also get down to assuming that someone who posts in disagreement with you starts off as a dumb opponent. This has been a singular trend in this forum; the moment someone makes a critical comment, you try and throw them off-balance with a raaga or a western arrangement. FYI, if you'd ever known me, you'll notice that i'm almost always the first person here to post a new album release of IR, even upto the recent 'kanna unnai thedugiren'. How many of you have honestly had the patience to go searching for an IR album on the 1st day of its release, even when it's relegated to some nondescript shelf-space? I'm still refusing to be provoked by your sweeping judgement 'just because they were not shown on sun TV.." :)
  
  
  
• From: Moorthy (@ 192.135.245.144) on: Tue Apr 18 01:12:52 EDT 2000
  
  Srikanth or whomever it is,
  A guy (ARR) who is in peak might get good/bad critics. You need not have to get offended with all these.
  
  Whatever you say about ARR, his tunes doesn't stays with soul. His BGM really sucks and his
  songs are not situation based (look at MounaRagam
  and Alaipayuthe). I am sorry to say this, Deva's
  BGM is better than ARR's.
  
  
• From: font police (@ psiphi.umsl.edu) on: Tue Apr 18 01:26:37 EDT 2000
  
  
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.221) on: Tue Apr 18 01:35:04 EDT 2000
  
  Suresh,
  its not trying to throw u off-balance or something like that. my knowledge is minimal compared to some of the musiccians who frequent these forums. Iam just pointing out the little facts that u tend to miss in your arguments. and its a fact that that chinna maapillai had other good songs also.
  its also a fact that songs like 'kaatukuyil paatu solla' (walter vetrivel)and 'nallathor veenai seithen' from marupadiyum are not shown and only the popular chart busters are shown. does'nt mean other songs are junk;))
  
  
• From: sishya (@ 216.91.105.7) on: Tue Apr 18 02:04:29 EDT 2000
  
  
  ECHO... you & athi are excellent... Are you a lawyer? You argue very very well and give nose cut to all ARR-fans... I like that...
  
  nalu per pesaranga.. doesnt mean exactly 4,
  
  Warewah.. what great statement...profound. you speak just like our god IR. right, athi?
  
  Anyway, ur list is a wrong example, they are not in the row. Let me give the fact : ...,may madham,bombay,pavithra,.......,kadhal desam,mr romeo,iruvar,minsara kanavu...
  
  supperrr sequence... No one can make sequence like this..ARR cannot write or compose sequences.. only IR and IR fans like me, echo, Athi can sequence like this... IR makes musical sequences, his fans also make great sequences like echo's wonderful sequence of movies
  
  how about pudhiya mannargal, vandi solai, pavithra... all songs are mega hits? :)
  
  Thirunelveli, tirumadi palanichaami songs are better hits... so what if they didnt run in sun TV? they came and stole all the hearts of all people in the world.. I, athi and ECHO listen to it everyday before we have morning coffee...that is what makes IR music great..
  
  if u play keyboard well that doesnt mean that u are a good composer, U may be a good driver, but its not ensured that u can reach the right place.
  
  Same logic, if you listen to music, that doesnt make you a good appreciater... if you dont appreciate IR, you dont become a good appreciater, if you dont expose ARRs fraud who lives on others money, you are not fit to be a human being... if you do not hate AR.R, you are not fit to live... right, athi & scho?
  
  ECHO, Please join our secret squad under the great leadership of Athi to expose ARR's all fraud.. We need you ECHO.. you are very valuable to us...
  
  

---

List all pages of this thread

Post comments