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IR or ARR

Topic started by M.Anand (@ ihproxy1.proxy.lucent.com) on Tue Jan 18 01:03:04 EST 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

hi all, I am Anand from bangalore and a new visitor to the tfm page. I am a great fan of both ARR and IR. I browsed through all the earlier threads on ARR and IR. It seems to me that there are quite a few anti ARRs out here.

Let me tell you something about IRs music. IRs music became popular and sounded different because he tried to bring in a westernization of Carnatic ragas in his songs. Even a dappanguthu was in Lathaangi or sivaranjani. That actually made the difference. Otherwise he is no great MD. One might argue that such a westernization or incorporation of a carnatic raga in a dappanguthu or jazz is something that demands great applause. But IR doesn't deserve that because, if u say u are tuning a song in a particular raagam, you have to bring out the nuances, the laya and bhaava of the raagam in to the song. Just traversing the swaras in the raagam here and there does not mean that u have tuned a song in that raagam. Ilayaraaja has done just that, a mere traversal through the swaras. In many places, there were apaswaras also. ARR has tuned very few songs based on Carnatic ragas but they were classics. For example Mettu podu in Anjali is a beautiful song in Ananda Bhairavi. He has brought out every nuance of the raagam in that song. Minsaara Kanna in padaiyappa is an excellent piece in vasantha. En mel vizhunda mazhai tuliye is again a beautiful piece in kaapi. A real mix of the east and west. That is what u call fusion. Ilayaraaja boasts of having composed songs in rare raagas like chala nattai, kanakangi etc. For example pani vizhum malar vanam in chala nattai is again a pure note traversal. There was no attempt to bring out the nuances in the raaga. So IR knew how to make songs sound good but ARR gives a fine polish to each and every one of his songs. IR composed music for 700 odd films. Hey Ram is his 785th film. Considering 7 songs per movie, he has tuned almost 5500 songs. Huge number indeed but hardly 5% of those songs are listenable others are 100% pure junk. But 99.9% of ARRs songs are listenable and they are also good numbers. What do you say about this?

Regards,
Anand

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: kannan (@ news.ti.com) on: Mon Jan 31 07:41:20 EST 2000
  
  Well said Neels
  
  
• From: vijanth (@ conpc007.ee.qub.ac.uk) on: Mon Jan 31 08:33:46 EST 2000
  
  You all must know one thing, Anand already have
  good bashing at the 3rd day after the
  article published.
  He is now in Lucent Network Research , and
  surfing newtfmpage will be last resort in his life.
  Madhan had put it well and now you Neels.
  I told the web master to take away the thread since it becomes a bashing ground.
  I think we have enough and Anand is indeed a
  empty tin and with empty thoughts
  
  
  
• From: Bhuvana Jagan (@ 1cust88.tnt1.redmond2.wa.da.uu.net) on: Mon Jan 31 13:05:08 EST 2000
  
  Hi All,
  
  Its really nice to c some good responses here in this site. Well each one special in one way or the other. I admire good notes from any place/person regardless of from where/who it comes. What Dr. Arun and Neel says is right. I think we Indians will have to learn a lot in appreciating good things in life. Throughout the world ppl admit good things and appreciate each other even for the finest things and every day cores they do and c where we are fighting for which[both being Indians] is top over the other. Individuality is one important degree which hold a MD apart from his competitors. So each one build his one career on this. This might be a style of that MD in creating music. But that doesnt mean the other person will have to be compared to the former and pulled down. Mr. Anand I would appreciate if u start being a little open in admiring all the good stuff available in music instead of just throwing ur thots raw and ignorant of its inner details. Hope most of u'll agree with me...
  
  Thank you
  
  
• From: Denis Ponniah (@ infosun-fd.rus.uni-stuttgart.de) on: Mon Jan 31 13:57:24 EST 2000
  
  Hi Bhuvana Jagan,
  Great! keep it up.What you have said holds good to all spheres of life. "Give even the devil its due"
  Product is more important than the brand in Art.But in business brand is more important than the product.We are concerned here not with business but rather ART.Music is an art.It has to be judged from the point of view of its quality.Let us stop mud-sligging and continue our appreciation for the good.
  Thanks
  
  
• From: Kamesh (@ pm-102-18.tm.net.my) on: Mon Jan 31 19:55:58 EST 2000
  
  Point to note.
  
  Both IR and ARR are Gold medallists in Western Classical from (probably) the same London music college and both studied there on a scholarship and both passed with distinction. Correct me if I am wrong.
  
  
• From: goodlucktou (@ sbproxy2.mystarhub.com.sg) on: Thu Feb 10 09:06:58 EST 2000
  
  poor novice topic started by a poor old fool.
  
  pls do not step into such territory when u got no knowledge of isaignani's or arr's music.
  
  & pls go to novice site and spend time there till u reach musical puberty.
  
  
• From: s.senthilkumar (@ 202.144.10.93) on: Thu Feb 10 10:50:23 EST 2000
  
  Hello Dr.S.Arun!!
  
  you said ,"I remember reading an article quoting CHO-RAMASAMY. He apparently said that after the early 70's(before the entry of IR) he listened to good music only after ARR's arrival into
  films. "
  
  you are 100% wrong!
  
  Usually, I have read each and every word Mr.Cho writes .. whether in Thuklak or in some other magazines. He never said a statement like he didnt hear any good music in the period of Raja.
  He just said in comman that " he is not likeing the todays trend of "sounds" in the name of music."
  
  and all he said for the credit of arr is just that he love the songs " ennavale" and " varaga nathikariyoram" . thats all.
  
  Ofcourse he is one among of the very few "soul full" men in tamilnadu and he knows that IR is the ultimate of all.
  
  
  
• From: s.senthilkumar (@ 202.144.64.77) on: Thu Feb 10 10:51:27 EST 2000
  
  Hello Dr.S.Arun!!
  
  you said ,"I remember reading an article quoting CHO-RAMASAMY. He apparently said that after the early 70's(before the entry of IR) he listened to good music only after ARR's arrival into
  films. "
  
  you are 100% wrong!
  
  Usually, I have read each and every word Mr.Cho writes .. whether in Thuklak or in some other magazines. He never said a statement like he didnt hear any good music in the period of Raja.
  He just said in comman that " he is not likeing the todays trend of "sounds" in the name of music."
  
  and all he said for the credit of arr is just that he love the songs " ennavale" and " varaga nathikariyoram" . thats all.
  
  Ofcourse he is one among of the very few "soul full" men in tamilnadu and he knows that IR is the ultimate of all.
  
  
  
• From: Sabesan (@ ws-209-233-228-67.webvangroup.com) on: Thu Feb 10 12:50:47 EST 2000
  
  hello senthilkumar.... u r 100% wrong.... Cho did say such a blunt statement, not in his Thuglaq issues, but in 'Minsara Kanavu' album release or some function in which ARR, AVM Saravanan and others participated.... he said bluntly "after MSV's period, now only iam hearing good music".... i think he has 'selective amnesia'.... wait, i like Cho's all other arguments, but i will not agree with him in this topic.... well he is an HC-MSV fan..... so there is nothing new in him opposing IR.....
  
  
• From: Achach-cho! (@ mail1.pmc-vacc.com) on: Thu Feb 10 14:07:30 EST 2000
  
  Cho? A soulful man??
  
  ROTFL
  
  
• From: Shyam (@ 203.197.135.29) on: Thu Feb 10 14:24:07 EST 2000
  
  Hai I am shyam . I read Anand's analysis of AR & IRR. It appears that he has not heard tamil film music between 1975 and 1995. If at all he heard the music of such timeless classics like Sindhu Bairavi, Raaja Paarvai, Salangai oli and even more recently Mogha mull , he will know that classical music was presented by Ilaiyaraaja in numerous simple forms that reached the common man. Lest he forgets that with little or no lobbying , No reinvention of Indian National anthem , pop packaging of Vande mataram in a croone that hits the sensibility of every aesthetic minded Indian, Ilaiyaraaja has proved that he is the only music director who is respected by musicians abroad as a composer. Therecent Hey ram premeiere was evidence to his musical & composing skills.
  
  I think that Rahman has played every possible marketing trick in the book that people like Anand talk as if the first good adaptation of Anandabairavi was done by ARR.Rahman is a good sound engineer and his music is in the Jingle format of composing - a technique used to make little kids tap their feet. If that is enuff you may as well see some recent ads made in India. Jingles can never be lasting songs. Moreover the lyrical gimmickry resorted to by no less a man as Vairamuthu has led to stupid english lyrics coming into every film. The standard of songs and soul less music under ARR will not stan the test of time.
  
  May anand remember that around the same time Deva scored 20 songs in the same raga and his songs however mediocre did better than the duet song.
  
  
• From: Shyam (@ 203.197.135.29) on: Thu Feb 10 14:25:02 EST 2000
  
  Hai I am shyam . I read Anand's analysis of AR & IRR. It appears that he has not heard tamil film music between 1975 and 1995. If at all he heard the music of such timeless classics like Sindhu Bairavi, Raaja Paarvai, Salangai oli and even more recently Mogha mull , he will know that classical music was presented by Ilaiyaraaja in numerous simple forms that reached the common man. Lest he forgets that with little or no lobbying , No reinvention of Indian National anthem , pop packaging of Vande mataram in a croone that hits the sensibility of every aesthetic minded Indian, Ilaiyaraaja has proved that he is the only music director who is respected by musicians abroad as a composer. Therecent Hey ram premeiere was evidence to his musical & composing skills.
  
  I think that Rahman has played every possible marketing trick in the book that people like Anand talk as if the first good adaptation of Anandabairavi was done by ARR.Rahman is a good sound engineer and his music is in the Jingle format of composing - a technique used to make little kids tap their feet. If that is enuff you may as well see some recent ads made in India. Jingles can never be lasting songs. Moreover the lyrical gimmickry resorted to by no less a man as Vairamuthu has led to stupid english lyrics coming into every film. The standard of songs and soul less music under ARR will not stan the test of time.
  
  May anand remember that around the same time Deva scored 20 songs in the same raga and his songs however mediocre did better than the duet song.
  
  
• From: Shankar (@ fw1.abb.com) on: Thu Feb 10 15:02:28 EST 2000
  
  Shyam,
  
  Welcome to the club. Vandhavudanaeye, Thirupachi aruvalai theetttiyae! Enna irundhalum indha sorugu soruga koodadhu! Since you are so forthcoming in your views on ARR, get ready for spam mail from some undesirable elements. That's their way of discouraging feedback.
  
  Keep the "conversation" going.
  
  

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