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CLAIMING ILAYARAJA - AS THE ALL TIME BEST MUSICIAN

Topic started by SATHIYAVAGEESWARAN (@ client-151-200-126-20.bellatlantic.net) on Sat Jan 3 00:26:02 EST 1998.
All times in EDT/EST +9:30/10:30 for IST.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: badri raghavan (@ 206.103.12.125) on: Mon Apr 20 00:52:04 EDT 1998
  
  this is further to some comments on ilayaraja as a singer.
  
  most of the songs sung by raja (either featuring or not featuring in the movie) would perhaps
  be for his own personal satisfaction. most of them would not rate a regular song in the movie. i
  can quote examples of naanaaga naanilai thaye (thoongade thambi thoongade), idayam oru kovil (idayakovil) which are just awful. possibly good for track but nothing else. exceptions are janani, then paandi seemaiyile. ( i am taking samples of both pleasant and not so). ennai thallata varuvalo is another instance of ir trying to record good songs in his voice perhaps for his own satiation.
  
  this is in no way a reflection of raja's calibre as a MD.
  
  
  
  
• From: Ravy (@ eagle.vapower.com) on: Mon Apr 20 15:31:04 EDT 1998
  
  Badri,
  
  I too felt the same way as you did when I listened to Ennai thalata varuvaLa. IR does it to most of the good tunes just to feed off his ego. But to be fair to IR, his pronounciation is impeccable in that song, especially in that line 'konjam poru, kolusoli kEtkiradhE'.
  
  
• From: Mano (@ 137.122.109.86) on: Mon Apr 20 19:21:35 EDT 1998
  
  Raja's voice:
  There is no second thought about Raja's talent as a music director. I definitely agree. But he used to sing very few songs. I can list all the good ones.
  Metti oli katraodo..
  Kathal enbathu pothu..
  Naan thedum sevanthi..
  Nila adhu vaana..
  Orampoo..
  Saamack kozhi..
  
  Well I could continue this, but what I am trying to say is that he sings a lot now a days such as in avatharam, devadai, pattu padava, poomani etc.
  If you take, pattu padava, the song is:
  nil nil...
  His pronounciation is horrible in the song.
  
  
• From: srikanth (@ 206.minneapolis-04.mn.dial-access.att.net) on: Wed Apr 22 23:44:04 EDT 1998
  
  Hi,
  
  I agree with all of you. One of reason for Raja's downfall was he wanted to sing more songs ...
  he did not stop with it --- He wanted to write songs...
  
  Srikanth
  
  
  
• From: kanth (@ 205.211.50.66) on: Thu Apr 23 23:17:41 EDT 1998
  
  a person should change with society, ilayaraja still wana do music like old days, too bad iam not interested in it. beside why does he have to sing a love song. i have his voice for a love song.
  doesn't anyone from his family tell him that he is too old for it
  
  
• From: Mottai-the-fan-of-Mottai (@ 203.120.115.1) on: Fri Apr 24 02:58:19 EDT 1998
  
  Hello Mr Kanth,
  
  Mind that you are participating in a DF. Who cares about what you are interested in? BTW, what do you mean by "he wants to do music like old days". Did he tell you that? Before telling about old things, what is new in tamil film? He has done lot of compositions that are new forever. Not the kind of new things that will be outdated tomorrow. Three reasons why he sings are (1) Directors/Producers want him to sing. For Eg., Avatharam, Devadhai - Nasar wants him to render as he finds IR suitable for the situation like Kundumani song.. (2) For those old producers/directors who want to make a comeback and help new producers/directors by getting relatively less MD fee, he sings himself to cut cost. Rather than getting those so called singers for whom you do not have to pay or those who do not know how to pronounce in Tamil, it is a lot better for him to sing (3) For his own satisfaction if he likes the tune and lyrics he renders that song which does may not appear in the films but only in cassettes. And also those bit songs he does only for the film to suit the scene and it may not appear in the cassettes. So do not make statements like "Why does he sing?" and it is too much for you dictate his family to advise him. Also, the topic here is that "Claiming IR as the best MD" and nobody(including myself & other IR fans) wants to claim IR as the best singer.
  
  IR devotees>> Sorry for responding to such postings as advised by you all. I could not resist this time.
  
  Sorry if my response is very arrogant. You response sounded much like that after I saw your another response in different topic(I have responded there).
  
  Cheers!
  
  
• From: k.r.ravi (@ ww-tr02.proxy.aol.com) on: Fri Apr 24 05:26:15 EDT 1998
  
  To Bhadri :
  To most of the people that i came across here in sunnyvale CA, as well as in Madras, "Ennai Thaalata Varuvaalo " sung by Ilayaraaja is soulful and better than the hariharan version. All my friends here regularly play "Ayya Veedu..." from ":Khadalukku Mariyaadhai" just to hear his voice and the folk rythm. Raja's voice is unique and he certainly sings it in a different way. I believe there are lotta songs in TFM which in which none other than raja could have done justice.
  
  
• From: badri raghavan (@ 206.103.12.125) on: Sat Apr 25 00:25:39 EDT 1998
  
  dear ravi and mottai-fan-of-mottai(that's nice but long perhaps mfm (like tfm) will be easy-- eh eh no hard feelings, please)
  
  as mfm pointed out, this is not the right discussion topic for ir as a singer. there are merits and demerits in ir as a singer. we can take it up as a separate discussion (i will start it right away) and talk to our heart's content.
  
  let's proceed with ir as the greatest md ever topic
  
  
  
• From: Nithin (@ nc.pr.mcs.net) on: Sat Apr 25 03:28:31 EDT 1998
  
  Ravi
  
  I too like Ayya Veedu. It is a very special song and can only be sung by IR
  
  
• From: mfm (@ 203.120.115.1) on: Sun Apr 26 22:25:07 EDT 1998
  
  Nithin, How about that bit where IR sings "Ayya Voodu, ye indha indha indha..."? Typical of IR's imagination. That's what I call 'ilavasa innaippugal' from Mottai.
  
  I think we better continue with IR as best MD, before somebody pounce on me for the diversion. Probably, we should start separate topic "IR's happy songs rendered in his own style".
  
  mfm (a) Senthil
  
  
• From: Ravi (@ envy.cs.umass.edu) on: Mon Apr 27 00:10:27 EDT 1998
  
  badri: IR as a singer has already been discussed. Look for it in the archives. If you have anything substantial to add to it tell me, I'll resurrect the thread. Thanks.
  
  
• From: natarajan (@ wmu-64-244.tm.net.my) on: Sat May 2 07:11:20 EDT 1998
  
  IR did a revolution in Tamil song in cinema. he made the people to sit through song thosedays when people used go out for ciggarettes/ etc. whenever a song starts in movie. I sincerely believe that masterpiece is yet to come from IR
  natarajan
  
  
• From: k.r.ravi (@ ww-tn01.proxy.aol.com) on: Wed May 6 06:16:06 EDT 1998
  
  HI MFM,
  
  The "Indha Indha.." sequence in "Ayya Veedu"is kinda 'nakkal' or 'Kurumbu' done by Ilayaraaja and i love that piece. Probably he was too involved with the song and got blended with it and as a spark just sang that to enthuse the Tabla section and the rythm section more. The song sequence was equally well shot by Fazil and manivannan did the right tricks to make that song lovely to watch.
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Wed May 6 14:09:21 EDT 1998
  
  As a big fan of TFM and IR, I would like to say that it is wrong to crown him as the all time greatest. Each generation has its own hero. For the time they were composed, some of the Viswanathan-Ramamurthy, G.Ramanathan tunes were light years ahead of their time and still enjoyable. IR may be the MD who has made the most impact on Tamil movies in our time, but he has his flaws and limitations.
  IR started the trend of mixing jazz and western pop instruments with native instruments. But in his blending of the two, often the transitions within songs are jarring. There are a few songs like "Thaalaattu Pillai undu thaalaattu" where the blending was great. But most of the time, especially in the mid to late eighties, his compositions were not as smooth. For instance, take two great hits: "Ramanin Mohanam" and "Azhagu, azhagu devathai". Both have mid song instrumentation that seem to be thrust in disruptively. Not only did IR start this trend he also paved the way for so many others(like Deva, Sirpi, Vidhyasaagar,IR's kids, etc) who think to cut and paste western compositions into traditional ragams is music.
  MSV was the best at musical transitions within songs. And ARR is proving to be a master at blending musical interludes seamlessly. I believe ARR to be the undisputed master in blending entirely different instruments and themes into one palatable whole.
  Another limitation of IR is the use of drums and Western percussions. IR has only shown a limited range that is very basic and rigid when it comes to Western percussions. The beat is very similar in "Netru indha neram" from Tik Tik Tik, "Pani Vizhum Iravu" from Mouna Raagam, and "Ennai Thaalaatta Varuvalo" from Kadhalukku Mariyadhai.
  
  Note that I make a distinction of Western pop percussion, not the Western Classical compositions
  of IR which I think are astonishing. So, I conclude that IR had the crown for a long stretch from mid70s to early 90s. But, except for sudden bursts here and there of late, IR has not done much to sustain his throne. ARR has it now without a doubt. ARR is not without flaws either but he is clearly the man for the 90s generation.
  Finally, the more MDs out there, the better for us fans, so let us not become secessionists. Art is too big for any one person to hold court. Enjoy, keep it real.
  
  
• From: Madhan (@ 202.41.117.71) on: Wed May 6 16:07:53 EDT 1998
  
  Hello Mr.Udhaya,
  
  ARR and interludes and seamless transitions ? - listen to 'oruvan oruvan mudhalaali' from MUTHU - nonsensical interlude in the second half of the song - most of ARR's songs have very poor interludes .
  
  In fact, what you have mentioned as disruptive interludes are not exactly disruptive - they are creative elements of IR - take the same song you had mentioned , " Raamanin mohanam " - the second interlude starts with a racy jazzy music , followed by strings section, a whistle taking the tune of the interlude to a higher pitch and again followed by violins - and then the stanza - No, Mr.Udhaya, that is what creativity and complexity are all about.
  
  Saying that "Netru indha neram " and " pani vizhum iravu " have the same percussion beats is like saying Flute Mali's musical rendition is the same as that of Hariprasad Chaurasia, just because both of them use the flute as an instrument !!
  
  As for ARR,s percussion instrumentation, if they were all original, i would agree that they are genuinely great - ARR happily flicks percussion pieces from Dr.Alban etc., - how then can you refer to this as creative work.
  
  IR's percussion instrumentation - "Meendum meendum vaa " from VIKRAM, uses MRIdangam as a versatile percussion instrument, so does " paadum vaanambaadi " from "Naan paadum paadal" - " yen vaaniley " from Johnny again has a beautiful roll of the percussion instrument in the song during the saranam -
  
  How about "Konji Konji" from Veera ? THe point here is that whatever beats , percussion rhythms one uses , they should blend with the song and MOOD of the song - IR has no equals for that .
  
  ARR - still has a long , long way to go to reach even half the distance covered by IR .
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Wed May 6 17:10:06 EDT 1998
  
  Madhan, I say IR's interludes are disruptive, you say they are creative leaps--I guess it comes
  down to individual taste so I won't argue that point. In terms of number of movies and songs, yes
  ARR has a long way to go. Regarding ARR's sampling, referencing, copying of other's music, well he is not the only one. IR has done it ("Kan Malargalin Azhaipidhal" a direct copy of an ABBA song,"Keladi Kanmani Paadagan Sangathi" is a copy of a Hindi song, "En Purushanthan" is just like "Dum Maro Dum") MSV did it too ("Nallathu Kanne Kanavu Kaninthathu" is a rip off of Frank Sinatra's "Strangers in the Night", "Palinginaal Oru Maaligai" is a copy of a Jazz instrumental) I don't have a problem with any of this because the Tamil songs were all good songs in the end that's
  what I care about. Shakespeare took many of his themes from Greek legends, does that mean he is
  unoriginal? Certainly not.
  I don't blindly like everything ARR has done, nor do I blindly hate everything IR has done. Each has
  specific talents that the other doesn't. I hate ARR for bringing Udit Narayanan and other singers who can't pronounce Tamil to Tamil songs. I thought Ratchagan songs were poor. Vandhe Madharam was overrated. But, Jeans has three solid songs and I love what he's done with a classic ragam by blending a lilting pop chorus and mathalam in "Kannodu Kanbathellam" by Nithiya Sree. I enjoyed your passionate message and opinion. Without passion and opinion we will be blindly fed the status quo, which is what MSV had become when IR dethroned him and which is what IR became when ARR dethroned him.
  
  

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