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COPYING - IN TAMIL FILM HISTORY

Topic started by s.senthilkumar (@ 203.197.154.163) on Mon Jan 24 07:23:36 EST 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

i think "copying" is there for a long time in tamil film history.Here we discuss the tamil songs copied from others.

For a compilation of copied/inspired songs: http://copied.newtfmpage.com

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.23.185) on: Wed Aug 2 12:24:57 EDT 2000
  
  punching - typo.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.26.123) on: Wed Aug 2 13:37:27 EDT 2000
  
  Karthik,
  i dont think its just a similiarity of the raga alone. taj mahaal thevai illai has clearly been inspired by the violion pieces from aanandha raagam.IR fan is right.
  
  
• From: Karthik (@ 12.10.193.123) on: Wed Aug 2 23:58:19 EDT 2000
  
  Dear Athi,
  
  Like MS says, I was really annoyed at the outlandish instances sundar had quoted. There are very good instances of where rahman has coppied. So if you cannot come up with something decent, you should'nt go out to town with your halfbaked ideas. This is what I was trying to convey to Sundar.
  
  Sorry if I was harsh. Yes I'm a ARR fan. But I have grown up with IR's music and nothings ever gonna change it.
  
  Karthik
  
  
• From: Naveen Jebaraj (@ 192.43.65.245) on: Fri Aug 4 14:36:52 EDT 2000
  
  
  ARR's 'Tara Rum Pum Pum' (Jodi) song's stanza ending is inspired from a Tamil Christian song (keerthanai) 'Dhaasare itharaniay anbaai' stanza ending.
  This song is sung in most of the Tamil churches.
  but the mood is entirely different..
  
  
• From: Gyani (@ 209.43.48.180) on: Fri Aug 4 17:48:33 EDT 2000
  
  I was watching Sean Connery, Richard Gere "First Knight" guess what Climax fight sequence BGM is a lift from ARR's "Muthelvane Muthelvane" song's English piece. or it may be other way around :).
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.221) on: Fri Aug 4 22:07:12 EDT 2000
  
  I dont know which one of these songs came first. But it looks like 'meghame meghame' was heavily inspired(tune, interludes) by 'chupke chupke' the famous ghulam ali ghazal from Nikaah if the tamil song had come afterwards.
  
  
• From: AMALRAJ (@ 203.199.224.27) on: Sat Aug 5 10:05:43 EDT 2000
  
  NOW I SAY
  
  "MANOOTHO MANDHAYILE" IS GREATLY INSPIRED BY "VAADI EN KAPAKIZHANGE" FROM ALAIGAL OIVATHILAI" PERHAPS COPIED
  
  COMMENTS PLEASE
  
  
• From: AMALRAJ (@ 203.199.224.27) on: Sat Aug 5 10:06:13 EDT 2000
  
  NOW I SAY
  
  "MANOOTHO MANDHAYILE" FROM KILAKU SEMAYILE IS GREATLY INSPIRED BY "VAADI EN KAPAKIZHANGE" FROM ALAIGAL OIVATHILAI" PERHAPS COPIED
  
  COMMENTS PLEASE
  
  
• From: Madhan (@ 202.41.117.61) on: Sun Aug 6 00:15:35 EDT 2000
  
  There is another blatant copy from an old Hindi song - I was listening to Chaya Geet of All India Radio - the tune of the song was exactly the humming interlude of "Raasaathhi yen usiru yennudhilla" from THIRUDA THIRUDA
  
  
• From: fan (@ 63.226.195.29) on: Sun Aug 6 01:39:13 EDT 2000
  
  Hi,
  I was watching amercian beauty,
  
  when kevinS get attracted to his daugthers class mate and finally stays away from it.
  a song is played as bgm, (almost end of the movie) ,
  
  Opening scores are just like,
  "thevan thiruchabai malargale", old raja song.
  ---->pallavi looks very much same,
  
  My friend tells me there are similar old songs with same the start, I have asked him the audio, will post it here soon.
  
  Can someone check on this.
  
  Madhan can you please tell the hindi song.
  
  
  
• From: Karthik (@ 38.31.125.76) on: Sun Aug 6 01:57:10 EDT 2000
  
  MS,
  
  My only intent in that posting was to point
  out to Karthik about avoiding making personal attacks on another tfm contributor. In fact Sundar
  has not defended IR in his posting but only
  pointed out that ARR copies as much as Deva which
  is not an exaggeration. Also Karthik while
  replying to Sundar has pointed out songs
  in IR's music which have been copied in some
  parts according to him. Now tell me who
  is trying to defend whom for what and why
  Karthik has to point out an unrelated thing
  (IR's music) for defending ARR's music.
  
  Anyway Karthik himself has admitted that
  he could have been milder in that posting and
  there ends the issue.
  
  Athi
  
  
• From: mangal (@ 203.199.224.134) on: Sun Aug 6 03:54:23 EDT 2000
  
  film : kathalar dinam
  song : enna vilai azhagai...
  
  copied from : m.g.r. song(no idea about the film)
  song : thanga padhakathin malae.....
  
  
• From: IRfan (@ 193.188.124.130) on: Tue Aug 8 04:16:07 EDT 2000
  
  Theme music (Ennio Morricone - For a few dollars more)
  
  It has an other inspired song.
  
  Song : Music piece of "E nilave .." (Played at recording theatre)
  Film : Mugavari
  MD : (who else ?) DEVA
  
  Watch the whistle closely. You may identify it.
  
  
• From: Karthik S (@ 12.10.193.123) on: Tue Aug 8 06:23:33 EDT 2000
  
  I just zeroed in on a song by a Middle Eastern singer, Hisham Abbas, from who's one of the songs Sirpi has copied his tune for 'azhagiya laila' in Ullathai Alli Tha. Now the person who posted this info in another thread has gone on vacation. Can any other TFM folks in the Middle East lemme know which song by Hisham Abbas is the original? I have tried almost all his songs available on the net, in vain!
  
  Karthik
  
  
• From: Cheenu (@ 63.253.7.117) on: Wed Aug 9 03:24:23 EDT 2000
  
  Could not resist......sorry for digressing from TFM....ARR's 'Qismat se hum' from Pukar is an intelligent copy of SD Burman's composition in Tilang 'Kaise kahe hum pyaar ne humko kya kya khEl dikhaye' from Sharmilee.
  
  
• From: Cheenu (@ 63.253.7.117) on: Wed Aug 9 03:29:41 EDT 2000
  
  V Kumar's madanorstavam rathiyOduthan from sathurangam has the same metre as Manaa hO thum (sung by KJ Yesudoss and tuned by ...wait a minute....Bappi Lahiri :-))).
  
  
  
• From: NagaS (@ 194.149.80.1) on: Wed Aug 9 04:18:56 EDT 2000
  
  Cheenu.,
  'Madanotsavam' or 'Maana ho thum' ? Which one came first ?
  
  Madanotsavam has been lifted by Aadityan as 'Azagooviyam' in movie 'Roja Malaree ..'. He still calls it his own tune., ;-)
  
  NagaS
  
  
• From: sundar (@ 203.197.134.188) on: Wed Aug 9 04:39:53 EDT 2000
  
  here are a few ARR's cut & paste songs.
  ARR original
  1 Varai en thozhi oh mere sona re sona
  2. kuchu kuchu rakkamma sentamizh then mozhiyal
  3. Ooo la la.. (pallavi) Raja magal roja malar..
  4. doli doli..(kadal enum) adu naan allava thunai nee allava( malai charalil elam poonguil)
  5. kadal kaditham.. devamirutham then edazhgaL devargal illai naan vanden(payanam)
  6. mazhai tuli mazhai tuli.. engeyum eppodhum sangeetahm santhosham..(ninaithale inikkum)
  7. sonia sonia sokkathangam.. yaradi nee mohini ohini (uttama puthiran)
  8. uppukaruvadu… Pappa pattu padiya
  Bharathi..(irukodugal)
  9. Kurrukku siruthavaLe.. piya bina..(Abhimaan)
  10. taal se…(Taal) kali ghodi baar kadi
  
  there are many more. hence there is a close call for the king of copying in TFM.
  
  
  
• From: Bala (@ 192.135.215.21) on: Wed Aug 9 12:52:44 EDT 2000
  
  Can anyone explain how kuchi kuchi is a copy of sentamizh then mozhiyal. Either I am deaf or there is note in the 15th word of the 18th line which is similar which cannot be deciphered by an average music fan like me or probably sundar is just bored and kidding us.
  If it is a joke, sorry sundar I don't get it
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.149) on: Wed Aug 9 13:03:03 EDT 2000
  
  Bala,
  Kuchi kuchi raakamma is not a copy but is a strong candidate for an inspiration. the raga Kappi is used in both cases, snadhams similiar and its not a note but an entire line that is similiar. listen to the line 'pombalaikku then pidikum' in kuchi kuchi and then compare it with 'parukida thalai kunivaal' from the original.its ditto.
  
  and added to all this is the known penchant of ARR to cleverly adapt old songs to the present situation without making it look too blatant an inspiration or copy.
  
  
• From: pg (@ 12.20.190.1) on: Wed Aug 9 14:02:14 EDT 2000
  
  also add :
  
  kaNNAmoochi EnadA - rAdha samEdhA krishnA
  enna vilai azhagE - thappadhakathin mElE
  rOjA rOjA rOjA - ennai vittAl yArumillai (copy of a copy of a ...)
  
  bala : if you cannot hear the similarities - the very obvious pattern of arr's composing - then your first choice (either/or) must be true.
  
  
• From: Bala (@ 192.135.215.21) on: Wed Aug 9 15:25:08 EDT 2000
  
  Given my limited music knowledge, I understand that if two songs use the same raaga, then there is bound to be some similarities between the songs.It cannot be called a copy or a inspiration.
  According to me, inspiration occurs when somebody uses a new form of music (Like say arab style, latin style etc etc.) which is not part of our music heritage. Mostly it is the way instruments are used and the flow of the song.
  If using kaapi raga can be called a inspiration, then every MD out there is inspired by something for every song.
  I may be wrong but according to me if we dissect every song , no matter who the MD is, we can find similarities to something.After all I am told there are only seven basic notes in music.
  The average music fan (like me) can identify blatant copies but if some notes match or if one line sounds similar, I think it was a coincidence
  
  
  
• From: Unmai Virumbi (@ 134.113.200.15) on: Wed Aug 9 15:35:04 EDT 2000
  
  hello Mr PG
  Kannamoochi Enda and Radha Samedha Krishnavikkum enna sumbundham can you please justify,this is a exaggeration from muthamil.com site,if you know that keerthani and have u listened to it u wouldnt say this, Please
  verify before writing
  Kannamoochi is based on Natakurinji ragam
  And the famous Radha samedha krishna sung often by the legend GNB is Misra Yaman
  now if you can sing ,sing the pallavi slowly both the songs and then justify...
  
  Unmai Virumbi
  
  
• From: Unmai Virumbi (@ 134.113.200.15) on: Wed Aug 9 15:35:16 EDT 2000
  
  hello Mr PG
  Kannamoochi Enda and Radha Samedha Krishnavikkum enna sumbundham can you please justify,this is a exaggeration from muthamil.com site,if you know that keerthani and have u listened to it u wouldnt say this, Please
  verify before writing
  Kannamoochi is based on Natakurinji ragam
  And the famous Radha samedha krishna sung often by the legend GNB is Misra Yaman ragam
  now if you can sing ,sing the pallavi slowly both the songs and then justify...
  
  Unmai Virumbi
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.160) on: Wed Aug 9 16:30:46 EDT 2000
  
  bala,
  the similiarity does not end with the raga. ARR has borrowed some phrases, sequences of notes from the original song. and note that i didnt say it was a copy. but there is enough evidence to say that the tamil song is an inspiration. after all every time we say that this MD was inspired by such and such song we are only making inteliigent guesses based on the context of the artist involved, his style of music making and our on limited knowledge.
  
  no one actually goes inside ARRs recording theatre to see from which western song ARR is copying or getting inspired etc. if u feel that it is not an inspiration u aer welcome to think so and write your opinions based on why u think that they are not. pudhu style'la music potaa thaan inspiration endu artham illai. u can get inspired even after listening to some of the thyagaraka krithis and without u realisng(or in some cases willingly)it u can incorporate those select notes in your song when u are composing.
  
  This can happen to any MD. and finally, inspiration is something which u strongly feel but in most of the instances cannot put it down in words. atleast it is difficult for average music listeners. maybe if u talk to someone face to face u can discuss more. but u have to listen and feel it for yourself.
  
  

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