Topic started by M.Anand (@ ihproxy1.proxy.lucent.com) on Tue Jan 18 01:03:04 EST 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
hi all, I am Anand from bangalore and a new visitor to the tfm page. I am a great fan of both ARR and IR. I browsed through all the earlier threads on ARR and IR. It seems to me that there are quite a few anti ARRs out here.
Let me tell you something about IRs music. IRs music became popular and sounded different because he tried to bring in a westernization of Carnatic ragas in his songs. Even a dappanguthu was in Lathaangi or sivaranjani. That actually made the difference. Otherwise he is no great MD. One might argue that such a westernization or incorporation of a carnatic raga in a dappanguthu or jazz is something that demands great applause. But IR doesn't deserve that because, if u say u are tuning a song in a particular raagam, you have to bring out the nuances, the laya and bhaava of the raagam in to the song. Just traversing the swaras in the raagam here and there does not mean that u have tuned a song in that raagam. Ilayaraaja has done just that, a mere traversal through the swaras. In many places, there were apaswaras also. ARR has tuned very few songs based on Carnatic ragas but they were classics. For example Mettu podu in Anjali is a beautiful song in Ananda Bhairavi. He has brought out every nuance of the raagam in that song. Minsaara Kanna in padaiyappa is an excellent piece in vasantha. En mel vizhunda mazhai tuliye is again a beautiful piece in kaapi. A real mix of the east and west. That is what u call fusion. Ilayaraaja boasts of having composed songs in rare raagas like chala nattai, kanakangi etc. For example pani vizhum malar vanam in chala nattai is again a pure note traversal. There was no attempt to bring out the nuances in the raaga. So IR knew how to make songs sound good but ARR gives a fine polish to each and every one of his songs. IR composed music for 700 odd films. Hey Ram is his 785th film. Considering 7 songs per movie, he has tuned almost 5500 songs. Huge number indeed but hardly 5% of those songs are listenable others are 100% pure junk. But 99.9% of ARRs songs are listenable and they are also good numbers. What do you say about this?
Regards,
Anand
Responses:
- Old responses
- From: srikanth (@ host2.cvs.aa.net)
on: Fri Apr 14 16:29:11 EDT 2000
Echosir (i like to know your actual name)....let us stay away from hatered...i am sorry I have irritated you personally somewhere,
the basic talk was rahaman having creative or not...Mr.Athi, never tells anything other than the word recycling, inspite of his so called recycling how arr is able to produce mega hits?,
give me a valid answer...leave the raja issue behind, raja is great no doubt... you like raja
i like him too!...world likes him too...
what is the reason that you hate arr for?
(might be you hate he is been compared to raja, if so you should hate arr fans not arr
-- or..a music lover will not do so, most of the postings will be refute charges against arr, ends up in raja bashing.)
How arr is able to produce mega hit?
(dont blame that general public have changed, Basically tfm MD's cater to the people.
and public are no fools...I say this because
me and you are part of it.:)
also
Digital effects, analog effects all that are vetti talks, a good song will a song good in anlog or digital,
IMHO I dont see any harm in using digital recording, it gives more clarity.
using analog recording might be the best for few, it is like saying black and white is the best of form picture production, why all most all the movies are in color then?
Digital makes things easier, thats all, it never
increases the music quality,
Sitting and recording on a 24 track analog is a pain, that too if you have some n number of instruments placed, to get the best quality we need to get the best engineers in the world,
(for passion sake we can set up a huge vaccum tube based mixers)
How many of us go in search of a cow to get milk?, :)) is is fesible...?
I also request please remove misnorm about digital recording.
- From: srikanth (@ host2.cvs.aa.net)
on: Fri Apr 14 16:32:11 EDT 2000
typo :
a good song will a good song in anlog or digital.,
- From: Santhanam Gopi (@ 64.newark-31-32rs.nj.dial-access.att.net)
on: Fri Apr 14 16:36:59 EDT 2000
Rjay said:
Later, composers learn how to take a note sequence and tranform it in such a way that a lay listener will deny the similarity.
haris said:
not poomalai..
What a profound statement by RJAY? Haris has given a live illustration of "listener denying similarity". His denial is Raja's victory.
Kudos to Maestro.
- From: hihi:-) (@ psiphi.umsl.edu)
on: Fri Apr 14 16:39:20 EDT 2000
srikanth,
it's just a digression and a bait for you.ansel adam's best pictures are his black and whites and not his colors. i have seen a lot of examples of both ;-)
- From: srikanth (@ host2.cvs.aa.net)
on: Fri Apr 14 16:47:14 EDT 2000
Mr.HiHi (sonthanur Guindya:)
...matinadhane....:)
thats what I say why still movies are in color,
why can't they make movies in black and white.
etho thonithu, also VVI (vera velai illai) ....so a big posting, competing with Ravi...(rjay)
- From: Athi (@ wwwgate1.motorola.com)
on: Fri Apr 14 19:24:07 EDT 2000
Echo,
I have become an admirer of your postings
as it seems to leave many of the (un)biased
music lovers speechless. As you know, most
of IR's immortal compositions are in the Echo
Cassettes and may be the name has some
influence !
Your reply to Mr.Srikanth is excellent and
even I wouldn't have written in such a nice
way.
These (un)biased music lovers can't decide
that I haven't grown up just because Iam
criticizing ARR when everyone praises him
for any reason that they can find(may be
the (un)biased music lovers will soon start
appreciating him for getting inspired by
some obscure international song and will
conclude that he is doing his best to make
tfm(and indian film music) international !)
And ARR's songs becoming megahits, the reasons
have been analyzed enough earlier and
the musical merit is the last(or may be
none of) among them. As you have written,
may be for the (un)biased music lovers
the masterpieces are the albums composed for the big names.
May be Mr.Srikanth didn't read the latest
interview by ARR where he has mentioned that
he has never copied anyone. There can't be
a bigger lie than this and anyway when ARR
copies, it will be called inspiration and
he will be appreciated for thinking(recycling)
differently.
Anyone who writes against ARR, is subject to
derogotary remarks in this forum by the (un)biased music lovers and it has become a common
trend nowadays. And these people frequently
remind everyone that it is a democratic forum.
So much so for their interpretation of
democracy !
As someone has written, there should be a
intellectual protection act in india for
music compositions and ARR will be the biggest
casualty of that if it happens and all these (un)biased music lovers will know what his true
colors are.
And the person who recycles, deserves to be
criticized and not the unfortunate souls
who listen to it. And it just shows why
Mr.Srikanth ridicules the people who like
IR's music (going by his suggestions).
Athi
- From: Neel (@ ts004d06.har-ct.concentric.net)
on: Fri Apr 14 19:51:09 EDT 2000
Boy... did somebody vent!!!??? Good argument though.
- From: Srinath (@ 63-217-90-105.sdsl.cais.net)
on: Fri Apr 14 20:25:57 EDT 2000
Athi:
You and ECHO haven't made one useful or meaningful statement so far. Every post of yours' is a jab at ARR. It's disgusting the way you go on and on about how ARR copied. Does your knowledge extend to anything beyond the misconception that ARR copies ? Do you even know anything about IR's music apart from the fact that you like it ? Either talk sense or stuff it.
- From: MS (@ 129.252.22.9)
on: Fri Apr 14 20:34:16 EDT 2000
maavu puLikkuthE..:-)
- From: haris (@ inet-fw3-o.oracle.com)
on: Fri Apr 14 20:35:49 EDT 2000
misconception that ARR copies
srinath.. :-) ?? :-(
azhuvadhA! chirippadhA!!
- From: ECHO (@ hobbiton.org)
on: Fri Apr 14 21:14:20 EDT 2000
Srikanth,
how arr makes mega hits?? million dollar ques. varisaya nalu padam flop aana therium answer. "Mustafa Mustafa" kku pathil "Govinda Govinda" p(o)ada vendiyathu than. I know the place where these fools at kodambakkam give him. I dont hate him, but he should not make others fool! From ordinary listener to Subbudu criticises him. so dont waste ur time posting against when ppl say that, its in vain. If think im a raja fan, im sorry, till today I manages to listen all of the MDs in tfm. ur argument on Athi may be valid.(I think he'll keep repeating as long as ARR repeats, :) ). Ur defending statement on digital is good, I dont deny that. But ur comparison is irrelevant, when B&W movies were there, story played main role, after color, we see Balu, "iruttu" Sriram, heyram guy and more in action. Some of them went ahead directing movies like Rajiv.
>>Echosir (i like to know your actual name)....
>>let us stay away from hatered...
>>i am sorry I have irritated you personally somewhere,
my name here is ECHO..echo..cho..cho..ho..ho..o..o.. I dont write in different names like u guys do (including u). U havent posted anyhing against personally, i appreciate that ur postings have been so decent so far. ok, now, can u tell us y u get "nervous"ed when u see something against ARR?
Athi,
Thanks, I post what i feel, but some times u may not like my postings. Advanced "Sorry". (just kidding)
- From: Lakshmi Ramanathan (@ 203.197.205.221)
on: Fri Apr 14 21:33:02 EDT 2000
Athi,
Name one composition of ARR which is a copy of MOZART or Beethoven, or digitally recycled. If ARR is geniuos and creative and if he is different, it soesn't mean, he must be copying. Learn appreciate different kind of music without prejudice. I am not comparing IR and ARR.
LR
- From: haris (@ inet-fw3-o.oracle.com)
on: Fri Apr 14 21:36:59 EDT 2000
LR,
what about roja roja (kadhalar dinam) = kodutha sandhangalil ( varumayin niram sivappu..) ( copy..)
suthi suthi = pachai kiligal.. ( recycled..)
prelude.thillana thilla = island of dr. moreau..
- From: ECHO (@ hobbiton.org)
on: Fri Apr 14 21:47:02 EDT 2000
LR, for digitally recycled play nila kaykirathu pallavi and saranam of antha arabi kadaloram in lower tempo, and let us know what u feel.
for BEE and MOZ , if he had listened all their work, he wouldnt be copying like this.
If u have more doubt , raid his home-studio, u will see all the latin albums where his mega hits came from.
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