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IR or ARR

Topic started by M.Anand (@ ihproxy1.proxy.lucent.com) on Tue Jan 18 01:03:04 EST 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

hi all, I am Anand from bangalore and a new visitor to the tfm page. I am a great fan of both ARR and IR. I browsed through all the earlier threads on ARR and IR. It seems to me that there are quite a few anti ARRs out here.

Let me tell you something about IRs music. IRs music became popular and sounded different because he tried to bring in a westernization of Carnatic ragas in his songs. Even a dappanguthu was in Lathaangi or sivaranjani. That actually made the difference. Otherwise he is no great MD. One might argue that such a westernization or incorporation of a carnatic raga in a dappanguthu or jazz is something that demands great applause. But IR doesn't deserve that because, if u say u are tuning a song in a particular raagam, you have to bring out the nuances, the laya and bhaava of the raagam in to the song. Just traversing the swaras in the raagam here and there does not mean that u have tuned a song in that raagam. Ilayaraaja has done just that, a mere traversal through the swaras. In many places, there were apaswaras also. ARR has tuned very few songs based on Carnatic ragas but they were classics. For example Mettu podu in Anjali is a beautiful song in Ananda Bhairavi. He has brought out every nuance of the raagam in that song. Minsaara Kanna in padaiyappa is an excellent piece in vasantha. En mel vizhunda mazhai tuliye is again a beautiful piece in kaapi. A real mix of the east and west. That is what u call fusion. Ilayaraaja boasts of having composed songs in rare raagas like chala nattai, kanakangi etc. For example pani vizhum malar vanam in chala nattai is again a pure note traversal. There was no attempt to bring out the nuances in the raaga. So IR knew how to make songs sound good but ARR gives a fine polish to each and every one of his songs. IR composed music for 700 odd films. Hey Ram is his 785th film. Considering 7 songs per movie, he has tuned almost 5500 songs. Huge number indeed but hardly 5% of those songs are listenable others are 100% pure junk. But 99.9% of ARRs songs are listenable and they are also good numbers. What do you say about this?

Regards,
Anand

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: danis ponniah (@ infosun-fd.rus.uni-stuttgart.de) on: Tue Jan 25 08:47:24 EST 2000
  
  Hi Eden
  Please bear with me for the mistake in my previous post. Replace 'Mr Shankar' by 'Mr Anand'.
  
  Danis
  
  
• From: Madhan (@ 202.41.117.3) on: Tue Jan 25 21:21:54 EST 2000
  
  To the Dear TFM DFer, who forgot to or deliberately kept his name anonymous !!
  "Podhuvaaga yen manasu thangam, oru pottiyinu vandhuvittaa Singam" - I belong to that category - some mediocrities like SAR,Deva in the South, Anand - Milind, Anu Malik in the North will have people oozing adoration for them - but a rare genius like IR is not only ignored, but somebody dares to tarnish his name for the heck of it ! In other countries, celebrities in the any field of art are treasured like precious jewels - in this country, ungrateful people throw muck on them - welcome to the India in the new millennium -
  
  BTW, I have many many more quotes - but when the time and the situation arises, I shall unleash them !
  
  
• From: cram (@ 206.103.12.102) on: Wed Jan 26 04:44:21 EST 2000
  
  madhan,
  ungal thondu IR rasika kodigalukku thevai. appappa kaivarisaiyai kaattunga
  
  
• From: kk (@ 202.54.125.189) on: Wed Jan 26 07:29:51 EST 2000
  
  Hi Friends,
  Iam Prasan from Mumbai.I discovered this site just a few days back.I think friends we should not fight over who is greater.Both are musicians who are successful and a class apart.Wheras Melody is concerned IR is the king and wheras Rythm is concerned ARR is the king.
  I have been following ARR's career right from the Roja days.I think in the past decade ARR has been more successful is because he does very few films and with only good directors wheras IR has does a lot of films because of which quality suffers.
  I don't know much of Carnatic music but I find ARRs numbers worth listening and there is only One Album of his which I felt cheated on buying.It was really crass(a film called Andhi Malai) All other albums have been very good and waiting for 1 month for an album of ARR to release is worth the wait.
  
  About ARR and his musical influences.
  
  I think ARRs music is somewhat influenced by the music of PETER GABRIEL(of World Music),MORY KANTE(an AFRICAN Artiste) and NUSRAT FATEH ALI and also recycling his own music.
  The thing is ARR picks up very small musical notes from here and there which he develops and produce it with an altogether different sound.
  I agree with ANAND that 99% of ARRs music is excellent.
  
  Thanx
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Shankar (@ fw1.abb.com) on: Wed Jan 26 12:07:28 EST 2000
  
  I belong to the generation which was attracted to TFM by IR. IR is a master craftsman who had an intuitive music sense; however, he had to put in a number of years before he was widely acclaimed and there is immense hard work behind his success. IMHO, ARR is a top of the line digital sound engineer at this time; given some years, he will mature into a great MD. Like the Pepsi ad, ARR could be the choice of the new generation!
  
  
• From: baasha (@ 202.9.149.217) on: Sat Jan 29 07:03:40 EST 2000
  
  like anand has said, illayaraja isadept in converting dappanguthu to a hit by usage of caarnatic ragas.though the headweight illayaraja claims that he knos every raaga, he is not able to explore the laya and bhava of say, a raaga.
  arr is really great. comparing him with iraja is like overshadowing allah rakha rehman.
  
  
• From: baasha (@ 202.9.149.217) on: Sat Jan 29 07:03:50 EST 2000
  
  like anand has said, illayaraja is adept in converting dappanguthu to a hit by usage of caarnatic ragas.though the headweight illayaraja claims that he knos every raaga, he is not able to explore the laya and bhava of say, a raaga.
  arr is really great. comparing him with iraja is like overshadowing allah rakha rehman.
  
  
• From: saravanan (@ 212.57.28.212) on: Sat Jan 29 08:13:50 EST 2000
  
  Kandapadi ularna oru aallai (Anand) konja naala intha pakkam kanam ippa neengala baasha nalla kidaykkapoguthu
  
  
• From: srini (@ sandalwood.cisco.com) on: Sat Jan 29 08:43:46 EST 2000
  
  Anand,
  Pls buy a cassete of
  1] Moga mul,
  2] Salangai oli,
  3] Sindhu Bhairavi
  
  This is just a random sample,
  and listen to the bhaawa and raaga in it.
  
  Ppl. who lift songs from Dr.Albuns music library and popular tunes like ace of the base can make the so claimed 99% of their songs hearable only for a short period of time.
  
  
• From: baasha (@ 202.9.149.37) on: Sat Jan 29 09:49:34 EST 2000
  
  saravana, neenu enna vennamnallum sollu, illayaraja llam summa arrahman paakkaracche.
  
  
• From: Dr.S.Arun, London,UK (@ userbf79.netscapeonline.co.uk) on: Sun Jan 30 19:32:57 EST 2000
  
  Hi everyone,
  I don't normally venture into such unproductive arguements/discussions. But this ARR'S gentleman 'ANAND' who started this topic, really amuses me.
  
  I remember reading an article quoting CHO-RAMASAMY. He apparently said that after the early 70's(before the entry of IR) he listened to good music only after ARR's arrival into films.
  No wonder he's so soul-less(IR's music was for people who had one)
  
  It doesn't take too much thinking to diagnose this 'phenomena'. Just look at the likes of CHO, Maniratnam, Balachander etc. Who are they and what is their background? Why do they shun this poor man(IR) from PANAYAPURAM?
  (But I realize there are always a few exceptions to everything)
  
  Everything is man made & music doesn't have to be defined by specific Ragas & Swaras. After all music is basically cheating people because all you have got is 7 ragas to manipulate and modulate according to your skill and knowledge.
  
  Dear Mr.Anand, Thank you very much for letting everyone know that you have a great understanding of Ananda Bhairavi, Vasantha, Lathaangi & Sivaranjani. Please feel free to listen to music that gives you happiness and peace of mind. Just remember that there are scores of souls out there deriving pleasure from listening to the so called 100% junk music(irrespective of what Raga it is or just a note traversal).
  
  Remember that everyone's an individual and music is highly subjective.Any music that can put you to sleep, relax your mind, give simple pure happiness or just give you a 'kick' could be called good music as long as the listener is happy. It does not have to confine itself to any orthodox pre-set
  ragas.
  
  
  warm regards to all
  
  arun
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Ilayaraaja rasigan (@ 202.54.71.29) on: Sun Jan 30 20:34:55 EST 2000
  
  Hi everyone,
  I really dont know why Iam into it but iam here. Some knownedleable has started it and iam appearing in defence of my 'Thai'- since he has composed some real soul stirring Thalaattu's.
  Well Mr.Anand and ofcourse Mr.Baasha we (IR Fans)always dont indulge in cheap discussions but I have been forced into it o.k.
  U have said ARR is real genius let it be,o.k.
  
  JUST ASK HIM TO THROWAWAY HIS KEYBOARD AND PLEASE ASK HIM TO COMPOSE A SONG USING A HARMONIUM AND PLEASE ASK HIM TO WRITE THE NOTATIONS FOR THE SONG SIMULTANEOUSLY.....Are u really ready for the show but we are ready for it.
  
  All the best Mr.Anand and Mr,Baasha.
  
  Ilayaraaja rasikan.
  
  
• From: Nakkal (@ hlr-13-200.tm.net.my) on: Sun Jan 30 22:06:27 EST 2000
  
  Dear Rasigan
  
  You could have as well posted this mail thru a post card instead of using the net:-)
  
  
  
• From: Naveen (@ rocib102-28.splitrock.net) on: Sun Jan 30 22:12:55 EST 2000
  
  Dear IR rasigan,
  
  A person who plays classical (WCM or CM) runs in keyboard can play in Harmonium also. He may find somewhat difficult to play, as the number of keys is less in harmonium. Ofcourse, sometimes ARR uses preprogramed runs like Arpeggios and gliss.
  Writing western notation is not a very big thing. ARR may not write notes as fast as IR, but he is not ignorant. He has learnt western classical music.
  There are so many people in Tamilnadu (other than IR), who can write western notations so fast.
  I don't know who gave an idea that a song can be composed only using Harmonium...
  
  Naveen
  
  
• From: NVD (@ bkj-cache82.jaring.my) on: Sun Jan 30 22:15:59 EST 2000
  
  I am in total agreement with Dr.S.Arun's opinion that music is a subjective issue. If you feel satisfied with a piece of music, then you will say that "that music is really good..who's the MD" and you search for the name of the MD. That particular MD will be your favourite choice of MD.But at the same time, another person will be out of mood and the same music piece will appear to be annoying to him..finally the MD get blamed for that. You see..music is really a subjective issue. One person's music is another's noise. The creators of music (ie. Beethovan, IR, Kitaro etc.) or modifiers of it (ie. arr, deva etc.)are often referred to when their music leave a touching impression or condemned when it does the otherwise.
  
  One must realize that criticizing and praising has its limits, and when one goes beyond the threshold based on the prejudice against race or sentiments, things will turn to be wild. And this is what TFM is NOT for. Please stop finding faults on IR or ARR. Both of them are musicians of their time..disparated only by age and experience. Leave them alone and just enjoy what you wanted from them. Remember..One person's music is another's noise.!
  
  
• From: Neels (@ ppp-203-197-9-150.bom.vsnl.net.in) on: Mon Jan 31 00:08:02 EST 2000
  
  Hello ANAND!
  How old are you?
  My question is based on the belief that anyone who has been exposed to IR's Golden Period (late '70s to early '90s) wouldn't make such sweeping statements on his knowledge of music, and his 'inefficiency' in bringing out the essence of a Raga.
  I like ARR's compositions and appreciate them well. But in order to praise someone, who has just started out, you don't need to bring another down!!!
  
  I am a Classical music buff and I have always admired Raja's genius, especially in his use of classical music, popularising even rare ragas:
  Are you aware of a film called Kovil Pura?
  Sample this number in RasikaPriya: 'Sangeetame En Jeevane'. Or 'Amudhe Tamizhe' in Rasika Ranjani.
  
  Sample the excellent use of NatakaPriya in Moga Mull: 'Nenje Gurunatharin Sevadi Ninaindu'.. and Ramapriya from the same movie: 'Kamalam Paada Kamalam...
  
  Take 'Moham Ennum Theeyil En Manam': In Raga Kanakangi from the film Sindhu Bhairavi.
  
  IR has used rare ragas like
  Vahulabharanam,
  Paavani,
  Vasanthasri,
  Sarasangi,
  Katyayini,
  Malavi,
  Rathnakanthi,
  Srothasvini,
  Sallabham,
  
  .. there's more.
  In fact, I suggest you visit Ramaswamy Gireesan's page which has some of his rare raga collections.
  Even heavy ragas like Todi, Keeravani and Sudha Saaveri have been handled by him well with compositions such as 'Gangaikkarai Mannanadi' from Varusham 16 ; 'Kaatril Endan Geetam' from Johny and 'Kaadhal Mayakkam' from Pudumai Penn respectively.
  
  Karaharapriya, Kalyani, Kedaram, Shankarabharanam, Gowri Manohari, Darbari Kanada, Mayamalava Gowlai, Chakravakam, Dharmavathy, Hindolam, Abhogi.... the list goes on...
  
  I don't know if your idea of starting the thread was to see the impact your statement has on the TFM regulars! In which case you have defilitely succeeded. But, I suggest you do some homework too. Take my advice and start collecting IR's work. I'm sure you will discover something! And do send all of us a Thank You card for introducing a great composer to you.
  
  With regards,
  Neels
  
  

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