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vm and tms win padmashree

Topic started by barani (@ 64.230.12.105) on Sat Jan 25 16:58:28 EST 2003.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

http://www.rediff.com/news/2003/jan/25padma.htm

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Lollu Party (@ 61.6.38.132) on: Thu Jan 30 19:41:14 EST 2003
  
  I have maintained that MSV-TKR were better than
  >>> S-J, that IR is the best composer in India, and that KVM's classical songs outshine Naushad's.
  That today ARR is far superior to any North Indian composer.
  
  
  WOW! In one paragraph, av has captured all the different fans of TFM Pages! Now who is going to protest against him? :)
  
  
• From: Prabhu (@ 210.214.5.135) on: Thu Jan 30 20:15:03 EST 2003
  
  av
  I assume that you are a keralite who's spent your early days growing up outside south and that partly explains your love for NI culture. Is the surmise right?
  
  I am quite surprised by your onslaught on RB. I'd put up a separate page of his cricket articles 4 years back.
  http://www.angelfire.com/tn/justkool/rajub.html
  I really doubt if you'd commend any other journo coz RB is very precise when it comes to stating facts. A glance at his writings would immediately show the level of research he does. I've not seen many hacks do that, historian AG Noorani is an exception.
  
  Regarding your comments on south indians in the freedom struggle, there has always been more unrest in NI compared to SI, which has always been more peaceful. The number of communal riots in SI wont even be a fraction of that in NI, which has always had an uneasy atmosphere. Inspite of that, SI has produced several excellent servicemen like Gen.Sunderji, Raghavan etc.
  
  BTW, I grew up in a non tamil atmosphere in TN and for years I was fascinated by hindi movies and music, till I listened to...I listened to...come on, it's obvious who I listened to!! :)
  
  
• From: naaz (@ 24.87.28.203) on: Thu Jan 30 20:19:42 EST 2003
  
  AVR - (How quickly you forget your own request for courtesy, see?)
  
  Your choice of words speak for themselves. And frankly, I don't find your posts to be either illuminating or thought-provoking. I will admit that they are border-line insulting (and that might just be the diction you choose, not your thoughts as such, that being mostly absent.) But that must just be me, as I am clueless. Sorry for this limitation.
  
  There is something only you can clarify for me, and this is a request: Have you read Thirukkural, Silapadhigaram, Manimekalai, Kambaramayanam, Naladiyar? For that matter, do you speak, read and write Tamizh? What is your investment in tamizh, besides listening to film music, and how much of it do you really get?
  
  OISG is right. Tamil is the oldest Indian language with an established literary heritage long before the Aryans came down the Khyber Pass. Check it out, if you find this to be incredible. It is a fact.
  
  S.Janaki's voice is screechy in the high notes. This is also a fact. You don't need a doctorate in music to say this. Is this belittling her contribution to TFM or film music in general? That is entirely your leap.
  
  HYPE means media build-up which (often) proves anti-climactic when the work is out. It was not SRs fault (The Hindu review of Ivann also made a similar point.) I don't think that makes her an inferior singer. And I never said so. Asha's tamizh has come a long, long way since Shenbagame. But that is due to the generosity of tamil MDs who have given her more than a 100 opportunities to improve and do well. (The same token was never available to the singers from the south who tried to make a go for it in HFM. Some of them were just labelled as thaaahmil and sent packing. Interesting, huh?)
  
  But anybody who knows how to read basic english can see the undercurrent of bigotry in your posts. Just by adding one supposedly critical line about LM in the above post does not make you the embodiment of neutrality or objectivity.
  Lucky you, you don't have to identify the wonders that SS, Sukhwinder, UN, SG and the lot work for the tamil language. You are blessed. And the tamils who support such wonders are as well.
  
  I really don't have to read others posts to know what you are all about. Your posts are more than adequately revealing in themselves.
  
  Alas, there is no remedy for my narrow-mindedness and intolerance. It is chronic. But your pity warms my heart (honest!). I am indebted now.
  
  
  
• From: av (@ 132.216.68.122) on: Thu Jan 30 21:22:52 EST 2003
  
  Naaz,
  
  I do know that Tamil is the oldest language.
  I had thought it was Sanskrit until I a Tamil friend of mine told me the truth a good 5-6 years ago. I know that it has a great literature. I dont find it a "bitter pill to swallow" either. However, other Indian languages have their own great literature too (including mine, though my mother tongue is not as old as Tamil). It is unnecessary to belittle other languages in order to glorify Tamil. It is difficult to say that the literature of one language is "better" than the other. For instance, just because Latin is older than English, doesn't make Latin literature "better" than English literature.
  English has a huge percentage of words with French origin as well. that doesnt make French greater than English. And pointing this out is not the same as insulting the language. My statements to OISG are not to be construed as an insult to the Tamil language.
  
  I understand the overall feelings that TMS has been insulted by such a piffle of an award. I dont deny it. It is high time to award PS, IR, SJ et al, with a padmavibhushan atleast and I have stated this earlier categorically. But to say that one doesnt have to talk poor about all North Indians and compare them all to Laaloo Prasad Yadav. Tamilnadu is not the only state whose musicians have not been suitably honoured. Legendary singers, poets and MDs from other states(including mine) too have faced the same fate. This is therefore not an anti-south thing. It is due to the greater recognition that Hindi gets (maybe even undeservedly) and that Hindi is the most popular language (for whatever reason).
  
  There have been worthy politicians in the North and the South, as there have been corrupt politicians. (Would you for instance think that Salman Khursheed is in the same league as Laaloo?)
  This is also not an insult. North Indian (basically Hindi) movies make fun of South Indians and I dont like it one bit. But the fact remains that SPB too sang "ek chatur naar" in tribute to RDB. He too made fun of his own people. And the point also remains that Sardarjis and Marwaris are made fun of all over India, to the extent that even foreigners know about it.
  
  And my remarks about the freedom struggle were made after reading books on the topic, including university level books recommended even in the Southern states. If those books dont convey the truth, the fault is not mine. But the general perception does remain that the North Indians contributed more to the defence of the country. Perhaps thats the reason they tend to be more aggressive. But perhaps that might also be the reason why they don't have time for intellectual pursuits as much as people in the South do. The North being closer to the "enemy" nations is naturally more vulnerable. My point was NOT to assert the superiority of Northies over Southerners. Alas, s0 alone understood the meaning of what I am saying. And what I said, in no way, insults South indian culture or heritage. Therefore your calling me "racist" is unwarranted and certainly rude. (And s0, kalai, isaiosai are all Tamils who understand English as well). I neednt say anything further.
  
  Just as I cannot sense the horror of someone making mincemeat of Tamil, you cannot sense the horror of someone making mincmeat of my language (and you definitely dont know it, admittedly) :-)
  And MSS etc, a national treasure, does make mincemeat of it! That she is far,far,far more accomplished as a singer than SK is another point, but that doesnt spare her.
  
  
• From: av (@ 132.216.68.122) on: Thu Jan 30 21:35:38 EST 2003
  
  One of the longest lasting stars of film music, Janaki has a **sweet** voice that can reach **high pitches with consummate ease**. She first became famous in Tamil film world with the song Singara Velene in `Konjum Salangai'. She has sung a lot of memorable songs scored by Ilayaraja. Especially, many of her duets with SPB are real treats to hear.
  
  http://www.newtfmpage.com/my/singer/sjanaki.html
  
  
• From: Lollu Party (@ 61.6.38.132) on: Thu Jan 30 22:15:23 EST 2003
  
  av, this is for your reading pleasure: http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/mag/stories/2003012600160200.htm
  
  Amazing isn't it?
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.87.28.203) on: Thu Jan 30 22:54:10 EST 2003
  
  AVR -
  
  I did not post here to be part of a popularity contest. Neither was it my intention to get into people's good books. I believe my posts are self-explanatory, and are seldom tangential. I am grateful for those who have valued my contribution here and have said so. I accept that gracefully, although I wouldn't have considered it amiss had they not said as much. Quoting a coterie of supporters and well-wishers is not my style. I know a few people here who truly believe in the exchange of intellectual thought and appreciation of Indian cinema and music. I am grateful for that gift. One-upmanship is not a game I play well, just as much as I don't subscribe to the numbers game.
  
  The only reason I took you to task on the RB issue was that as a fellow journalist I felt that he was being maligned without proof and authority. Hearsay should never be confused with scholarship. THAT, in my view, is a low blow (considering RB is never going to get here to defend his credentials or qualifications.) I felt obliged to say what I did, as I view RB (another southerner!) to be one of the more meticulous and conscientious journalists/historians around. End of story.
  
  Please continue your pursuits here, and overlook this interruption. Thanks.
  
  Naaz
  
  
• From: vengayam (@ 203.200.84.67) on: Thu Jan 30 23:05:34 EST 2003
  
  
  Av, I do not know about the others but Subash Jha has only two pet obsessions-Lata & RK Narayanan. He venerates the former & vilified the latter. He also makes a lot of noise in between. His typical attitude is to rave & rant about an album & glorify it when the composer/singer's next album comes out.Of course the raving & ranting will be for the new album.
  OISG, During Deva Gowda's time I think Raj Kumar got DS Phalke award. So when an opportunity came around southies too can indulgein you know what
  Also Naaz, welcome back.
  
  
• From: Speaker (@ 203.126.142.232) on: Thu Jan 30 23:06:44 EST 2003
  
  Southern states head tax charts
  Sunil Jain in New Delhi | January 30, 2003 14:06 IST
  
  If tax collection figures are anything to go by, the image of the law-abiding south Indian and the lawless north Indian appear to be largely correct.
  http://www.rediff.com/money/2003/jan/30spec1.htm
  
  (Just related information for N&S)
  
  
• From: s0 (@ 63.246.174.208) on: Fri Jan 31 00:01:16 EST 2003
  
  more digression: (but it is more interesting isn't it??
  I have no intention to be a part of this acrimony nor do I want to belong to any coterie. I am neither knowledgeable (about RB, VJ, Lata ..) nor wise enough to take a stand or make a judgement either way.. I admire both your posts and look forward to more from you.
  
  on RB: I do know that he's (was?) the crossword setter for The Hindu. but, sorry Prabhu, I get almost exasperated reading through his articles that seem overwhelmingly sodden with superfluous verbosity, ostentatious pedantry & almost cloying wordplay (thanks naaz for the words. ungala madhiriye try panninen!) I prefer the simpler versions of the erstwhile ace R. Mohan & the present Nirmal Shekhar.
  end dig. (there seems to be no hope for this thread)
  
  

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