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Yesterday - Illayarajah Today - A.R. Rahman Tomorrow - Yuvan Shankar Raja

Topic started by Pras (@ 66.185.84.71) on Sat Jan 25 08:43:29 EST 2003.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Who Do You Think Is The Yesterday, Today, Tomorrow MD of TFM?

I think its:
Yesterday - Illayarajah
Today - A.R. Rahman
Tomorrow - Yuvan Shankar Raja

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Sreeni (@ 203.56.247.153) on: Thu Jul 31 22:26:52 EDT 2003
  
  "try to understand that majority of people hav never accepted ARR. "
  
  Thanks for showing me the light. No doubt I was hallucinating when I heard roadside urchins, cycle-mechanics and vegetable vendors humming and dancing to songs like Mukabla, Thillana and Ottagattai.
  
  "so called upper rich elite. "
  
  I notice that this is a favorite refrain with you. Time and again you steer the conversation away from musical aspects to a rich-poor question. I don't what your problem is, but I can't help you with it.
  
  
• From: xml (@ 128.148.68.110) on: Thu Jul 31 22:34:34 EDT 2003
  
  You tell me first of all who is considering ARR in the industry.
  
  Go to the past
  
  MSV time. MGR,SIVAGI etcc ruled.
  
  IR time. IR ruled.
  
  ARR time. YSR,HJ,VS,MANI SHARMA ruling!!!!. And the past came back vijay ajith,vikram etcc..
  
  Who is looking for ARR now not even the jimbu.
  
  
  
• From: Sreeni (@ 203.56.247.153) on: Thu Jul 31 22:34:38 EDT 2003
  
  "Dear Sreeni,
  you can go on and write even a thesis here on why ARR should not be downgraded...but at the end of the say...all these ppl wanna say is that
  IR > ARR (that is true in the matter of age). "
  
  I think I've said my piece now. I've argued for a democratic, non-absolutist attitude which I've been wanting to do for a while. But I'm practical enough to know that although the world struggled to democracy after millenia of bloodshed, it is still an uphill battle everyday.
  
  
• From: Jag (@ 35.9.26.160) on: Thu Jul 31 22:36:46 EDT 2003
  
  I am more than convinced that IR is the second coming of Mozart. But hey that's my opinion.
  
  " So, do you propose totalitarian or monarchical forms of government? If you claim higher standards of taste than the public, then you have severed your connection with them and relinquished the right to comment on them. It is a convenient means of avoiding the responsibility of engaging with the public and is often used, I notice, by failures. The greatest geniuses mould the tastes of the audience - they don't treat it with scorn."
  
  First of all I don't claim to have higher tastes, but I can safely claim that I have a good ear for music. To appreciate most of his music you definitely need a higher level of musical intellect. Now don't tell me there is no such thing, there are courses which teach WCM/Indian Classical Music and those people are definitely more musically well learned than most janta you are talking about. By trying to appreciate something complex and beautiful am I trying to do something wrong? Have I even mentioned anywhere that I scorn other musicians?
  
  " The problem, once again, is that you regard your tastes as facts: IR is God, you are redeemed for realising this, the rest of us are damned for disagreeing. When will the likes of you realise that we live in a pluralistic world, where everyone must be allowed their personal likes and dislikes, their own lifestyles and religions? "
  
  It is sheer bad luck. Living in India and that too south India or at least being a south Indian, if we don't recognise talented people of our times, that is bad luck. I recognise IR as I have recognised MS Subbulakshmi, Balamuralikrishna, KJY, U Srinivas, Prasanna, Zakir Hussain, Maharajapuram Santhanam, TVG and so on. What is wrong with that?
  
  One thing I agree that I was at fault for saying that you should recognize Hey Ram's music. But I did not use the word "damned" even for you, forget about the "rest of you". I seem to have made a mistake asking you to recognize originality and creativity, sorry pal.
  
  This can go on forever, I don't even know what the heck we had been arguing on. Just that you respond as if I looted your house and left you naked on highway 89 wherever the hell that is.
  And you don't even have the decency to address me by my nom-de-plume, but called me "by the likes of you ", buddy I am as much part of the pluralistic world as you are. You have contradicted your statement by not recognising that I may have my own tastes.
  
  Bye
  
  
• From: Speaker (@ 203.126.142.232) on: Thu Jul 31 23:37:42 EDT 2003
  
  LordLabakDas, your service wanted. Each post running into page(s), but still nothing clear!!!
  
  
• From: Sreeni (@ 203.56.247.153) on: Fri Aug 1 00:06:57 EDT 2003
  
  "And you don't even have the decency to address me by my nom-de-plume, but called me "by the likes of you ", buddy I am as much part of the pluralistic world as you are. You have contradicted your statement by not recognising that I may have my own tastes. "
  
  I'm one person responding to an army out here, I'm unable to track individuals and their names - whether de plume or de real.I need a secretary.
  
  And how does neglecting to mention names amount to self-contradiction? Must speakers at secular meetings compulsorily remember the names of all the attendees?
  
  
• From: Sreeni (@ 203.56.247.153) on: Fri Aug 1 00:28:31 EDT 2003
  
  "LordLabakDas, your service wanted. Each post running into page(s), but still nothing clear!!! "
  
  Naturally not. Even reading posts takes time and energy, which you don't have.
  
  God, it's like talking in a storm. Everything you say is so distorted by the time it gets quoted back at you that you don't know which camp you belong to.
  
  For example, everyone has chosen to read my statement about the primacy of audience response as a blasphemy against art and classical music. What I actually say is that the "janta" and the classical audience have independent premises and goals. To sneer at the public's taste is elitist snobbism.
  
  
• From: Sreeni (@ 203.56.247.153) on: Fri Aug 1 01:08:48 EDT 2003
  
  "First of all I don't claim to have higher tastes, but I can safely claim that I have a good ear for music. To appreciate most of his music you definitely need a higher level of musical intellect. Now don't tell me there is no such thing, there are courses which teach WCM/Indian Classical Music and those people are definitely more musically well learned than most janta you are talking about. "
  
  In the first sentence you say you don't claim to have higher tastes, in the last you again sneer at the "janta". Talk about self-contradiction.
  
  Please don't swing your appreciation courses over our heads like a cudgel. I could argue that they are just a Pavlovian mechanism wherein you're trained to respond to specific signals and concepts. I could argue that they are purist and exclusionary in nature, having sprung from tradition. And so on.
  
  And when will classical fetishists realise that film music is not - repeat, not - classical music? Classical music is just one of the many, many tributaries that feed into the voracious maw of pop and film music. Do these courses also train you in jazz, folk, hymns, electronic, hip-hop, sound-design...ad infinitum?
  
  If they don't, if they actually teach you to regard other musics with disdain, you've no cause to assume authority over the rest of us.
  
  I reject your authoritarian contention that unless we all become musicians ourselves we are not fit to have our likes and dislikes. I will point to numerous musicians who've been intolerant of musics other than their own, how often they've let the narrowness of personal convictions blind them to changing currents in the wider world. Musicians are not necessarily the ultimate authority on everything musical, sometimes not even in their own field.
  
  
• From: Sreeni (@ 203.56.247.153) on: Fri Aug 1 02:32:28 EDT 2003
  
  "Have I even mentioned anywhere that I scorn other musicians? "
  
  Hello? There seems to be too much static going on here. I never said you scorn other musicians. What I was saying was that great musicians should strive to communicate with and mould the tastes of their audiences rather than scorn them and disappear into ivory towers of high taste.
  
  "It is sheer bad luck. Living in India and that too south India or at least being a south Indian, if we don't recognise talented people of our times, that is bad luck."
  
  I notice a note of powerful lament here. You appear crushed to know that there are people out there whose taste hierarchies don't feature IR at the top. Why? Would a Stravinsky-fan be devastated to know that there are people out there in the world who prefer Mozart, or IR? Such a fan might find it useful to engage with Mozart-fans if not with IR-fans, but surely he would not be pained by their tastes? Live and let live, man.
  
  "This can go on forever, I don't even know what the heck we had been arguing on."
  
  It is very simple. When I first stated that IR's albums might have to be judged by the reactions of the audience for which they were intended, people here went into a panic. All along they have been nourishing notions of their own superiority for liking IR while looking down on the "janta". By making the "janta" the final arbiters (and why not, since the albums were made to please them?), I've violated these notions and hurt their self-esteem. These folks are angered to be told that underneath our superficially different, contingently-formed tastes, we're all the same, we're all equally human.
  
  So let me spread peace. If believing you're superior to us is the crutch you need to get along, then alright, you're as gods because you continue to support IR and we're slaves, second-class citizens because we don't. When you walk past, we shall fall to the ground in religious awe, we shall dedicate our lives to your worship.
  
  Is that enough? Are you happy?
  
  
• From: rajasaranam (@ 210.214.128.58) on: Fri Aug 1 02:48:16 EDT 2003
  
  sreeni,
  well i understand frm all ur posts that ur a postmodernist who wud like to accomodate all cultures and all kinds of music in the name of democracy and pluralism.but look around to know that the form of music ur arguing for is called international music which takes up bits and pieces frm various forms of music to make it sound international. the constant attempt to create an international style rejecting pluralism is wat the MNC's need of this hour.post modernism attempts to revive the cultural/traditional aspects of a community in its original form while globalization tries to bring out a totalitarian music form to be saleable to everybody.
  now who is more democratic - i who say yeah i respect ur music but never try to corrupt my music or u who say ive got only one music and thats international. by ur own icons word" there will be no more hindustani or carnatic music only international music" - ARR.
  
  
• From: MADDY (@ 203.94.218.199) on: Fri Aug 1 03:32:50 EDT 2003
  
  hey rajasaranam ... where the heck did ARR give out such a statement... building up ur own stories????? then y wud he give albums like "Lagaan and Zubeida" having hindustani music in it...
  
  

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