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Is TFM in a vicious cycle of degeneration?

Topic started by rajaG (@ 208.24.179.211) on Tue Sep 26 15:43:14 EDT 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I have checked the archives and for some reason a topic with a similar heading is gone!
So here's is some food for thought.

1. Actors like Ajith, Vijay, etc commanding MDs to copy from "English CDs" and set them to Indian lyrics.
2. MDs like Deva, Sirpi copying left, right and center, in situations excluding item 1 above.
3. Bad pronunciation of singers.
4. MDs like SAR repeating the same tune over and over and over......you get the point (and many times in the same film)
5. ARR not putting any effort in re-recording at all- merely playing the songs in the movie with slower/faster versions.
6. ARR, Srikanth (Deva's son), etc blatantly indulging in lip-synch activities. Other lesser known artists, engaged in karaoke singing. While this does not directly affect TFM it speaks for the lack of confidence in the talents of the artists.
7. Many occurences of really stupid lyrics - though most of them may be blamed on the director/producers adamant insistence or same boring situations.
8. Absence of thespians who could inspire Kannadasan, TMS, SPB, PS etc to give their best.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.23.185) on: Sat Sep 30 21:39:42 EDT 2000
  
  SL : Was your post a laconic reformulation of mine ? :-) I agree with you.
  
  
• From: karthi (@ 63.15.178.185) on: Sun Oct 1 00:04:01 EDT 2000
  
  fan, what you said about people going to hindi movies may be true, but it may not be why they buy hindi cassettes - if anything, they must surely not buy them especially after seeing the movie, and hearing the songs, right? So, I think it's sheer mindlessness! (which is what is fashionable? :)))
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 207.218.69.3) on: Mon Oct 2 01:23:00 EDT 2000
  
  MS,
  The downside on spontaneous discussions in the DF is that it allows for in-depth scrutiny by a third party reading them much later and without the knowledge of the circumstance or the tone of the discussion that generated the post. Perhaps, I should have made a middle-of-the-road statement, away from generalizations, but it was SL baiting me (kiddingly) on my hatred of HFM to wrap me in a conservative label. This made me talk about my other musical interests to show how I'm not conservative (not to agrandize myself for attention; that exposure to other music warrants any kind of superiority is an elitist notion that I would be prone to ridicule). At that point, I felt that I was indulging personally instead of keeping with the thread and so SL and I took the discussion off the DF. If it reads as holier than thou, it wasn't meant to be.
  
  On what is fashionable: It is doing something for the kind of exclusive or inclusive status it gives you. I find many (not all, see, no generalities in this statement!) South Indians listening to HFM without understanding the language or the alleged musical merit because they somehow feel inferior about owning up to the distinct rural sounds characteristic of South Indian music. This is my observation. I know it may not be a fashionable one, but I stand by it.
  
  
• From: kanthimathi (@ 203.199.80.193) on: Mon Oct 2 03:05:34 EDT 2000
  
  Hey, looks like there is a lot of digression from the topic... Are we trying to find out whether TFand TFM is degenerating as an isolated fact, or in comparison with HF and HFM? If it is in comparison, there is no doubt that we are light years ahead of HF in quality, experimentation, innovation and execution. The complete crap they turn out in the name of music and movies is really quite sad. There seems to be such paucity of ideas. Nijamave, Biwi No. 1 (which was a remake of Sathi Leelavathi) paathu kannula ratham vanthuthu enakku. Compromise pannarathukku oru alave illaya? Athula Anu Malik oda music vera...
  
  In isolation as well, I don't think TF/TFM is degenerating. Eden, please do not try to scare us with facts and figures. I quite agree that with changing times, TF/TFM has a big challenge to adapt fast, but I think with the talent around, it shouldn't be a problem.
  
  I had the good fortune of working on some ad films with one of Rajiv Menon's ex- assistant directors, a person who is barely 25, and I was delighted with th depth of knowledge and creativity this person exhibited. Not to mention the fantastic use of music and sounds...With such vibrant, young talented people around, I feel that the future of TF/TFM is quite safe.
  
  
• From: cram (@ 206.103.12.102) on: Mon Oct 2 06:03:28 EDT 2000
  
  fan
  
  you hit the nail on the head. naanga school, college padikkara kaalaththile, watching "agni natchaththiram" or "idhayam" with girlfriends was fashionable. today, it's the hindi rubbish that has taken its place. there is a serious crisis as far as music appreciation goes in chennai (strictly IMHO).
  
  
• From: Jay Narayanasamy (@ 63.17.7.231) on: Thu Oct 5 22:17:10 EDT 2000
  
  Good to see the mathematical(statistical) approach of measuring/comparing the quality of songs. But these sample datas wont help us much - in most of the cases it would lead us into confusion instead of making any conclusion. The strange part of mathematics.
  
  I remember few good songs in 70’s(don’t know the exact years) Kalaimagal kai porulE, Ezhu swarangalukkul, kAttrukkenna vEli, unnidathil ennai koduthEn. All of them are great in terms of music, lyrics and voice. The perfect balance and equal contibutition from md, lyricist and singer, esp uek is excellent!! I doubt any other singer could perform as sj did. Kathalil sikki thavikkum a deep emotional song!
  
  In the given ‘81 list I would say viZhiyil vizhunthu and anthi mazhai are good. Certainly at any point of time these two songs are capable of making waves in our memory which cant be explained in words. When we analyze songs we miss to take this “impacts” into account.
  
  Sangamam(award winning song) and sinEkithanE are two good songs in the recent times. As others claim it has – vaira varikaL, sound, layer technology, voice, music etc etc. Applying analytical skill can I derive the equation like this:
  
  Unnidathil ennai koduthEn = sinEkithanE and Vizhiyil vizhunthu/ anthi mAzhai = sangamam?
  
  Again mathematics fails:-)
  
  
• From: Jay Narayanasamy (@ 63.22.229.203) on: Fri Oct 6 10:38:38 EDT 2000
  
  correction: contribution, I doubut if any. Thooka kalakathil ekapatta mistakes. SorkutRam mannikkapaduvathaka!
  
  
• From: manokaran (@ ) on: Tue Nov 14 06:08:42 EST 2000
  
  want to know about old tamil movie ``karnan ``
  pls give the praying wordings from this movie.
  thankyou
  
  
• From: MANOKARAN (@ 204.160.183.15) on: Tue Nov 14 06:11:00 EST 2000
  
  PLEASE SEND THE OLD MOVIE KARNAN LYRICS ESPCIALLY
  THE PRAYING SCENE.
  THANKYOU
  
  
• From: chitra devi (@ ) on: Thu Feb 20 02:54:30 EST 2003
  
  please send new lyrics
  
  
• From: mythila (@ 137.237.12.102) on: Thu Feb 20 12:53:03 EST 2003
  
  Trying to fill the gaps in Udayaa's list
  Balanagamma - has 4 lovely songs1. Kundalile megham vandu(a landmark in TFM for Bilahari raaga usage)
  2. Sangeetham en degam anro- this raaga also has never been used in TFM before
  3. Palliaraikul malligaiyai -by UR
  4. Nee koduthu sivanthathamma a melody sung by PS and SJ
  
  Garjanai
  Has 4 very good songs
  1. Varuvaai anbe tharuvai onru(from Simhendramadhyamam raagam sung by SJ and TKSKalaivanan
  2. Oru ooril oru maharaani by MV
  3. Enna sugamaana ulagam (lovely melody by UR
  4. Vandadu nalladu nalla idam - a good number by SJ and SPB
  Indru Poi Naalai Vaa
  Has one good melody by PS and MV
  1. Palanaal aasai
  
  Kadal Meengal has 2 good additions
  Has a very good fusion(carnatic with western interleaved )-enrenrum anandame by MV
  Maane oru mangala chippi un thaaye - a sheer melody from PS
  
  Kazhugu
  Has 3 good songs
  1.Ponnoviyam - listen to the chorus and lovely parts by IR and SJ
  2. Oru poovanathile
  3. Thedum deivam neril vandadu (SJ and MV based on Keeravani raaga)
  Koilpura
  1. Sangeethame enjeevane (a path breaking song in TFM for the usage of Rasikapriya , a rare raaga
  2. Vedam nee iniya naadam nee (only song in TFM in Gowla raagam) -
  All the songs in this film are subjects of discussion and analysis in the music college where my mother works.
  Nandu
  You missed out Manjal veyil a kalyani raaga melody by UR.
  Netrikkan
  Maapillaikku maaman manasu - based on Karaharapriya is an interesting song too.
  Tick, Tick, Tick
  Idu oru nillakaalam with great interludes is my all time favourite
  Vidiyumvarai Kathiru
  No Udayaa,
  there are 2 other good ones in this list.
  1. Neengaada ennam onru nenjodu ulladu - lovely duet by SJ and MV based on Kalyaani raaga
  2. another pure classical song female solo where the heroine is doing bharathnatyam (I don't remember the lyrics)
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.150.249) on: Thu Feb 20 13:46:11 EST 2003
  
  mythila, I see that you mention a lot about the raagams of songs. This makes discuss something about the current trend in TFM. Upto, IR, I feel, TFM was a ICM+WCM fusion genre. After that, I dont see anybody taking fusion seriously. We just get an indian melody with western rhythms, and many a times, these are used from off-the-shelf loop CDs.
  (BTW, some of the songs you mention above are my all time favorites - neengAdha ennam onRu, ponnOviyam, koonthalilE mEgam..)
  The media does not mention anything about IRs use of WCM, there is a guy, vaamanan, writing a series in webzine, about IR, but he never mentions about the harmony layers in the mEgam karukkaiyilE song in vaidEhi kathirunthaaL. I consider this song musically equal in quality if not better than other ICM based songs in that movie.
  People mention about andhi mazhai song in raaja paarvai. I think this is a very ordinary song compared to 'azhagE azhagu dEvadhai'.
  Basically, I feel, we are loosing our appreciation for pure indian melodies, which are well structured.
  Because of the lack of importance to ICM or WCM in the current songs, I feel there is no quality. What do you think ?
  
  
• From: bb (@ 206.154.118.2) on: Thu Feb 20 14:38:57 EST 2003
  
  kiru, well pointed out. i would like to see western tunes with indian rhythms for a change.
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 66.81.142.92) on: Thu Feb 20 15:21:16 EST 2003
  
  Mythila,
  I applaud your patience and energy in reviving this thread, reading the old responses and adding to them. I will gladly add the good songs to the good songs list. Now who will add the bad songs? Looking back, I have been very generous in adding only 2 bad songs for the unknown movies.
  
  I wouldn't mind reviving this debate. Yes, I still feel the same. I recently recorded 2 full CDs of decent songs spanning 2002-03. While radio did the job of broadcasting songs in earlier periods, internet more than compensates for the availability of songs these days. If you don't want to spend the time to look for new releases (and collect the good songs) and just go by what Sun TV plays, then you are doomed to gloom.
  
  
• From: Saravanan (@ 213.42.1.164) on: Thu Feb 20 15:27:18 EST 2003
  
  Mythila- wonder why you omitted the awesome 'Kaadhalennum Kovil'-Kazhugu and 'Manmadha ragangaley'-VJ and 'Unmayai kaakkum'-SP Shailaja-Balanagamma.
  
  The classical song in Vidyumvarai kaathiru is 'Abinayam kaattu'- a superb song by SJ.
  
  

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