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Has ARR ever been inspired by IR?

Topic started by Responsible_Critic (@ 160.231.1.20) on Wed Feb 21 17:14:21 EST 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Hi Guys:

Listen to this Telugu Song composed by IR ( I am not sure if this was dubbed in Tamil ) - it's from Surya IPS. This came in 1990

http://64.81.35.203/songs/SuryaIPS_Hattiri.ram

Listen to the Kadhalan Song by ARR ( I am giving the link to telugu version of it - check the tamil one if you want )

http://64.81.35.203/songs/Premikudu_Andamaina.ram

Let the song start, wait and relax to enjoy the similarities.

If there are any such inspirations - let's discuss.

BTW, this thread is not intended to prove that everybody copies from IR. But just curious...

Responsible Critic

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: RC (@ 24.4.252.137) on: Sun Apr 1 10:15:55 EDT 2001
  
  Hi Guys:
  
  Listen to the song mentioned by UmaRamanan
  
  http://www.raajangahm.com/real/songs/nandu/song4.ram
  
  Regards,
  RC
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.168.244) on: Sun Apr 8 04:12:52 EDT 2001
  
  V.....
  
  Interesting discussion...threw light on some facts...but (sorry to rake this up here) just because Mozart who is considered a prodigy (born genius) was a prodigious composer churning out brilliant pieces at the fly, does it make Beethoven less great though Beethoven was known to rework his compositions a lot until he was satisfied with the result ?
  
  
• From: yaaro (@ 172.152.172.176) on: Sun Apr 8 19:14:15 EDT 2001
  
  Cosmician,
  When you guys defending the slower-than-the slowest -snail pace of ARR realise that beethoven was not composing 30 second jingles or 5 minute songs-but epic compositions running into hrs-and he was deaf.you know something? even if raaja were to lose his hearing(god forbid!), he will be still able to go on composing-that is because of his style of composing.if you justify ARRs epic efforts at polishing a 5 minute song, then what can one say?and at the end of all this polishing and reworking, the end product reminds you of a 100 other songs by ARR and others...
  
  
• From: Kupps (@ 156.153.255.134) on: Mon Apr 9 03:35:01 EDT 2001
  
  very good thought by cosmician and a good but (bit harsh, imho) reply by yaaro
  
  how u guys think in such angle???
  
  great!!!
  
  
• From: RVC (@ 172.132.80.244) on: Mon Apr 9 13:17:48 EDT 2001
  
  guys please let me know if the tfm world can go on wo the discussion about who is really genius material and who isnt ? agreed guys : IR is a genius but to appreciate that fact why does someone else always have to be put down ? in this case ARR .then by that merit is IR only genius material in comparison to ARR ? ARR has no pretentions about what he is doing and has never mentioned that he is the KING of the music world and has never in our knowledge called himself raagadevan or isaignani or maestro etc. this is no argument to defend ARR but just to put certain things in perspective. who denied IR his elelvated place in the tfm world after the entrance of ARR ? IF IR could have, then why didnt he stop the march of the other mds..? OF COURSE the very presence of scores of mediocre guys around doesnt mean that IR's stature is diminished but there is no point crying foul about the digital music and the analogies of Beethoven and Mozart are only to our own undoing. guys lets leave them alone. If some good music comes from some direction let us appreciate it. IR couldnt stop his own sons from getting in to the digital music and the synthesizer aided trash and dishing out pathetic fare called music( YSr's score for some old sharath kumar movie is a disgrace). the coming of digital music and the style of composition was to be the cyclic pattern for a particular period in tfm history. things will change and there will definitely be a different kind of music happening in the next decade or so. If polishing a song for several days or toiling hard for a 5 minutes jingle is not genius , then it it surely is not being marketed as genius either.people who work with ARR know that he takes that long and comes up scores resembling some already existing numbers! if they are still doing it and paying for it too then they sure must be getting something in return dont they..? no body works with ARR for charity . Junta is not stupid to put up with trash for long.if he is cheating people with recyled tunes he will definitely have his comeuppance! but instead of being this dismissive of his talents why cant we all plainly have some good informed criticism for some one who works hard and admits to his limitations..?
  
  for those of u die hard IR fans, who on top of their voices shout that he is THE thing ,do u guys have any reason to say that aloud that the sun rises in the east ? it is a proven established fact aint it..? Then why does he go over and tell an audience about how unbeleivably great his music is and how he just had to put up with morons who had no sense of music at all in them ..? the kumudam interview ( or it was his sharing of thoughts in some function) he has certainly made himself seem very very hypocritical and outright ungrateful to the tfm world!what is he trying to tell us all by decalring that he is the god of music and no moron in this tfm world has had the vision to identify the genius in him and it took some conductor in hungary to realise the genius in him etc..? can somebody tell him that it is because of the tfm world only he was taken to hungary and some f*** all composer showered praises on him ! and for his great symphony...where is it guys..? has anyone heard it all these years..if his music was that great then it must have had a grand relaese all over the world. if not for any politicking firang, some desi tfm moron would have definitely marketed it and released it..?( after all the kamalahaasans of this world are still alive ) why has that not happened. it was because of IR's high handed ness he fell from glory and it is because f the same he is again inviting ignominy.
  
  
• From: e (@ 210.214.5.219) on: Tue Apr 10 01:56:29 EDT 2001
  
  After publishing your esteemed opinions here, why you started another thread?
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.168.236) on: Tue Apr 10 02:55:21 EDT 2001
  
  Kupps..thanks
  
  RVC..sensible views...but i can't accept your view that composing for a 5-minute jingle or writing a headline for an ad (i'm an advertising writer) is not creative....I know the experience one has to undergo to really produce a world-class, hard-hitting and memorable headline for an ad or hook for a jingle. Believe me, it takes talent or advtg. professionals wouldn't be so highly paid.
  Maybe Beethoven produced massive works and cannot be compared to today's pop genre but the fact remains that we identify his compositions by certain hooks and memorable parts...it's not that we remember every note or movement...those days people had the time to build huge temples and compose great symphonies...that doesn't mean IR and ARR cannot compose their own symphonies...they can but the question is - is it required ?
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.1.66) on: Tue Apr 10 02:56:51 EDT 2001
  
  Sorry the view I had contested was that of "Yaaro".
  Sorry for the mistake RVC
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.1.66) on: Wed Apr 11 07:24:34 EDT 2001
  
  Interview of Mahalakshmi Iyer on REdiff
  
  http://www.rediff.com/entertai/2001/apr/09maha.htm
  
  "...Secondly, just learning the basics in music, modulating your voice and developing your range, isn't enough. Jingles taught me expression, understanding, emoting and delivering the goods - and you have 30 seconds to top all that in a jingle!"....
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.1.66) on: Wed Apr 11 07:31:14 EDT 2001
  
  Guys, this seems to be an other way around case....
  
  "Chilipiyenno .." from IR's "Usire" is similar to the tune of ARR's Rhythm's "Sky"....the one featuring Meena...do you see the similarity in the tune ?
  
  
  Listen to Usire here...
  
  http://www.musicindiaonline.com/cgi-bin/music.cgi?Mode=List&Code=YY00000K03&a=loqscxuhskeeybmufnrjibgjkbfjtwfwhty
  
  
• From: sabesan (@ 64.163.213.13) on: Wed Apr 11 12:20:03 EDT 2001
  
  cosmician, i really don't see the similarity..... but somehow i remembered one Mallu song by IR (some "Ponnaram Poovil", i don't remember, in the movie in which IR sung "Eriganaal Kaatil").....
  
  
• From: Saravanan (@ 64.220.209.210) on: Wed Apr 11 15:22:43 EDT 2001
  
  Dear RVC,
  It's good u have analysed the things in a proper way, as far as the first paragraph is concerned. But u lost the sense of balance while writing the second one, it seems! U have highly sarcastic over IR and especially to the symphony. The feelings of a creator is really important and there should be a proper recognition for their work. Take Kamalhassan as an example. His movies, guna and Mahanadhi were excellent in quality. But they haven't performed well at the market. After some five years, everyone started appreciating those movies. This is bad and unwelcoming. See, the recognition should be given in the appropriate time. Same thing happened for Sivaji also. After he recd the award from French Govt, our govt woke up and awarded the palke award. So, if sivaji says that french govt recognised me and this bloody cine field and govt of india haven't, then it's true and it's a bad part of our system. it doesn't mean that sivaji cries for awards. But it's his time to remind us where we have gone wrong. There's no point in telling after his death that he was a great actor the cine field ever had!!! So i find nothing wrong in IR's words by saying reg the recognition of a Hungary's composer. It's his way of interpretation and he can always deserve to tell it.
  Reg symphony, see, it's a composer's choice, whether to market it now or later. It doesn't mean that the quality of music is bad or something else. Do u know, how much IR was appreciated by the Conductor of symphony? First of all getting a chance to compose RPHS ( Royal PhilHarmonic Symphony ) is difficult. So, after getting a chance, u cant simply do a junk work there! Understand it, first!! If Vandhe maatharam of ARR was a sales hit, it doesn't mean that it's the ultimate in music. The way they have commercialised was good. It was a craze on that time. Selling patriotism was the motive of that! That's it!! How many of the people liked the TTTHHAAAI MANNAE VANAKKKKKAMM of ARR's Horrible voice???? It's all business, man! Of course nobody does it for charity. But what i want to stress is, that for all these reasons, dont under estimate one's great work!! If he calls himself as ragadevan or isaignani or maestro, what bothers u? Haven't us put " excellent in ...some bla, blas" in our resume??? Then why do u so bother about IR? We r doing programs, IR is doing music. And if we deserve to call ourselves as excellent guys in programming, why not IR????
  Coming back to the thread, Yes, of course! ARR at many instances, inspired by IR! It's quite natural man. He's there in the field for the past 20 years, and the new MDs will certainly have the resemblence of IR's touch. I think ARR is also not a exception to this........
  
  
• From: RVC (@ 172.165.230.190) on: Wed Apr 11 16:40:46 EDT 2001
  
  saravanan..the balance seems to have tilted the other way round now..there have been several instances of late recognition or no recognition at all for many great people in india ( sivaji ganesan is a classic case ).it is a curse that indians recognise the talent in their own sons and daughters only after some guy from outside notices and recognises it.but there is also this kind of an annoying habit of celebrating what the firangs say...may be that is only an extension of of following the west or anything foreign ! but that does not essentially mean that there are no good ears for music in india or there is nobody to play for or whatever . so what if recognition comes late ..if he was doing a great job and he should be aware of that .
  
  my only question was is it fair to say that "inga oruthannukkum onnum theriyadhu or endha director aalayavadhu manjolai kilidhaano maadhiri pattu lam enkittendhu ezhudhi vaanga mudiyuma ..ellam naana pottadhu " or enakku isai nna onnume theriyadhu etc ...mind you the last sentence was not said with any intention to express humility but with sheer frustration and plain anger ..what i dont really understand is does this kind of a frustration befits a man of his stature .if he was composing and creating music on his own initiative ( as he has said )he should have been happy with what he has done and what he got in return too ! there is a saying in sanskrit that roughly translates in to " enlightenment or education ( vidhya ) brings humility ". where is it..?
  
  as for his adding isaignani, raagadevan etc..i agree it shouldnt bother me at all ..but to celebrate somebody should we overdo things is what i want to know..it looks silly beyond a point...as would any such thing that we may put on our resume ..we will only be laughed at !
  
  and to your other question of understanding what it is to compose for the RPS orchestra - very humbly , i say i do! and i very well remember what the conductor said of IR. but my question is why is he (IR) holding it back . does he or anybody who can release the music think that indian audiences are not mature enuf to appreciate his great composition. i quote you "So, after getting a chance, u cant simply do a junk work there! " agreed great it is !!!but how great is it who will say ...? where he has released his other non filmi albums and met with success too..why not his one...is this the fault of the listenenrs who have stood by him all these years .? if business ( like selling patriotism ) is name of the game and that too selling some trash like "TTTHHAAAI MANNAE VANAKKKKKAMM of ARR's Horrible voice " then why not his superior composition ..which could easily be a better success ?
  
  and your last para..was IR inspired by MSV ..this is a question out of sheer curiosity ...given tha fact that msv ruled the tfm world for so long and has come up with an unimaginable range and depth is there even a possiblity that the great IR has himself been inspired by his predecessor..?
  
  the hcifrs please spare the diatribe...
  
  

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