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IR or ARR

Topic started by M.Anand (@ ihproxy1.proxy.lucent.com) on Tue Jan 18 01:03:04 EST 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

hi all, I am Anand from bangalore and a new visitor to the tfm page. I am a great fan of both ARR and IR. I browsed through all the earlier threads on ARR and IR. It seems to me that there are quite a few anti ARRs out here.

Let me tell you something about IRs music. IRs music became popular and sounded different because he tried to bring in a westernization of Carnatic ragas in his songs. Even a dappanguthu was in Lathaangi or sivaranjani. That actually made the difference. Otherwise he is no great MD. One might argue that such a westernization or incorporation of a carnatic raga in a dappanguthu or jazz is something that demands great applause. But IR doesn't deserve that because, if u say u are tuning a song in a particular raagam, you have to bring out the nuances, the laya and bhaava of the raagam in to the song. Just traversing the swaras in the raagam here and there does not mean that u have tuned a song in that raagam. Ilayaraaja has done just that, a mere traversal through the swaras. In many places, there were apaswaras also. ARR has tuned very few songs based on Carnatic ragas but they were classics. For example Mettu podu in Anjali is a beautiful song in Ananda Bhairavi. He has brought out every nuance of the raagam in that song. Minsaara Kanna in padaiyappa is an excellent piece in vasantha. En mel vizhunda mazhai tuliye is again a beautiful piece in kaapi. A real mix of the east and west. That is what u call fusion. Ilayaraaja boasts of having composed songs in rare raagas like chala nattai, kanakangi etc. For example pani vizhum malar vanam in chala nattai is again a pure note traversal. There was no attempt to bring out the nuances in the raaga. So IR knew how to make songs sound good but ARR gives a fine polish to each and every one of his songs. IR composed music for 700 odd films. Hey Ram is his 785th film. Considering 7 songs per movie, he has tuned almost 5500 songs. Huge number indeed but hardly 5% of those songs are listenable others are 100% pure junk. But 99.9% of ARRs songs are listenable and they are also good numbers. What do you say about this?

Regards,
Anand

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Raj (@ 203.126.228.21) on: Thu Feb 10 23:30:32 EST 2000
  
  ARR SONGS ARE WOUNDERFUL WORTH TO BUY ALL HIS ALBUMS.
  
  
• From: S (@ netcache31.mot.com) on: Fri Feb 11 02:12:10 EST 2000
  
  "WOUNDERFUL" :-))
  
  
• From: even cho's hair hates him (@ ppp-89-55.bng.vsnl.net.in) on: Fri Feb 11 03:57:03 EST 2000
  
  Let keep himself with in politics,
  music ctric is SUBBUDU's domain,
  he hails IR, thats enough!
  
  CHO scratch his arm pit etc.. in raj tv..
  In BBC he will sit like a LKG student,
  talk about hypocrisy.
  
  
  
  
• From: even cho's hair hates him (@ ppp-89-55.bng.vsnl.net.in) on: Fri Feb 11 03:57:15 EST 2000
  
  Let cho keep himself with in politics,
  music ctric is SUBBUDU's domain,
  he hails IR, thats enough!
  
  CHO scratch his arm pit etc.. in raj tv..
  In BBC he will sit like a LKG student,
  talk about hypocrisy.
  
  
  
  
• From: Genuine musician (@ 202.9.149.184) on: Fri Feb 11 07:57:13 EST 2000
  
  I.R.s music was like fresh morning dew,spring and the loveliest things man can think of-it used to make ones heart leap in ecstasy-that was till 88 or so.After that it is still great but the magic is missing.We have no right to critisise a genius like I.R. or an equal genius like A.R.R.whose music has evoked raptures amongst right minded music lovers.Have any of you A.R.R. bashers heard the strings/chorus arrangements in a song called Minnale from May-maadham-there is a violin solo before the charanam which is worth around 1 crore rupees.That 2 bar violin piece is enough to stun any true rasika.This is enough to start with.
  
  
• From: s.senthilkumar (@ 202.144.10.93) on: Fri Feb 11 10:00:21 EST 2000
  
  Dear Sabesan!
  
  If what you said is correct then it is a really sad thing that a intelligent man like CHO has given that much foolish statement.
  
  I respect CHO very much but in this matter , No doubt!!! CHO's statement is a pure rubbish......
  
  Well! Lets believe this is a slip of his "naakku" or as he is a MSV fan, maybe he love ARR because lot of times ARR's songs resembles MSV's tunes like "enna vilai alage " from " thanga pathakkathin mele"!!!!!!! :)))
  
  
• From: Diwakar (@ 206.175.177.136) on: Fri Feb 11 20:11:06 EST 2000
  
  Genuine Musician :
  
  I have heard that ARR charges a lot as it is. If he goes about computing the monetary worth of his music like you have done, he might give Bill a run for his money. Assuming that the rest of his music is that good, though. :-)
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ 209.8.128.113) on: Fri Feb 11 22:01:30 EST 2000
  
  Genuine Musician:
  Yes, I have heard that song - Minnale. I don't have the time or patience to counter-quote a thousand different, better pieces from IR's songs. ARR has never been any match of IR in any aspect of music composition. ARR's music may be worth 1 crore to you, I wouldn't waste 25 bucks on it. But more importantly, ARR is not an "equal" genius. He is a creative, talented musician with extra-ordinary grasp of people's tastes. If anything, he is an "inferior" genius :-) Just for the record, I qoute with the same kind of conviction that prompted you to estimate ARR's score to be worth 1 crore !
  
  
• From: NVD (@ bkj-cache82.jaring.my) on: Fri Feb 11 23:53:26 EST 2000
  
  ARR and IR...calling which one a genius?
  
  May the right (and the most qualified) person to evaluate ARR's 'geniosity' is IR himself BUT he must do it unbiased to his children ie. KR & YSR. If we (ordinary listeners without deep musical knowledge) review ARR's music especially his sentimental songs, we could find that his tunes could even capture non-Thamizhan's heart because of his way of fusing raagas and pop! Of course, originality never comes to mind at first place!
  
  
• From: s.senthilkumar (@ 203.197.154.174) on: Sat Feb 12 03:07:36 EST 2000
  
  AYYA ISAI RASIGA SAMIKALE!!!
  
  ILLAYARAJA VODA COMAPARE PANNARATHUNNA , ORU BEETHOVANIYO ILLAI ORU MOZARTIYO COMPARE PANNUNGAPPA.....
  
  .POYUM POYUM REHMAN KUDA COMPARE PANDRATHU NIYAYAMA?????
  
  DON BRANDMAN KUDE VINOD KAMBLIYAI, PETE SAMPRAS KUDE LEANDER PAESI, SIVAJI GANESAN KUDE AJITHAI,
  PELE KUDA RONALDOVAI,
  RAVIVARMA KUDE JAYARAJAI,
  KAPILDEV KUDE MOHANTIYAI,
  MICHEL SHUMACHER KUDE ALESIYAI,
  SINGAM KUDE CHINNA SIRUTHAIYAI .........
  
  OPPIDARATHU ROMBA...ROMMBBBA...ROMBAROMBA...
  ASINGGAMA KETHUMMA.......:) :)))
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Genuine musician (@ 202.9.148.56) on: Sat Feb 12 07:23:36 EST 2000
  
  Dear Srinath,I.R.s instrumentation is also worth a million dollars to any true music lover.I enjoy his music as much as you do.But spare a few moments and listen to A.R.R. objectively.There will be always surprises in his music.For me he has given the same joy that I.R.s music did.So to each his own.But dont run down A.R.R.s music.That is a little sad.Mr N.V.D.,only GOD is orginal everything else is inspired.Dear Diwakar,good barb that was.But do you know A.R.R. got paid 25000Rs for Roja.I think SenthilKumar should get into politics-he will go far.
  
  
• From: jagan (@ sitar.ee.vill.edu) on: Sat Feb 12 19:58:20 EST 2000
  
  I don't think that it makes any sense to compare these two great musicians.They have entirely different styles and have both produced great music.Honestly I like them both.So biased music lovers like Anand who say things like "only 5% of Raja's song are good,rest trash" and "99.9% of Rahman's songs are good" should probably try and keep their eyes open.Ratchagan,Sangamam,Mudhalvan,Taj Mahal,Vandi Cholai Chinraasu,Kaadhalar Dhinam - all these boast great songs,do they?And why don't you talk about that famous case in which ARR used the
  funky line of " All that she wants" by Ace of BAse in Telephone manipol...He has his great songs but he has his REAL low points too....being a mortal.
  Ilayaraja has his own great points - the tremendous use of the violins & the flute,superb chorus & humming,great integration of carnatic raagas and western pieces & BGM's.Most importantly his music has very high & melodic emotional content.His songs are multi-layered and touch ac hords at the sub-conscious level.You think anyone can compose a symphony in a MONTH and get it played at the Royal Philharmonic?
  Of course he has his negative points - sometimes his music sounds not very rich & plain,he didn't use many singers-SPB & Janaki again & again and repetitive music for stunt & other sequences.But I guess he stands much taller in terms of sheer melodic content.
  As music lovers,lets me broad-minded and appreciate good stuff,wherever it comes from.
  ciao,
  
  
  
• From: your good friend (@ wdslppp129.sttl.uswest.net) on: Sat Feb 12 20:54:53 EST 2000
  
  srinath, I am sorry, your words are totally out of bad taste.
  
  
• From: sabesan (@ ws-209-233-228-92.webvangroup.com) on: Sat Feb 12 21:10:55 EST 2000
  
  your good friend (Srikanth???), i thought Srinath was just giving back in the same words of "
  Genuine Musician".....
  
  
  
• From: sad (@ wdslppp129.sttl.uswest.net) on: Sat Feb 12 21:37:58 EST 2000
  
  
  If anything, he is an "inferior" genius :-) Just for the record --
  srinaths golden words,
  --- frankly this made me right the below.
  
  Why the hell the great genius lost his place, name, fame etc , could not produce scores that impresessss a group of people outside this df,
  Many directors moved out to someone else!' why why?...(oh I hear -- those people are traitors.....)
  Go and find the answer instead of screaming at people (latest addition to the dam list is CHO Ramaswamy...just because he made a statement)
  
  Happen to see a prabhu's movie, Manaam virumbuthe unai nambi.....a bucket of crap -- sub standard songs with substd re-recording...as per title music is supposed to be raja.
  ....genius keep producing good stuff, what ever may comes..?
  
  
  Do you guys think no one can touch the harmonium and succeed, if they do so , mercylessly call it luck, advt.., gimmicks .etc.
  
  How many hear knows how hard arr works on a song? few here!..will say cut and paste.....copy... as though raja has not copied he is 100% original...
  if someone else copies it is red marked underlined, put karpolli sempollie on them...
  but if raja does it, skip them as nothing has happened.
  (Latest lifts title score in Mugam
  and today in Manaam virumbuthe unai nambi.....one of the bgm score lifted from "thank for your music!"...if you dont belive me rent the video and hear it...best is he boasts other musicians are plastic musicians! ((:
  
  No one bothers about these things and kili pulla mathri utter the same thing arr copies he is dumb, no where near raja and what not!.
  
  Live and let live other musicians,
  raja does not own tfm.
  srinath....I am very sad with your postings.
  
  There use to be days when singers from south will want to sing in north, but now it reversed.
  tfm is going great guns...Arr would have been thrown out the moment he stops producing good music, belive me same happened to raja. until then enjoy his music.......he has topped all the charts, and I have been posting here since 1997, and till date arr is being bashed!....just for the reason he threw out raja...the best part is he keeps growing up.....:-))))...
  
  if you like rajas music only,welcome listen to it , just to bring him up I request people here not to throw acid on other musicians, who really struggle to come up!...
  
  Beat it...stop bashing arr, give a time out to this little lad from tamil nadu, who made entire India to listen tamil music, sing in tamil film music...
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.22.112) on: Sat Feb 12 22:23:59 EST 2000
  
  bOthai yerip pOchchu..buththi maaRi pOchchu.. :-)ayya, Sri vs Sri - please clam down...ayyO..enna ivLo tension reNdu pErukkum ?Cooooool..
  
  

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