Raga of song please

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Raga of song please

Topic started by Gopal Prasad (@ greed.cs.umass.edu) on Sat May 17 07:42:45 EDT 1997.
All times in EDT +9:30 for IST.

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Hindi Raaga of Songs Thread

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Old responses
From: MS (@ 129.252.25.204) on: Mon Sep 17 15:27:00 EDT 2001

Raghu:

your presence here has just bolstered my confidence to include more mallus..others pardon me :-)

Of the songs u have listed down, I have listened only to HHA. There is another song in the film thalolam in same raga - OrangaLil OrangaLil OrmagaL iLAgunnuvO.

IR - thx for clarification. Please explin jog further.
From: IR_Fan (@ 202.88.154.169) on: Tue Sep 18 00:51:24 EDT 2001

Thank you IR...

Two doubts in "moondram pirai"..
1)Poongaatru puthiraanathu - ?
2)Kanne kalaimaane - (is it kaapi)
From: Saketh@Atlanta (@ 130.207.33.162) on: Tue Sep 18 09:14:50 EDT 2001

What raagam is "Panneeril nanaidha pookal mella sirikka..." Is is mohanam? Nadhiya is the actress in this movie, I don't know the movie's name.
From: srikanth (@ 12.5.10.130) on: Tue Sep 18 14:29:47 EDT 2001

guys , after reading nice and interesting postings here,
I felt, first we need to understand few Basic differences between a scale and a raga.
for example : I Look at raga of songs from a "modes" perpspective, how ever a raga is superior to a mode, it has 1 more dimention.

good to note thilang is being discussed!
Check "unai ondru keten" from pudhiya paravai, a different usage of thilang.
From: Sirumi (@ 38.220.167.197) on: Tue Sep 18 14:31:51 EDT 2001

ayya periyavare - what is a mode :)
From: srikanth (@ ) on: Tue Sep 18 14:45:15 EDT 2001

ir, first I object to calling me "periyavare"...:):):)

Let my try to be simple,..

Modes are variant abstract from Major scale
starting from a different note. Consider the C Major scale [C,D,E,F,G,A,B,C] which has 7 notes: If you start from D with the same 7 notes, you get a new scale [D,E,F,G,A,B,C,D].
Basically, starting the series from any of 7 notes would give you a different scale and these are called "Modes". We can say the Lydian scale that starts from F is close to Kalyani.

There is also a concept called pentatonic scales-- this is a scale of five notes.
A set of any 5 notes per octave will qualify as a pentatonic scale. Eg: C major pentatonic is C, D, E, G and A... which sounds like mohanam this can also can be heard in Chinese or japanese forms of music,.
From: IR (@ 38.220.167.197) on: Tue Sep 18 15:25:18 EDT 2001

srikanth - are you saying modes = melakartha ?? one mode for each melakartha?
From: srikanth (@ 12.5.10.130) on: Tue Sep 18 15:42:43 EDT 2001

ir, my view is the word "scale" is not used in the right sense to call it a melarkaratha.
imho, Shurti is called as a scale.
The so called Shankarabaram (mapping an ocatave of full tones in WC) is C major, D Major, E major every thing looks like Shankarabaranam.

I would rather call "Ionian" mode. I say this because , Mode is derived some what like melakartha scheme . Dorian(D), Phrygian(E) are few other modes.
From: IR (@ 38.220.167.197) on: Tue Sep 18 16:12:45 EDT 2001

Saketh, I could spot Mohanam, ShankarabharaNam and KalyaNi/Yaman in that song
From: hihi:-) (@ 128.111.113.181) on: Tue Sep 18 17:42:12 EDT 2001

:-). let me add to the confusion :-)). ragam is like what the tamils call paNs. it is defined by a set of notes + rules as to how to use them (gamakams + prayOgams) + emotional content. mode is almost all these except gamakams. (prayOgams are defined for various modes, but everyone breaks the rules :-), swamiji probably is a better person to elaborate.) as srikanth pointed out scale should be considered only to mean shruthi.
From: Isav (@ 203.195.184.194) on: Wed Sep 19 11:55:37 EDT 2001

IR Fan
Poongaatru puthiraanathu - Sindhubairavi
Kanne kalaimaane - Keeravani
From: Isav (@ 203.195.184.194) on: Wed Sep 19 11:59:22 EDT 2001

Scale is one shifting of the starting point of the notes.
Raga involves combination of the notes.(Swarabedham may be equivalent to scale)
From: srikanth (@ 12.5.10.153) on: Wed Sep 19 12:06:41 EDT 2001

Scale is one shifting of the starting point of the notes. - isav, perfect,

can I augument in your statment ?
Scale is one shifting of the starting point of the "ROOT" note. Other notes in a scale are decided based on the Root.
From: IR (@ 38.220.167.197) on: Wed Sep 19 12:27:32 EDT 2001

Super makkals. But, dhemenu poindu irundha thread la dhadal budal nnu jargons ellam aLLi veesi engaLa ellam bayamoorthareengaLe :-)

anyway, although am totally with u in the the definition of the term scale, I would like to point out that in reality raga and scale are used interchangeably. It is very common to see people talking about melakartha ragas as: for example Keeravani Scale/melam, Ganamoorthi scale/melam, Shanmugapriya scale/melam etc. We need to also keep in mind that western Classical music is a 12 note based system and we have 16 notes in Carnatic Music. Having said that, am not sure if we could still think of scale as an equivalent of sruthi bedham. Talking strictly from a practical point of view, I think (definitely not from WCM side - I have no clue about that! - sriki echchuse me eh!) the term scale is used to denote an arrangement of notes in a raga - the ascending and descending notes (aarohanam and avarohanam). This is not correct theoritically, I agree. The term raga goes one step further and embellishes these notes with proper usage of gamaka and brigga. This is just IMHO. I may be totally wrong.

would love to hear from others too...

anyway, why did we start this conversation !! :-) :-) (sriki andha pakkam vaanga, udhaikkaren) :-)
From: srikanth (@ 12.5.10.153) on: Wed Sep 19 12:44:16 EDT 2001

oh!...the scale you talked about is not the WC scale, it was (y)our own easy term! for aarohanam and avarohanam!...sorry i got conpused!...

in (road side) cricket we had a jaron called
"played vechuko", this is requested by the non-striker often in the final ball of an over, meaning just defend the ball this came form the statement "well played defensive shot" ...:):)
jargons...are of various kinds..

ir, endapakkam ponalum dharma adi vizudhu!..
it is very hard to be a teacher and a student :):)
From: IR (@ 38.220.167.197) on: Wed Sep 19 12:49:01 EDT 2001

:-) sriki - unga raasi appadi- BTW, innikku horoscope la ungalukku enna pottirukku - dharma adi?? :|
From: srikanth (@ 12.5.10.153) on: Wed Sep 19 12:50:18 EDT 2001

ir :)
From: hihi:) (@ 63.253.6.94) on: Wed Sep 19 15:13:00 EDT 2001

IR, antha pakkaththin address enna ? :)
From: IR (@ 38.220.167.197) on: Wed Sep 19 15:34:22 EDT 2001

:) arul - enna oththaasai kku varen nnu solreengaLa - kandippa :-)
From: hihi:-) (@ 128.111.113.76) on: Wed Sep 19 18:49:03 EDT 2001

ir:

that hihi:) is not me. i am hihi:-). enna oththAsai vENum chollunga. (please don't ask me to share your dharma adi-s :-))) )
From: aruLaracan (@ 128.111.113.76) on: Wed Sep 19 18:50:23 EDT 2001

well. i goofed up :-). i meant to sign the previous one as aruLaracan, but pazhakka dhOsam signed off as hihi:-)
From: MS (@ 129.252.25.204) on: Wed Sep 19 21:01:52 EDT 2001

yOv hihi..poonai vENumaa? :-)
From: IR_Fan (@ 202.88.154.169) on: Thu Sep 20 05:09:25 EDT 2001

From: Isav

"IR Fan
Poongaatru puthiraanathu - Sindhubairavi
Kanne kalaimaane - Keeravani "

Really?!??....explain, will you...please
From: Isav (@ 203.195.185.217) on: Thu Sep 20 11:37:58 EDT 2001

I will leave the explanation to other friends.Come on friends Xplain!
From: Vasu (@ 192.35.232.99) on: Thu Sep 20 11:59:39 EDT 2001

Kanne kalaimani - almost based on kiravani. Though g3, n2 also creep in the charanams. g3 comes in the beginning of charanam, and n2 at the end of it.
From: IR (@ 4.3.189.8) on: Thu Sep 20 12:48:16 EDT 2001

Vasu, Isav: Dont you think the song has traces of kaapi and keeravaNi?

I am not able to listen to the song once again to confirm but this is from what I remember.
From: MS (@ 129.252.25.204) on: Thu Sep 20 16:22:19 EDT 2001

poonkaatru pudhidhaanadhu - sindhubhairavi
kaNNe kalaimaane - would call it "aari pOna kaapi".
From: srikanth (@ 12.5.10.153) on: Fri Sep 21 11:20:41 EDT 2001

IR,
can you tell me the ragam(s) found in this song..
"Kadal rajiyam" from manavan vandhanadi.
composer:msv.

link:

rtsp://66.27.220.21/songs/ppp/tmsps/kaadhraaj.rm
From: srikanth (@ 12.5.10.153) on: Fri Sep 21 11:42:23 EDT 2001

also for this song from meennava nanbam..

rtsp://66.27.220.21/songs/ppp/vj/pongum.rm
From: IR (@ 38.220.167.197) on: Fri Sep 21 11:47:34 EDT 2001

sriki - neenga ellam biggu shottu ippadi sirumi ya test paNNi paakkardhu nyaayama saamiyov :-) irungo edhaavadhu DF thread la umma gavanichukkaren :-)

the first song is not set in "a" raga - has shades of behag, kaapi, brindhavana saranga etc... all those ragas with Ni3 Ni2 combo...
From: srikanth (@ 12.5.10.153) on: Fri Sep 21 11:48:35 EDT 2001

ir, also please dont worry i will not pop into "modes" and other wc jargons :)
i felt these songs are so different
From: IR (@ 38.220.167.197) on: Fri Sep 21 11:49:51 EDT 2001

sriki - is that the song by vani J? read old responses - vijay raised this question a while back :-))
From: srikanth (@ 12.5.10.153) on: Fri Sep 21 11:57:24 EDT 2001

ir, thanks,
yes, it is by vaniJ,
also in this song, hear the mallets sounds (xylophones) placed over the song.
very good melody. , IR, this what i mean by a melody :):)
From: IR (@ 38.220.167.197) on: Fri Sep 21 12:02:57 EDT 2001

sriki aNNa - neengaLum unga MSV mm engayooo irukkeL :-)
From: Sriram Lakshman (@ 63.253.226.186) on: Fri Sep 21 15:40:20 EDT 2001

Srikanth, 'pongum...' touches all notes of Harikambhoji but leaves out Ri for the most part. The initial humming reminds me of 'Odam nathiyinilE' by Seerkazhi for MSV in 'kAththiruntha kaNgaL'. This scale, I guess is one his favourites, 'pottu vaiththa mugamO', 'nizahal kaNdavan nALumingE' (ninaiththAlE inikkum) etc.
From: vijay (@ 129.252.25.96) on: Fri Sep 21 16:29:06 EDT 2001

Srikanth, I believe "pongum kadalosai" is set in Valaji..(kalawati is the Hindustani equivalent)

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