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Raga of song please

Topic started by Gopal Prasad (@ greed.cs.umass.edu) on Sat May 17 07:42:45 EDT 1997.
All times in EDT +9:30 for IST.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: ravi68 (@ 64.20.109.10) on: Thu Sep 21 21:21:16 EDT 2000
  
  IR..For Hamsaanadham i thought the scale went like S R M P N S- S N D N P M R S and i have heard "Bantureethi" being so rendered.Can u further clarify please?
  
  
• From: Vidhya (@ 24.128.190.214) on: Thu Sep 21 22:22:21 EDT 2000
  
  Vijay: For Hindustani&Carnatic raagam equivalents,
  chk this page out..
  http://www.aoe.vt.edu/~boppe/MUSIC/RAGA/hc.html
  
  
• From: SL (@ 63.253.228.142) on: Thu Sep 21 22:54:49 EDT 2000
  
  Vijay, it is Patdeep in Carnatic too. The song I was referring to is from Sharmilee sung by Lata. I will anyway verify my claims, though a trifle late :-)).
  
  Someone was mentioning that 'Indru pOi naaLai vaaraai' from Sampoorna Ramayanam is in Tilang. I think it is Chala Naattai and so is 'NallathOr veeNai seivEn' from 'Varumayin niram sigappu'. Comments please....
  
  
• From: SL (@ 63.253.228.142) on: Thu Sep 21 23:12:01 EDT 2000
  
  ravi68, 'Dil hai kE...' seems to be predominantly in Valaji, though the song touches all seven notes of its parent , HariKamboji (kamaj Thaat). This song by Nadeem-Shravan is heavily inspired by RD Burman's 'Diwana lEkE aayaa hai dil ka taraana' from 'mErE jeevan saathi'. In some places you get the feeling that it is a clever copy.
  
  IR, in the reference book I have Hamsanadham is referred to as a janyam of Dharmavathi also and this version is as follows :
  ar :sr2m2pd2s av:sn3d2n3pm2r2s
  and
  ar:sr2m2pd2n3s av:sn3d2n3pm2r2s
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.221) on: Thu Sep 21 23:59:58 EDT 2000
  
  SL,
  does the second line of the song goes like 'batha mein kya karoon?' or something like that? if so its that song that i have in mind.
  
  
• From: Vidhya (@ 24.128.190.214) on: Fri Sep 22 00:31:13 EDT 2000
  
  Thilang is listed as janyam of Harikhamboji
  thilan'g |28| S G3 M1 P N3 S | S N2 P M1 G3 S
  
  The reason to associate the songs to Thilang will be the usage of 2 nishaadhams.
  
  Both are Naattai-ish is my opinion too.
  
  
• From: silkfort (@ 202.9.188.105) on: Fri Sep 22 01:53:07 EDT 2000
  
  presume the following are hamsanaadham too?
  
  - meendum meendum vaa
  - kannalae kadhal kaditham sonnalae enakkaga
  
  
• From: SL (@ 63.253.227.148) on: Fri Sep 22 02:04:31 EDT 2000
  
  Vijay, yes bulls-eye. The song goes like 'Megha chchayE aadhi raath bairan ban gayee nindiyaa, batha dE main kya karoon'. SD Burman proves that he is the master of rhythm in Hindi, in this song and not OP Nayyar. It is for sure in Sharmilee. The problem is the introduction of M2 which is a deviation from Patdeep, which is a janya of Karaharapriya.
  
  
• From: SL (@ 63.253.227.148) on: Fri Sep 22 02:08:56 EDT 2000
  
  Vidhs, both songs I mentioned are Naattaish for sure because of usage of G2 too, in addition to G3. It is nearly so in 'NaaLaam naaLaam ...' and other songs that sounded somewhere close to 'NaaLaam..' except that only N2 is used and never, N3.
  
  
• From: IR (@ ) on: Fri Sep 22 10:01:37 EDT 2000
  
  SL - ravi68... Hamsanadham is a janya of Neethimathi (60) because it was originally believed to take a dha3. Most musicians avoid dha3 but there are a few traditionalists who sing hamsanadham with dha3 (S.Kalyanaramam for one - if you do not know who he is - just ignore this line :)
  
  but I would say 95% of them ignore dha3. Any performing artiste would give you the following scale for hamsanadham (sa ri ma pa ni sa - sa ni pa ma ri sa) - going by this scale and by rules of classifying janyas - hamsanadham should be a janya of Dharmavathi... but the dha3 forces it under Neethimathi although it is ignored...
  
  Coming to dha2 - I have never heard anybody use dha2 ... no comments... If some book says so, they must have their own reasoning... and I would be interested in knowing that...
  
  ravi68 - as far as I know and have listened to - Bantureethi adheres to sa ri ma pa ni sa - sa ni pa ma ri sa unless somebody sings it with a chittaswara composed by himself with dha3
  
  
  
• From: Vasu (@ 192.35.232.116) on: Fri Sep 22 10:34:49 EDT 2000
  
  Ragapravaham mentions hamsanAdam with both d2 (ref. Ragakosam, classified under Dharmavathi) and d3 (sangeetha swara prasthara sagaram, under Neetimathi). Dont know which is older or which was in vogue, but there might have been two schools each having its own dha, later might have got dropped altogether.
  
  ravi68, i agree with IR, the usual rendering of Bantureethi is without any dha.
  
  S.Bhagyalakshmy's South indian ragas book mentions HamsanAdam only with d3.
  
  IR:
  hamsanAdam was the only one i could find with d2 in ragapravaham. in fact, hamsanAdam with srmpns-snpmrs was not mentioned at all! i think this is one of the cases where prevailing dominance of a certain tradition overrides whats been the accepted norm.
  
  silkfort:
  kannalan kaadal -- sounds like kalyani to me. need to play and see.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.28.53) on: Fri Sep 22 15:22:38 EDT 2000
  
  SL,
  Thanx. and thanx also for reminding me of that wonderful song. i'll try hunting for it somewhere on the net. and u are probably right. from what i remember of that song it could have probably inspired IR.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.221) on: Sat Sep 23 01:47:44 EDT 2000
  
  SL,
  here is a site having that song
  http://www.indiafm.com/audio/gems/s.shtml
  
  go down and look for sharmili. Lata brings out the required emotions.
  
  
• From: ravi68 (@ 216.67.96.53) on: Sat Sep 23 12:03:25 EDT 2000
  
  IR/Vasu/SL..I have a query.wouldnt Hamsaanadham plus D2 make it the scale Saaranga Tharangini S R2 M2 P D2 N3 S - S N3 D2 P M2 R2 S. An excellent rendition of TVS is available of GNB's krithi "Samaana rahithe.."- for those who have not heard the scale. Can we grade these songs,having dh2 under it?
  
  I shall check up on "hamsanadham " with dha in the descent and let u guys know...Actually IR...whenever u and i start chatting "dha" contraversy starts:-)..remember Abheri:-)?????
  
  Sl Thanks for the "Dil Hai Ki.." I havent heard of that RD Burman number... any link? Is "Gore Thera Gaon"...KJY and "film Chitchor- isnt it(current day)Abheri????
  
  
• From: ravi68 (@ 216.67.96.53) on: Sat Sep 23 12:13:28 EDT 2000
  
  Another ?...I see that the scale STharangini is under Kalyani(M65)...not Neethimathi( MK 60)??????
  
  
• From: ravi68 (@ 216.67.96.53) on: Sat Sep 23 12:26:41 EDT 2000
  
  Sorry, yet another rsponse.No wonder SL is seeing "Kannaale..kaadal" as Kalyaniish..Do enlighten on this and on "Thenral Vandu..ennai thodum..( this looks like Hamsaanadham)"
  
  
• From: ravi68 (@ 216.67.96.53) on: Sat Sep 23 12:30:26 EDT 2000
  
  Another thukkada info...STharagini as i know is G N B's creation(was S Kalayanaraman inspired by his guru to use it in Bantureethi?IR?).
  
  
• From: SL (@ 63.253.6.5) on: Sat Sep 23 21:59:45 EDT 2000
  
  Vijay, thanks for the link. The guy seems to have some taste. ravi68, I never said I found anything Kalyani-ish:-)))
  
  
• From: SL (@ 63.253.6.5) on: Sat Sep 23 21:59:58 EDT 2000
  
  Vijay, thanks for the link. The guy seems to have some taste. ravi68, I never said I found anything Kalyani-ish:-)))
  
  
• From: IR (@ 63.38.37.237) on: Sat Sep 23 22:09:36 EDT 2000
  
  ravi68 - Regarding Saaranga Tharangini, it would fall under Dharmavathi - going by rules - but never under Neethimathi
  
  Kalyani is fine (this is the next possible mela)and may be this raga has more shades of Kalyani than Dharmavathi
  
  I do not know about the history of Saaranga Tharangini...
  
  
• From: ravi68 (@ 216.67.96.62) on: Sat Sep 23 22:30:56 EDT 2000
  
  Sorry IR... i meant Dharmavathi only, Neethimathi was a typo..but the scale S Thaarangini is listed under Kalyani not Dharmavathi...Can we then say that Hamsaanadham can have dha3,but if it has dha2 its Saaranga Tharangini? Or perhaps Hamsaanadham can have dh3 in the descent alone( a vakra usage like N D N), something like that?
  
  SL..i am sorry that was Vasu's response...:-)
  
  
• From: IR (@ 63.16.161.141) on: Sun Sep 24 07:34:55 EDT 2000
  
  ravi - I dont wanna say anything :)I dont think I have the expertise to conclusively say anything and am only posting my opinions/understandings :)
  
  As far as I know, Hamsanadham with dha3 also does not have a vakra usage...
  
  
  
• From: ravi68 (@ 216.67.96.188) on: Sun Sep 24 11:22:56 EDT 2000
  
  Thanks IR.
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.23.185) on: Mon Sep 25 01:17:57 EDT 2000
  
  Just a piece of thought:
  
  IR's kalyaani variations as we know are amazing. But listen "nirpadhuvE nadappathuvE" of bhaarathi - minimal orchestration. But the tune though extremely simple has a melody in it which is stirring the soul. The tune is extemely simple but addictive.
  
  
• From: silkfort (@ 202.9.162.74) on: Mon Sep 25 06:44:08 EDT 2000
  
  talking about bharathi, is "ninnai saran adainthaen" in hamsanandhi? what is "kaelada manida" in?
  
  
• From: Vasu (@ 192.35.232.14) on: Mon Sep 25 10:48:02 EDT 2000
  
  silkfort:
  Ninnai saran adainthen looks like hamsanandi. Havent heard the other one yet.
  
  
• From: Vijay (@ 131.107.3.70) on: Mon Sep 25 13:13:10 EDT 2000
  
  Could some one tell me the raga for the recent tamil song "Snehindhane" from the movie Alaipayuthey.
  Thanks
  Vijay
  
  
• From: IR (@ 63.17.3.218) on: Mon Sep 25 14:27:04 EDT 2000
  
  sounds like Sindhu Bhairavish Vijay..
  
  
• From: IR (@ 63.17.3.218) on: Mon Sep 25 14:35:24 EDT 2000
  
  especially the line "Vaazhvin ellai varai vendum vendum (second time" makes me think so ...
  
  
• From: Vasu (@ 192.35.232.14) on: Mon Sep 25 19:10:30 EDT 2000
  
  Kelada maanida has mix of ragas. I find maund (starting) and sindhu bhairavi. Gotta listen closer
  
  
• From: silkfort (@ 202.9.188.112) on: Tue Sep 26 00:31:19 EDT 2000
  
  some one throw light on ragas of songs in 'rhythm'. obvious one is 'katrae en vasal' which is in Kanada. what about others?
  
  
• From: IR (@ 38.220.167.197) on: Tue Sep 26 10:07:12 EDT 2000
  
  Rhythm and Bharathi songs link please???
  
  
• From: Vasu (@ 192.35.232.22) on: Tue Sep 26 10:47:41 EDT 2000
  
  Links:
  www.raaga.com
  
  silkfort:
  kaatre en vaasal may be darbari kaanada? i think darbari kaanada doesnt venture into upper octave. (because of its arohana). i dont remember if unni goes into tarasthayi in kaatre en vaasal. if so it may be kaanada. Any other specific sancharas which differentiate betn these two?
  
  
• From: IR (@ 38.220.167.249) on: Tue Sep 26 13:58:30 EDT 2000
  
  Vasu - what a lovely number - thanks for the link - sounds definitely like dhabaari kaanada - more so because of the usage of dha1 ... I would consider this to be one of the few songs with very little "kalappadam" in the main tune....
  
  I would rule out Kaanada ...
  
  

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