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Musical Merits &Demerits of IR and ARR [Only for fans, not fanatics!]

Topic started by V (@ 147.129.99.180) on Thu Jul 17 16:26:37 EDT 2003.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

To bring our healthy/unhealthy discussion on music merits and demeits of IRR and ARR out of the Thangar Bacchaan thread I starting this thread so that it would be more appropriate.

I expect people who post here to be fans and not typical fanatics. Expecially the young ARR fans and the "Theevira" Raja fans

Thanks!

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Dude (@ 67.167.55.147) on: Sat Sep 20 03:54:21 EDT 2003
  
  "Sometimes he was the HERO of the movie and nothing else."
  
  More emphasis on the word "was"... IR lost steam long back, probably sometime during the period when he started using karthik raja's music in his movies... And nowadays he is not getting even those kuppai movies once used to specialize in...
  
  p.s. MIL, that 'thatha' part was just for fun. hope i did not carry it too far. my apologies if i did.
  
  
• From: sabesan (@ 68.155.194.181) on: Sat Sep 20 07:55:54 EDT 2003
  
  "IR lost steam long back" - i bet i will hear this 10 years down the lane - when IR still keeps giving hits like "Azhagi", "Kasi"..... well, iam tempted to say about some other MD - but nah..... what is the point talking about an MD who releases just one movie per year :-)....
  
  
• From: MusicIsLife (@ 67.85.193.232) on: Sat Sep 20 10:06:36 EDT 2003
  
  Dude,
  Dont bother about the "THATHA", it did hurt, when I was expressing my opinions and I personally did not attack any body.. and surely it does not change my opinions, coz I am more of a Music Lover than "ONLY IR" person. May be I have a lot of friends in the Film industry (esp MD's) and IR surely has a bias from my part. But surely I dont accept IR's recent albums are not gr8, similary ARR's (coz this DF is for Merits... of IR and ARR, i use the name).
  
  What hurts me the most is just blatant statements by some of the ARR fans like "He mixed Pop and Rock", "He was the first one to introduce Rock to India" and "HE IS FOR TAMIZH NOT FOR INDIA" things like that..
  
  Then I dont accept it. Nevertheless I have not listened to most of the recent albums, are they appealing for me(personally) NO, but are they good, some of them (like the Telugu Albums).
  
  Coming back to my point: Whether He "WAS" or He "IS" doesnot matter, but you must understand for the fact that No OTHER MD in TF industry had that much CONTROL until now, it will be a HERCULEAN TASK to get that kind of recognition. Is there anybody to get that kind, I dont think it is a probability for any MD...
  This is a UNDISPUTED FACT that people book the MD and then all others when IR held his SWAY, i might be wrong, did it happen in anyother Film Industry?
  Even with the emphasis on "WAS" IR is truly one of the gr8est India has ever produced, i correct my statement, Tamizh produced which India should be proud of...
  
  Did you notice and dont you wonder why we still compare IR and other MD's, instead of current MD's between themselves more? that is the Merit of IR.
  
  We should start thinking objectively than subjectively, chart busters and appealing Music are good, Are they really GOOD QUALITY MUSIC and will stand time? We should wait and see, but IR music has done that...
  
  I hate long posts.. but needed to express my opinion..
  
  Take it easy.
  
  
• From: MIL (@ 67.85.193.232) on: Sat Sep 20 10:07:45 EDT 2003
  
  But surely I dont accept IR's recent albums are not gr8
  should read
  But surely I dont accept IR's recent albums are gr8
  
  
• From: V (@ 147.129.98.2) on: Sat Sep 20 14:30:01 EDT 2003
  
  MIL
  
  Here is a statement from you:
  
  "Atleast pazhasa pathi pesarathukku IR mathiri oru isai amaipalar irunthar, ippo irukkaratha pathi pesarathukku kooda orutharayum kaanom. though isai-puyal did some dramatic changes a few years back, now after hearing to monotonous MTV, V CHANNEL music, we find it not so fresh/innovative. "
  
  See, you can praise IR how much ever you want, but why do you have to compare and denounce ARR?? I dont even want to argue whether your point is valid or not (ofcourse I dont agree with that point you mentioned)
  
  Only of you do this ARR fans come up with retaliatory posts that would not come otherwise.
  
  Please do praise IR, but please avoid demeaning references to other MDs. BEcause by doing so you are obviously hurting some strongly held sentiments and stirring up an agitation.
  
  This applies to Me, You, and all of us.
  
  At first thought I thought I will write against your arguments but now after much contemplation, I know it will lead to a dispute in this forum. SO I dont want to answer it.
  
  But please do continue your posts and opinions and try to avoid derogatory references either directly or indirectky. Holds for me too and I also accept I have swayed from this.
  
  
• From: MusicIsLife (@ 67.85.193.232) on: Sat Sep 20 16:42:20 EDT 2003
  
  V,
  Sorry if I hurt you, All i meant was people now live in the Dream world of giving MTV, V channel type music thinking that it is the trend, which is wrong. I surely did not want to be derogatory..
  
  
• From: MusicIsLife (@ 67.85.193.232) on: Sat Sep 20 17:07:32 EDT 2003
  
  V
  And All i was trying to get was the too much expectation being satisfied.
  It happened with Thalapathy movie when GV shares rose to 34Rs and dropped 2 days after the release
  
  
• From: Dude (@ 67.167.55.147) on: Sun Sep 21 03:44:02 EDT 2003
  
  "We should start thinking objectively than subjectively, chart busters and appealing Music are good, Are they really GOOD QUALITY MUSIC and will stand time? We should wait and see, but IR music has done that..."
  
  MIL, can you objectively define what you call as GOOD music???
  
  p.s. now that our personal issues are solved, we can really discuss music here. thanks for accepting my apologies...
  
  
• From: Dude (@ 67.167.55.147) on: Sun Sep 21 03:46:06 EDT 2003
  
  And please dont say things like "the music should touch your heart" etc. etc. These things dont mean anything when you are talking objectively...
  
  
• From: MusicIsLife (@ 67.85.193.232) on: Sun Sep 21 10:08:05 EDT 2003
  
  Dude,
  In my opinion (very personal), A person who recognizes the music should be reminded of some emotions, his hair in the back of the neck raise each time, and you feel that there is something different you hear. And there is a complexity expressed in a very simple lay man term, and ofcourse it must touch your heart.. Like I said b4 I like ARR's pavithra "Uyirum Neeye and Uravum Neeye" touches me more than Ammavendru azhaikadha though I am a very gr8 fan of RK, IR, KJY
  
  I am very much a fan of Hard Rock/Metal.. so i can tell you with relation to that, There are so many bands out there, but Green Day's good riddance song is very much heard.. In a TFM parlance lots of songs of IR has done that for me. So personally, i will have to wait to hear a long standing music, and I must add After Hey Ram, Guru i have not heard that outstanding music from IR either, till somebody referred me for some Telugu songs which were good.
  
  Dude: I think you might be in this forum telling somebody (who is talking about another MD) later the same thing about ARR I have told you, but probably in your own words.
  
  Hope I gave a little satisfying answer.
  
  P.S: i did not take it personal, but it took me a while to think and write some opinions.
  
  
• From: Dude (@ 67.167.55.147) on: Mon Sep 22 04:00:17 EDT 2003
  
  I can see that you realise that this objective definition you gave is highly personal. Which means you accept the fact that the millions and millions of people who listen to music, each have their own definition of 'Good music'.
  
  Which means that what is good music music for one person need not be good music for some other person.
  
  You claimed:
  "We should start thinking objectively than subjectively, chart busters and appealing Music are good, Are they really GOOD QUALITY MUSIC and will stand time? We should wait and see, but IR music has done that..."
  
  Music (or any other form of art, for that matter) can never be discussed objectively. Good music is always subjective.
  
  Having cleared that, think about this: a person would listen to a song only if he/she thinks that the song is good. So, if lakhs and lakhs of people listen to one particular album or one particular song, can I safely conclude that so many people felt that the album/song is good...
  
  I want to say that chart busters and cassette sales are an indication of how good the music is. I am not saying it is the only indication, but it also one. And again, the converse is not true, i.e. if an album does not become popular, it does not necessarily mean that it is not good.
  
  IR's cassette sales and chart ratings has been dismal ever since ARR came into the picture. I have never see one IR album which hit the charts or set the cassette/cd sales ablaze. But when you take ARR, he has proven again and again and again in this regard. Not only in India but in many countries all over the world.
  
  Mind you I am making a direct comparison between IR and ARR after ARR's entry into TFM. I am not talking about the pre-ARR era :-)
  
  
• From: MusicIsLife (@ 67.85.193.232) on: Mon Sep 22 08:47:42 EDT 2003
  
  Dude,
  An objective thought always leads to a subjective conclusion in my opinion..
  
  "I want to say that chart busters and cassette sales are an indication of how good the music is"
  
  I don't accept this: it indicates how popular the type of Music is and How much hype and expectations have gone into it.
  
  "IR's cassette sales and chart ratings has been dismal ever since ARR came into the picture"
  
  I dont accept that is true.. In my opinion Isai Puyal gave a stiff competition, IR did fade away for quite sometime b4 he came up with Kadhalukku mariyadai, and sometime later Hey Ram, got his direction focussed into Mallu movies, then he went off for his Symphony, so it did have the various effects. I can see only IR being there as competition rather than a Force he used to be in 80's
  
  But look at this IR is always hoped for to give a gr8 hit.. the faith in him has not gone that low yet (even when he is at 60 and gives all the youngsters the run for their money).
  
  IR's music has not been that dismal as you are saying, the recent albums are not even good (for my opinion about gnani, like Manasellam did nothing to me, Kaasi was a good album, Azhagi was good, ivan-> appadi parkarthunna venam was the best in my opinion of the three albums). They surely did not hit the highest in the charts.
  
  Again: If we consider that, ARR's uptil boys, from AP have been dismal, I might not have numbers, but isnt it true?
  
  I have more to tell, will write later..
  
  
• From: MADDY (@ 203.94.233.74) on: Mon Sep 22 09:22:49 EDT 2003
  
  MIL, ARR has eaten up IR in all the ascpects like cassette sales,Making big-budget movie run, National fame, international recognition.......it's just that he did not achieve 100% fan-following in TN bcos of IR's dominance........i need not tell it again and again how good is a average tamilian's taste.......
  
  

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