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ARR's experiments

Topic started by yaaro (@ ac9f1293.ipt.aol.com) on Mon Aug 13 16:57:46 EDT 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

some chaps seem to think ARR has done many experiments.please enlighten us!

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: yaaro (@ 195.93.48.182) on: Mon Oct 15 23:51:31 EDT 2001
  
  //use of a completely unorthodox voice for a hit song for first time(anne anne..) "
  
  How about Thaeni Kunjaramma for "Pettai Rap"?
  Can a voice be more unorthodox:) than this!
  That was ARR's 3rd or 4th movie.
  Was that song in one of IR's first five movies//
  so here ARR was on a beaten track.//first person to use stereo "
  "first person to utilise computer in music arrangements"
  
  At that time ARR was just dumb learning alphabets and learning to count using his fingers.//
  come on-when ARR uses sound loops, you guys shout -what a novel use of sound loops for first time.reg stereo and computer music-that was the first time that these were done atleast in tfm-so that will definitely qualify for experiments.
  
  //"radically different approach to bgm "
  
  Using the part of the songs very effectively as BGM.Can any approach be as radical or effortless as this?:) //
  I call this laziness-i have mentioned in a few threads before that arr is capable of good bgm-but he does them only in shankar,mr or movies like taal.whereas IR gives good and exemplary bgm for most of his movies-whether it be for a geethanjali or a kutti.i think that is the hallmark of a good musician-to treat everything on a equal footing.
  
  //My request to list the "experiments" of IR filtered by either his first 60 films or first 10 years, whichever is greater (surely 10 years) was largely ignored. That would have put things in the correct perspective//
  why should this make any difference-an experimentation is an experimentation-last year he composed bgm witha symphony orchestra-this year he is going to use them for a new interpretation of tamil hymns.who is to tell what he will do next year?
  //You underestimate our liking for IR and overestimate our illitracy in judging ARR. And also you trivialize ARR into a non-musical entity//
  I am sorry you think so-but i dont.if you go back to archives ,you will see i started a thread called ARR vs IR-with a difference-i had asked dfers -that is IR fans like myself to list what we think are good bits of arr's music and viceversa.and beleive me, i did contribute considerably to that thread.my credentials speak for themselves:-)
  if you go back in the arr experiments thread, i did list out what i thought was his experiments.
  I was there when IR phenemenon was happening-not like many of you ARR fans who were in your 5-12 or 15's-when priorities are different-beleive me guys that is why many of us believe ARR is grossly overrated.he is good-you can fool some people for sometime-not many for longtime-the fact that he has been there for so long is an indicator of his capabilities.I agree he is good-i never said he is rubbish..
  P.S:just saw lagaan last week-liked the movie and the music...
  
  
• From: Saketh@Atlanta (@ 66.56.8.109) on: Tue Oct 16 00:08:14 EDT 2001
  
  guys, I am not talking about sounds. True, if I had good equipment like ARR, I could make it croak like a frog, chirp like a bird etc etc. I am talking about arrangement of music, the melody itself and overall appeal. To list a few,
  1. The song 'Strawberry Kanne' from Minsara Kanavu
  2. 'Raasaathi...' from Thiruda Thiruda
  3. 'Satrangi Re' from Dil Se
  
  These songs have a different feel. Their tune is good and they have a good overall appeal. I don't know if they have characteristics such as counterpoint etc etc. If you are talking about making songs based with a carnatic feel, ARR has a few - Azhagana Ratchasiye, Nila Kaaykiradhu etc. Again, I don't know if these are 'good' enough.
  
  Explain to me, why ARR is no good. Is it plainly because he uses equipment to generate tunes and has no other talent. Without bringing IR into the picture, we should be able to discuss what is the worth of ARR's music. His songs just seem so meticulously engineered (Oops, I do not mean he is a sound engineer)
  
  
• From: Kupps (@ 156.153.255.134) on: Tue Oct 16 02:03:44 EDT 2001
  
  
  yaaro,
  
  "use of a completely unorthodox voice for a hit song for first time(anne anne..) "
  
  How about Thaeni Kunjaramma for "Pettai Rap"?
  Can a voice be more unorthodox:) than this!
  That was ARR's 3rd or 4th movie.
  Was that song in one of IR's first five movies?!ARR experimented much earlier in his career than IR and came out with trumps.
  
  
  Saketh, I think you misunderstood the point by yaaro.
  
  IR might have done it in his, say 100th film. But in yaaro's opinion(imo also) that is the first of its kind in TFM. It was done during early 80s(i think).
  
  But ARR's theni kunjaramma was done in mid/late 90s. ARR dont have to wait till his 100th film(may be in Mid 2000s) to use theni kunjaramma. Because a precedence has been set already. Using theni kunjaramma in that song is not a experiment at all. In lighter sense, i would say using udit for rajini is an experiment :-)
  
  IMHO, your saying is like:
  
  School Teacher: Einstein discovered his relativity theory. He is a genius.
  
  9th Class Stud: Sir, I'm reading it in my 9th class itself, i'm more a genius than Einstein who did it only during his old age.
  
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.230) on: Tue Oct 16 10:08:01 EDT 2001
  
  Kupps,
  
  I thought we were talking about this voice stuff based on some loose(not rigid) assumptions.Since we are getting more into it, could you please enlighten this ignorant soul as to what is a unorthodox voice as to a orthodox voice?
  
  
  
• From: Kupps (@ 156.153.255.134) on: Tue Oct 16 10:18:55 EDT 2001
  
  Trend,
  
  The correct person to ask is "yaaro" and not me. I just attempted to clarify the misconception(IMO) in Saketh's statement that is all.
  
  What i guessed from "non-orthodox voice" is one or more of the following:
  
  1) not-so-sweet voice and/or
  
  2) a person's voice who has no training in singing and/or
  
  3) a voice of a person who has less ability to sing
  
  4) struggles (or) would struggle to catch up with kattais(pl. refer to raghuvaran for more details).
  
  
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.230) on: Tue Oct 16 11:19:09 EDT 2001
  
  Kupps,
  
  That misconception abt Thaeni Kunjaramma is mine, I think.:)
  Going by your first two criteria:
  
  "not-so-sweet voice and/or a person's voice who has no training in singing"
  
  Does that mean all the singer who sang before "Anne Anne" very necessarily had sweet voice and everyone had training in singing?
  
  "struggles (or) would struggle to catch up with kattais"
  
  In the song "Anne Anne" it seems to be a apt rendition aptly suited for the situation.I don't see any strain or struggle to catch up with kaatais.This is the opinion of non-musical me.
  
  
• From: marcel (@ 212.186.40.21) on: Tue Oct 16 11:54:41 EDT 2001
  
  very good, so my small effort has brought this topic so far...
  
  
• From: Bharath (@ 192.25.158.12) on: Tue Oct 16 12:22:00 EDT 2001
  
  Kupps,
  
  //"School Teacher: Einstein discovered his relativity theory. He is a genius.
  
  9th Class Stud: Sir, I'm reading it in my 9th class itself, i'm more a genius than Einstein who did it only during his old age"//
  
  This is what I have been shouting for so long in the newtfmpage.
  
  Kupps transalate your well-put statement into the huge topic of "inspiration" and analyze. Let me help by phrasing it for you.
  
  If the 9th std stud uses knowledge gained by relativity theory and finds out something new when he is 40 years old. would you call that copying? wuld you think he is a plagiarist? same appliesto the alleged "lifting" of "commercial" software loops by ARR. same applies to some "lifting" of concepts and conceptualization of movie scenes by MR in some of his movies.
  
  There needs to be a clear distinction of what is knowledge base and innovation.Let me confuse you more by saying knowledge base is a subset of innovation and only when it is vice versa can you call it copying.
  
  And while at your analogy. I will say where you have gone offtrack with regds to this topic.
  
  What is wrong?
  
  Ilayaraja: I used stereo when I was doing my 200th film
  
  ARR: I used stereo when I did my first movie so I am grater than you.
  
  What is correct is?
  
  Ilayaraaja: I did something beyond the scope of my work definition when I was in my 150th movie.
  
  ARR: Hey I did something like that in my 3rd movie.
  
  
  so get it! there is a difference between a specific instance of "innovation" by two people and a generic instance of "attempting to do innovation" between two people.
  
  ARR will go down as a radical innovator in his most early stage of his career. But what most will not know his. He did not consider our perception of "innoation" as beyond the scope of his work. But just part of his duty to continually impress people. So I wud not call ARR's work as "innovation" because thats what he does on a regular basis.
  
  
• From: yaaro (@ 195.93.32.181) on: Tue Oct 16 14:25:53 EDT 2001
  
  was it newton who said If I have seen further ,it was because I stood on the shoulders of others?ARR said that he does not listen to others's music because he wanted to be completely diffrent-for which that reviewer who wrote those pages in that are now in lolluexpress aptly said-try that ands let us see u succeed.he may sound new-but his recycling rate is unacceptable-his many songs remind us of so many other songs-both his and others.
  //ARR will go down as a radical innovator in his most early stage of his career. But what most will not know his. He did not consider our perception of "innoation" as beyond the scope of his work. But just part of his duty to continually impress people. So I wud not call ARR's work as "innovation" because thats what he does on a regular basis.//
  sounds impressive but rings hollow.
  
  
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.230) on: Tue Oct 16 15:34:51 EDT 2001
  
  yaaro,
  
  "he may sound new-but his recycling rate is unacceptable"
  
  I'm getting sick of MDs whose recycling rate is acceptable but are not sounding new(bored of monotonous and similar style) at all.
  
  Digression:
  
  "sounds impressive but rings hollow."
  Kadi warning:
  
  Let me relate a small incident and the lesson I learned from it.I borrowed a ring from my colleague which is hollow in shape and dropped it down.It didn't sound impressive at all.
  
  But then I took another ring(not hollow) from another colleague and dropped it and it sounded impressive.
  The lesson I learnt is:
  "Hollow ring does not sound impressive.Any ring that sounds impressive is not a hollow one."
  Just kidding:)
  
  
  
• From: rf (@ 152.163.197.186) on: Tue Oct 16 15:35:44 EDT 2001
  
  what innovation of IR came only in his 15oth movie when he was innovating right from annakkilli in each and every movie? can anyone point out that?
  
  

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