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Is TFM in a vicious cycle of degeneration?

Topic started by rajaG (@ 208.24.179.211) on Tue Sep 26 15:43:14 EDT 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I have checked the archives and for some reason a topic with a similar heading is gone!
So here's is some food for thought.

1. Actors like Ajith, Vijay, etc commanding MDs to copy from "English CDs" and set them to Indian lyrics.
2. MDs like Deva, Sirpi copying left, right and center, in situations excluding item 1 above.
3. Bad pronunciation of singers.
4. MDs like SAR repeating the same tune over and over and over......you get the point (and many times in the same film)
5. ARR not putting any effort in re-recording at all- merely playing the songs in the movie with slower/faster versions.
6. ARR, Srikanth (Deva's son), etc blatantly indulging in lip-synch activities. Other lesser known artists, engaged in karaoke singing. While this does not directly affect TFM it speaks for the lack of confidence in the talents of the artists.
7. Many occurences of really stupid lyrics - though most of them may be blamed on the director/producers adamant insistence or same boring situations.
8. Absence of thespians who could inspire Kannadasan, TMS, SPB, PS etc to give their best.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: peeps (@ 12.162.224.6) on: Thu Feb 20 15:37:39 EST 2003
  
  kiru,
  Can you please tell me what impressed u in "azhage azhagu" than "Andhi mazhai".Just curious.How its different from other IR melodies like Ex:nilavu thoongum neram?
  RaajaPaarvai itself is an excellently picturised movie.Numerous Poetic scenes.And I personally like the situation and the picturisation of the song Azhage azhagu more than Andhi mazhai.But anyday,I wud love to 'watch' "Azhage azhagu" and 'listen' to "Andhi mazhai".:-)
  
  
• From: bb (@ 206.154.118.2) on: Thu Feb 20 16:15:19 EST 2003
  
  "I recently recorded 2 full CDs of decent songs spanning 2002-03. "
  
  If it were the 80's or the 70's, you probably would record 5 or 10. I think that's the whole point of this discussion. The number of songs that are good, compared to the (g)olden days is less. Vidhyasagar or YSR might occasionally give a good song, but the majority are just sub-standard.
  
  My main complaint, though, is about lyrics not jelling with the music. Can't blame the lyricists, if the music has a fast western touch, traditional lyrics just doesn't get along.
  
  
• From: Lord LabakuDas (@ 12.162.224.6) on: Thu Feb 20 16:32:04 EST 2003
  
  bb,
  Fast western touch'uuku 'Sa Re Ga Ma Pa Dha Ne'a lyrics'a use pannikka vendiyathu thaan..:-)..like fast carnatic brighas(brigha's thaaney??!!) by TNS
  
  
• From: Thiru (@ 168.166.80.205) on: Thu Feb 20 16:52:52 EST 2003
  
  2 full cds in 2002-2003 ?? I'm yet to complete 1 full cd.:(( .. The current songs are great to listen in cars and music shows...it just doestn stick with you forever... whereas if I need to listen music in the night, I still go to my 60's to 80's collection..
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 66.81.142.92) on: Thu Feb 20 17:13:59 EST 2003
  
  guys,
  If there were sites that held on to new releases beyond the customary 2 weeks, I probably would've found more. There were several soundtracks I couldn't access anymore that I would've liked to. Yes, Vidhyasagar and YSR have revived TFM in a big way with Baradwaj and Harris Jeyaraj showing promising upside. If you spend time and search the good ones are out there. Again, the percentages are not far off, of course to conclude anything we need soundtrack by soundtrack comparison of 2002 to 82 or 92 to see the number of bad vs good songs.
  
  
• From: bb (@ 206.154.118.2) on: Thu Feb 20 18:59:50 EST 2003
  
  Udhaya, what do you feel about lyrics in current TFM? Do you think there is a drop in the standards?
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 66.81.129.172) on: Thu Feb 20 20:18:30 EST 2003
  
  Lyrical standards are holding steady since the 90s. If TFM provides more opportunities for all the lyricists of Tenali, along with Kapilan and Thamarai and bring in more new talents there is hope.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.150.249) on: Thu Feb 20 22:01:37 EST 2003
  
  Peeps..to you both melodies seem the same..But I like both, nice smooth flowing melodies (probably based on some raagam) with good lyrics (the other half of a song, apart from the tune). For eg. you might think idli is an idli ..to me I always am ready to try a very good one. Not that I dont like pancakes or waffles or omellettes !!! But you get my point. It is the quality ..it is the execution.
  Today's MDs are too focussed on the sound. They are making sure people immediately notice the song as different and fresh. So new sounds and arrangements are sought after. This is nothing wrong. This trend started way ..way long back .even before MSV. But we should consider this as a packaging issue only. The product inside should be different as well. Interesting tunes, good harmonies/chord is what a MD should strive for and encourage a good lyricist.
  
  Good or bad song can be subjective. I just tried to bring out some technical issues like ICM, WCM techniques used in a song to show that quality is not there. People like ARR are a good indicator we are capable of producing talented MDs. But mediocrity is thriving.
  
  
• From: mythila (@ 137.237.13.20) on: Fri Feb 21 12:01:28 EST 2003
  
  Saravanan, blame it on my memory!!!
  Some glaring ommissions of 81-82 are
  1.payanangal mudivathillai - need I say anything?
  2. Nenjathai killade - honey soaked songs (atleast 3 numbers paruvame, uravennum pudiya vanil, ye thenrale)
  3. Thooral ninnu pochu - many lovely numbers like
  Erikarai poongatre, thangachangili,
  boopaalam isaikkum.
  En sohakathaiyai - many call this dappa song. But I distinctly remember my paatu maami appreciating this song for the apt usage of Dhenuka raagam .
  She used to categorize soga songs into 3.
  1. Visumbal - Shubapanthuvaraali raagam
  2. Pulambal - Dhenuka raagam (Theliya ledu rama by Saint Thyagaraaja)
  3. Oppaari - Mukaari raagam
  Pootaada pootukkal - there are 2 great melodies I remember(Anandam anandam, vanna vanna pooncholaiyil)
  You have to believe me when I say that the gap I filled in Udayaa's list was spontaneous ,just based on my memory. I didn't refer to any database. That shows the indelible marks those 81-82 period songs have left. I will be surprised if Udayaa(God blessing him with the same stamina) will do the same 2001-2002 period song listing at 2023.
  Forget the quantity.Those songs ,listed good/great in the list seem to be par excellence.
  Post 95, lot of mediocre songs seem to come up in the garb of melody .
  I can give examples of few very mediocre songs appearing in top 5 in 2001-2002 period which were popular.
  1. EnnaVo ennaVo yennidam naan illai, yenakkoru snehidi snehidi ...
  (priyamanavale)
  2. Hey pushpachandira, pushpachandira - Vedam
  3. Yukhtamukhi, yukhtamukhi - poovellam vaasam
  4. Oru punnagai poove- film 12b
  5. all Gemini songs
  6. all shahjahan songs
  7. parthen parthen - Parthen rasithen
  It is not the bad , it is mediocrity which kills any art . Bad ones are easily identifiable and to identify mediocrity, u need real discerning sense.
  With internet, satellite throwing open gateways, it becomes a herculean task to sift thru and pick real good ones in the mass of mediocrity.
  Post 95, I have started listening to more Hindi numbers too. I find both HF and TF songs sharing the same quality. I can argue Anumalik's Ashoka, IsmaIL dARBAR'S DEVDAS , ShankarMahadevan & Co's DCH , ARR's Lagaan to have songs better than most songs of 2001-2002 period.That extra something which was there in TFM is no more existent.
  I dunno if we can call it degeneration or globalization
  
  
• From: Rameshb (@ 192.128.166.68) on: Fri Feb 21 12:34:51 EST 2003
  
  Nice topic!
  
  I am no SME (subject matter expert) on lyrics or TFM, but i can see the standard of TFM lyrics standard is in its inexplicable state. The diverse tastes of crossbreed culture coalesced in to a cosmopolitan society seem to drive the expectations. The MDs or lyricists choose to be driven as the goings are easy, where one has to be a smart-ass delivering what they want, and deliver it fast.
  
  Kannadasan and his contemperors enjoyed their time where the Monolithic standards set by them were hard to crack by their generation. Masses did not have an opportunity to expand their "wisdom" through a 14" TV in their living room. The undefiled imagination of the then generation was charismatically gaurded by prolific presentation of quality music with a semblance of world-wide (or western) tastes.
  
  70s was a golden era in TFM, when the likes of shankar ganesh, vijaya baskar, gkv , IR et. al revolutionalized TFM and set new expectations. The complexity started then (IMO) even as opportunity for mediocrity never existed at that time, thanks to the persistent creativity in their songs.
  
  We need someone like them (MDs of 70s) who can vouch for quality in the lyrics and creativity in their songs.
  
  
• From: peeps (@ 12.162.224.6) on: Fri Feb 21 13:25:10 EST 2003
  
  kiru,
  I like 'Azhage Azhagu' very much..Its a special one among lot of other melodies..but my question was in what way do u think its more special than 'andhi mazhai' song from the same film?
  u said "I think this(andhi mazhai) is a very ordinary song compared to 'azhagE azhagu dEvadhai'"..hope i made it clear..
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 66.81.140.154) on: Fri Feb 21 13:55:26 EST 2003
  
  Mythila,
  With all due respect, if you consider songs from "Poottaatha Poottukkal," a forgettable movie by Mahendran and IR, as one among the great melodies, then I won't argue with you about what is mediocrity.
  
  You should ask your paattu maami about Vidhyasagar's compositions. I wonder if she could appreciate the piano-laced opening of "Orae Manam" which transforms into a heavy metal interlude and swings right back to the main melody without disrupting the structural cohesion of the song. What does she or you think of "Mounamae Paarvayaai" from Anbae Sivam? It has a great melody, it even has SPB's throwback voice of the now-holy IR era.
  
  Do you have no superlatives to shed on Shankar Mahadevan's dexterity or Hariharan's brigas? If she could appreciate the raagam usage in "En Soga kathai" then I wonder what she would say about "Yaen Isaikku ingu kizhakku maerkku ena iru paergal", a mindblowing piece bridging Carnatic and Themmaangu seamlessly in "Popcorn" by Yuvan Shankar Raja.
  
  Kaadhal Virus, Run, Hey Nee Romba Azhaga Irukkae, Anbae Sivam all have groundbreaking tunes as well as wonderful melodies.
  
  If you only heard the deplorable "Kaadhal Pisase" from Run, you should go further and hear "Panikaatrae" which brings to mind a refresing snow breeze upon hearing. If "mellinamae" from Shahjahaan is mediocre then we have no basis for comparison between us. "Vaan Nila tharum" from "Kaadhal Virus" is the best Jazz number in Thamizh since Viswanathan-Ramamurthy days. How many among here gave a listen to "Kandupidi" by Sabesh Murali from Samuthiram? Has there ever been a salsa delight like "Aahaa enbaargal adadaa enbaargal" (BTW "poar kappal poala iru imai, paal sippi poala iru idhazh" rivals any analogy by VM in Payanangal Mudivathillai) from Vaseegaraa any time in TFM before? Perhaps, YSR's "Hey Sinorita" comes close. I would rank it right up there with any groundbreaking song of any time.
  
  Apparently melody is in the heart of the hearer. If you question why you hold the past as greater, I suspect the answer will rest in a nostalgic corner in your heart. As with any thing in life over time, progress has been made, some missteps happened but there's plenty to be cheerful about the future.
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 66.81.140.154) on: Fri Feb 21 14:09:08 EST 2003
  
  I forgot to add some other great contemporary tunes:
  -aagaya sooriyanai and moongil kaadugalae from "Samurai" by Harris Jeyaraj
  -puthum pudhu rojavae from "Roja Koottam" by Bharathwaj
  
  And a rebuttal to Mythila's Top 5, hey you pick "Oru punnagai poovae" from 12B, why not "Poovae Vaai Paesumboadhu"? I would listen to it in 20 years, trust me. And Yukthamugi? Why not "Kaadhal Vandhadhu"? from Poovellaam Vaasam? It's one of the happiest songs ever, it gives me the same happy feeling that "Bhaarathi Kannammaa" or "Vaa Ponmayilae" do. Come on, play fair. You want me to deride "Thanni thotti" from "Sindhu Bairavi" and forget the other songs?
  
  I haven't cared for Vedham or Gemini songs because I don't go by what's considered hot. I don't take what's handed down to me. I ferret it out for myself.
  
  

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