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WHY IR CAN NOT BE THE BEST OF TFM?

Topic started by karthi (@ lab3.theatrium.net) on Sun Jan 31 04:05:48 EST 1999.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I have found since I came into this forum that there are many IR lovers who, just would not pay heed to listen to great works of Viswanathan Ramamoorthy or the like who had done wonders to the Tamil Film Music, but only go about claiming him to be the best.

Similarly, the ones who do not treat IR as the best have not found an opportunity to compare his works or so called creations with the great works of other musicians.

I would like the arguments to confine only to the Tamil Film songs in their completeness, and please, don't bring in the Re-recording or the Back Ground Music of a film, or separate albums from the MDs if any. After all, when we hear songs we don't always think of the movies they came from!

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Raj (@ master.hyd.deshaw.com) on: Mon Feb 1 15:22:15 EST 1999
  
  Srikanth! Oru vazhiya ungalukku Raja-fans-in valiyai, pain-ai puriya vaikkum sandharppam enakku kidaithu vittadhu!
  
  Eppadinnu kelunga.
  "This might apply to ARR, but it is too insulting to add MSV's name with ARR. "
  
  ValikKudhu illaI? MSV-nu sonna adhe moochila ARR-nu sonna , idhayam thudikkuthu illai?
  
  Idhe vali thaane engalukkum irinthirukkum...neenga raja-vaiyum ARR-aium compare pandrache?!!
  Athuvum mathavanga (ARR-fan maadhiripattavanga) compare pandrache ellam engalukku kashtama illai.
  But when a musician like you compared ARR with Raja and said things like:
  " ARR is to 90's what IR was to the late 70's and 80's".
  "ARR has done innovations as much as IR",
  
  Engal idhayam thudithu thavithathai neengal ariveergala? You said that to spite hard-core IR-fanatics. But oru naalavadhu did u think of the pain that your outrageously , deliberately flaming statements on the maestro caused to IR-fans like me,srinath, madhan, vijay, suresh, SM,.....
  Do I feel a sense of deja-vu? Yes, sure. This is the other side of the coin.
  Let me confess somethinG: My starting a thread on "MSV copy aditha paadalgal' was related to this. I was expecting that someone will be lax enough to compare MSV with ARR or Deva so that YOU will understand the pain it causes a reasonable fan like me to see his idol being compared with non-entities. I am sorry..I was being sadistic in a way...but imagine how much pain must have been caused to me for me to take that course of action. I sincerely apologise for my "Not-so-honourable" intentions in starting that thread. But I am glad that no one was lax enough to compare MSV with ARR there. Here, too Anand HAS NOT compared ARR with MSV, let me make it clear. (Anand, i hope you dont misunderstand me..I am not saying you were being lax at all..).
  
  Srikanth , I hope you understand the pain of IR-fans atleast now.
  Sorry if I hurt you. And sorry for the "MSV copy aditha .." thread. But, I must confess, I didnt expect that there would be copied songs by MSV:).
  
  
  
• From: Raj (@ master.hyd.deshaw.com) on: Mon Feb 1 15:26:48 EST 1999
  
  I forgot to mention that there have been posts comparing IR to Deva(Yes!Deva) in this forum. Let me take this opportunity to squarely condemn all who have been guilty of this 'sin'(:))and may I remind them that there is such a thing called "Judgement Day", when you have to answer for all your sins!
  (Sorry, this is dhjksfl stuff!)
  
  
• From: Karthik (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Mon Feb 1 15:28:06 EST 1999
  
  Top Ten Reasons why IR is better than MSV
  
  10. His tremendous output (atleast twice the number of movies that MSV scored before being burnt out ... Agree with it or not MSV did burn out. Many thought IR had run out of creativity in terms of mass appeal too, but he has come back with a bang in recent times).
  
  9. His outstanding interludes. (I guess elaboration is not needed on this).
  
  8. His ability to score music that conveys *precisely* THE mood that the director wants too. In MSV's case, moods were conveyed more by the lyrics than the actual tune and arrangement.
  
  7. He had (and has) a better mastery over rhythm than MSV.
  
  6. Works by himself (No TKR to help him out...). Ok, you will counter saying KR is helping him orchestrae songs now, but let us say for most part he worked by himself.
  
  5. How to Name it.
  
  4. Nothing but Wind.
  
  3. Background Music. MSV is a nobody in this area. (Sadly...)
  
  2. He is IR.
  
  1. His FUTURE work.
  
  
• From: Raj (@ master.hyd.deshaw.com) on: Mon Feb 1 15:40:29 EST 1999
  
  "His outstanding interludes. (I guess elaboration is not needed on this). "
  
  
  Ah! karthik..what have I been doing all this day but explaining why Raja's interludes are not "outstanding"....I mean, supposedly, his interludes "stood out" (i.e) digressed from his main tune! I spent all my time refuting that and then you say this!JIJ...:)
  
  Seriously, in this imperfect world , you cant expect everything, Karthik.We have to explain why IR's interludes were outstanding(not standing out!). This is a discerning audience out here, Karthik. They cannot be convinced by claims alone... So, I must observe, please back your claims with solid facts(in IR' case, as you and I will not hesitate to agree, these exist aplenty, so there must be no problem obtaining these facts!). Join the fun..welcome ,Karthik.
  I agree with 3, 8, and 9 of your reasons..and I think that I am not being self-congratulatory if I say I , along with Madhan, Srinath and a host of others, have covered ENOUGH ground for these claims in this thread itself. AS FOR THE rest of the reasons, especially 1 and 2, ungalukku kurumbu konjam jaasthiyo?
  
  
• From: Mukund (@ bart.americas.nokia.com) on: Mon Feb 1 18:17:53 EST 1999
  
  Hi everyone,
  
  Some more pages have gone up before I could reply.
  
  Hi Karthi,
  It is nice that you can apprecaite my explanation on the interludes. Ignore the Jazz part - it does not fit so well with the situation here. And one mistake in my posting - "I do want to say that MSVs songs do not provide a sense exhilaration. There are a lot of MSV's songs which have moved me so much. But my point is intensity levels which I experience with IR's songs are out of the world."
  
  Hi Raj,
  
  It is certainly an happy thing when someone can sync on the thoughts, and I was happy to see your posting.
  
  
  Mukund
  
  
• From: Mukund (@ bart.americas.nokia.com) on: Mon Feb 1 18:19:04 EST 1999
  
  BTW, Raj, I think Karthi and Karthik are different and there web addresses differ.
  
  Mukund
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ slip-32-101-16-178.il.us.ibm.net) on: Mon Feb 1 19:19:24 EST 1999
  
  ----->
  
  10. His tremendous output (atleast twice the number of movies that MSV scored before being burnt out ... Agree with it or not MSV did burn out. Many thought IR had run out of creativity in terms of mass appeal too, but he has come back with a bang in recent times).
  ---> No MSV was fighting his way back even after Raja's venture, Raja just gave up too easily.
  
  9. His outstanding interludes. (I guess elaboration is not needed on this).
  ----> They are good, but you have not heard MSV.
  Have you heard Ulagaum sutrum valiaban, Meenava nanban, Idhaya kani, Avarlgal, Aboorva rangangal more and many more...your sampling is not very good.
  
  8. His ability to score music that conveys *precisely* THE mood that the director wants too. In MSV's case, moods were conveyed more by the lyrics than the actual tune and arrangement.
  ----> JUST A SAMPLE : have you heard Nilave endiam neruganthe..
  in Ramu, his tunes conveys one sided love...
  
  
  7. He had (and has) a better mastery over rhythm than MSV.
  -----> No way, as far percussion is concerned MSV tala nadai is much complicated than Raja, I did not say it , people like Siva mani , SPB including Raja have told this.
  
  6. Works by himself (No TKR to help him out...). Ok, you will counter saying KR is helping him orchestrae songs now, but let us say for most part he worked by himself.
  -----> TKR did not contribute much, Amar did many bg scores for Raja, you cannot deny that, Raja was so busy Amar had to complete it.
  This reason is totally invalid.
  
  5. How to Name it.
  
  4. Nothing but Wind.
  ----> MSV had done many albums,
  one is still used by radio ceylons.
  apart from Kirshna Ganaa vol1 vol2 and many more.
  
  3. Background Music. MSV is a nobody in this area. (Sadly...)
  ----> see ulagam suturum valiban... he was the first to do good rerecording.
  
  2. He is IR.
  ---> He is a Film Music University.
  1. His FUTURE work.
  --> MSV released all his work, Raja is yet to release his Symphony.
  
  Msv's sandam is by far top class than raja.
  Raja scores are falt notes, more towards wc music.
  Madama maligaiil, Amanai Azaithu vidum kanmanai..
  These scores will prove what I say.
  
  
  Srikanth
  
  
• From: karthi (@ urcom1.solocup.com) on: Mon Feb 1 20:12:26 EST 1999
  
  Hallo Karthik !
  
  "IR had (and has) a better mastery over rhythm than MSV"
  
  ----THIS IS THE BIGGEST JOKE I HAVE HEARD IN RECENT TIMES.
  
  Infact, the most boring aspect of IR's music was his monotonous beats which started as early as the times of "Salangai Oli"!
  
  Anand and Others!
  
  I am working on it. I will get back with the list of IR's songs (which probably will not see its end though) which will qualify in all respects to fit into my reasons for IR's songs failing to catch up with the oldies.
  
  (Though I said I am working on it, it's quite and quite a tedious process you know because when I think of one IR song (because I hardly remember there are 1000s of them in this category which are not worth remembering) and start to hum it, I inadvertently find myself already into another song, and still worse ending in yet another song! Thanks to IR!
  
  
  
• From: SM (@ 208.236.83.26) on: Mon Feb 1 20:50:55 EST 1999
  
  
  Karthi,
  
  While I would sincerely stand by your side on saying that the old melodies were the best in TFM, I would also say that IR is the best, complete MD in India, let alone TFM.
  
  Definitely, the old melodies are a great treat to the ears. If I list the no. of MSV-TKR songs, that I still remember and more important, I love to hear again and again and also list the no of IR songs, I would say the former has a big list. But, that is not enough to call a MD as THE best. There are other aspects that are important for deciding that. BGM - It is very very important to call a MD as the best. Definitely, IR's BGM is world class and far ahead of the rest, which includes, MSV and TKR also. If you say just songs, then I will say MSV-TKR have given more everlasting melodies. But, IRs time was different and even in that he was able to give lots and lots of everlasting melodies - a number which will be just 0.5% - 1.0% less than what MSV-TKR have given. This is a wonderful achievement. How many films have survived just because of IR? How many people have survived just because of IR? The number is countless. Putting all these factors together, I will not hestitate a bit to call IR AS THE BEST MD IN INDIA and to add it, I will say the advent of IR is the best thing that can ever happen to TFM.
  
  
• From: RV (@ synvpn.synplicity.com) on: Mon Feb 1 21:33:47 EST 1999
  
  Hi Guys,
  
  Because of various reasons, I had stopped surfing thro these pages for nearly 6 months. The hot topic when I stopped browsing is how IR is tops and everybody else is a distant second. After 6 months, it is still the same! Looks like I hvnt missed much.
  
  #1, #2 etc. are subjective, why cant we leave it at that!
  
  

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