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COPYING - IN TAMIL FILM HISTORY

Topic started by s.senthilkumar (@ 203.197.154.163) on Mon Jan 24 07:23:36 EST 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

i think "copying" is there for a long time in tamil film history.Here we discuss the tamil songs copied from others.

For a compilation of copied/inspired songs: http://copied.newtfmpage.com

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: ajlg (@ 151.201.36.243) on: Sun Jan 6 08:24:41 EST 2002
  
  OISG ,
  I agree with you on cho. On G.Amaran quote, yes it 100% true, even ir has also mentioned the same in few shows i have seen.
  
  also I understand your other points, however we need to see how a musician is made? like even you hear beethoven or bach or Thayagaraja's music but can you reproduce the music of beethoven in different a form?
  
  Musicians often train themselves by hearing more and more music, so it is natural for them to comeup with something close or similar.
  On an even scale, if you see gr,msv, kvm, ir, arr and many more have done plently of great things,
  there are few bugs like siripi who is no where in the scene today we cannot define the quality of tfm based on this few people.
  
  I feel this thread is gearing towards trasing tamil music as a whole as copied, let me tell how RDB got inspired from msv/tkr, the so called Shan's title music is nothing but the theme music of 1000'il oruvan done by msv/tkr long long time ago, there are more things taken from tamil in hindi and vice versa, sole purpose of doing this is musicians are amazed by the others compositions and they want to create something similar. ...some call this as an inspiration.
  
  
• From: MEMBER RAAJA MUSIC UNIVERSAL (@ 168.187.168.42) on: Sun Jan 6 10:39:54 EST 2002
  
  ARR COPIES LEFT RIGHT CENTRE FROM DR.ALBAN - HISHAM ABBAS - NASRAT FATEH ALI KHAN -
  
  
• From: O_IS_G (@ 217.17.235.2) on: Sun Jan 6 10:40:45 EST 2002
  
  That was a jewel in the crown.Can someone get me Shan's title music.May be the "Simon Wiesenthal" S Karthik can help.
  
  Western Classical does not allow one to fiddle with the greatmen's work.So the music you listen to, will depend on how good and traditional the Conductor is,who does marginal improvisations.(Occasionally you hear items like "Hooked to Classics" even by Royal Philharmonic.I find it childish akin to T-series CDs with "Jhankar Beats".)
  
  But here all and sundry can rape Thygaraja Kritis.There is scant respect for great works.You see less & less innovators like Prasana and more & more shallow lot.Mani sharma kills "Ragu Vamsa", Deva does his bit with "Manavylaka".Men like these do bulk of the movies and this turns the whole scene ugly.You start feeling that entire TFM is stupid.You see a Off-Colour IR,tired ARR on one side and a new lot with little to offer.Occasional brilliance like Malare Mounanma,Avarvar Vazhkayil,Vassegara are just drops in Sahara.Lets wait for some genuine Jenovah,Annakili and Roja to happen again.These men were honest,sincere and consistent.Occasional bouts of "inspiration" does not make them copycats.Lets get to know the source of these men's inspiration which must be GOOD and widen our horizons.
  
  
• From: ajlg (@ 151.201.36.243) on: Sun Jan 6 11:25:33 EST 2002
  
  Even IR has used a carantic song,
  MAMA udu machi udvu..was nothing but rara venu gopla..mani sharma being a great of ir, tried to follow his idol, thats all.
  Please dont decide a musicians capacity by using filmMusic as scale.
  
  Selecting the best song is very subjective, you might like one and i might like one. Basically doubting every musicians around beyond an extent is not acceptable. It kills music listening.
  
  
• From: hihi:-) (@ 128.111.113.76) on: Mon Jan 7 14:40:29 EST 2002
  
  Western Classical does not allow one to fiddle with the greatmen's work. But here all and sundry can rape Thygaraja Kritis.. i get a feeling that you have not listened to a variety of WCM; maybe you are used to the late 80s and 90s mass production of music (like the crappy - actually it's a strong word - karajan stuff) where one could hardly find a difference between slatkin and solonen (they are not composers, just conductors). there is a word very often used in WCM - interpretation. that is an euphemism for "fiddling with greatmen's work". anyways, listen to boston baroque chamber orchestra (i think i have got the name correct) and similar productions. please disregard all my ramblings - that's what they are :-))
  
  
• From: Mr. Observer (@ 64.105.35.163) on: Mon Jan 7 16:58:28 EST 2002
  
  ajlg (actually I know who you are), there is another Tamil song that Naushad Ali got inspired from ....'mErA pyAr bhi thoo hai' (SAthi) (remake of pAlum pazhamum) shows shades of 'nAn pEsa ninaippathellAm'.
  R. Sudharsanam's 'kaNNA karumai nirakkaNNa' and 'pooppOla pooppOla sirikkum' was copied in the Hindi version of the movie. Infact 'pooppOla..' became PBS's first song in Hindi (with Lata).
  
  Back to the topic, KVM (of all the people) copied 'meeti meeti bAthOn sE bachna zarA' from Hindi as 'konji konji pEsi mathi mayangum' (karunthEL kaNNAyiram). I am sure, KVM was forced to do so, given the fact that the movie was a Modern Theatres creation.
  
  G. Ramanathan's famous Charukesi number 'manmatha leelayai vendrAr uNdO' (which prompter vidhwans of those days to use this raaga more often) is set to the same metre as another charukesi song by Swathi ThirunAL , 'kripayA pAlayA sowrE'.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 208.61.227.242) on: Mon Jan 7 17:35:09 EST 2002
  
  Observer (or anyone else who has heard these two songs), I have meant to ask this for sometime..
  
  "akele hain chale aao" sung by Rafi AND Lata, solo, came in 1967, music by Kalyanji-anandji in the movie Raaz (and also won a filmfare or national award?)
  
  whereas.."naalai indha velai paarthu" from uyarndha manithan came a year later (checked the dates) with music scored by MSV..I find a lot of similiarity especially in the pallavi of these 2 songs..a strong case can be made for inspiration..
  
  the way both song starts, Lata starts off with "akele aaoo..." and stretches it to the higher octaves and PS does it similiar with "vaan pola.." the way she starts off the song and the notes are also very similar in places, although MSV has slightly(cleverly) modified the pallavi..just wanted to confirm this..
  
  
• From: O_IS_G (@ 193.188.97.152) on: Tue Jan 8 00:34:00 EST 2002
  
  I thought the music for palum pazamum (hindi) was by Ravi (Bombay).Certainly the the humming was inspired by the original tamil song.
  
  But if you listen to the stanzas you will find shades of MSV's Meenva Nanaban -Thangathil Mugameduthu (Particularly "intha Mana Rajjiyam Endrum Unakkagave ...)Meenava Nanban can a decade later.
  
  Sudharsanam was often accused of lifting.If the Kanna Karumai Nira .. was his original then ....hats off to Sriman Sudharsanam.
  
  On the WCM,yes there is plenty of crappy stuff floating around.But if you visit all the Bach and Mozart sites you get some good contacts to identify the right conductor.I have also mentioned about junk WCM,if you notice my posting.
  But there seems to be tremendous activity on WCM's revival( back to basics and tradition) across the globe.
  
  Another inspired work.. Chaudvi vi ka Channd and "Paavadia Daavaniyil (Nichiya Thamboolam)".Both are great songs.
  
  I also rememeber a Lata song "Jane Kya".MSV has used similar instruments and effect to create one of my favourite PS song "Thendralil AAdai Minna.. Andru Naan Kutralathil"
  
  
• From: jagan (@ 61.11.73.84) on: Tue Jan 8 02:48:46 EST 2002
  
  Ayitrathil orithiaymma nee by TMS and MD MSV is an inspiration of Azhheeb dasthahai e by Lata MD Shanker-Jaikishan
  
  
• From: Mr. Observer (@ 64.105.35.163) on: Tue Jan 8 04:20:37 EST 2002
  
  Everybody knows that Shankar-Jaikishen's 'sow sAl pehlE' was copied by Veda as 'manam ennum mEdaiyin meethu'. But there is another copy that exists, atleast for the first line, 'silai seyya kaigaL uNdu, thangam konjam thEvai',again by TMS and PS.
  Madan Mohan's composition for 'Jahan Ara' ,'aye sanam Aj yEh Qasm khAyE' (Talat Mahmood, Lata) was lifted by Shankar-Ganesh , note to note, as 'vAnavillin Ezhu vaNNa kAtchi andrO, kAthalO kOdi malarAm andrO' (SPB and PS).
  
  KVM's 'mayakkum mAlai pozhuthE nee pO pO' from Gulebagavali is certainly inspired by C. Ramachandra's 'jAg dard ishq jAg', both set to bagesri (this is not the reason for calling at an inspiration though). Interestingly enough, rest of the songs were scored by MSV-TKR.
  
  Other contributors, if a song in only an inspiration, please state so very cleary.
  
  
  
• From: Mr. Observer (@ 64.105.35.163) on: Tue Jan 8 04:30:10 EST 2002
  
  The first line in S.A. Rajkumar's 'Anandam Anandam...' is a copy of the Mandolin piece in 'aksar kOi ladki is hAl mein' in L-P's 'Bobby'. This piece comes immediately after the flurry of 'pehlE tum's and 'pehlE aap's.
  
  
• From: O_IS_G (@ 193.188.97.152) on: Tue Jan 8 07:25:35 EST 2002
  
  Vanvvillin .. (SG) is from Arthangal Aaiyram.There is a good SPB number "Kadolodu Nadhikkenna Kobam" in the same movie.SG has the BOBBY's famous piece in almost all their post- 1974 movies!
  
  I cannot figure out the original for the Neeya? Song "Unai Ethanai murai paarthalum Salippathillai".Is it a Dev Anand's Song which has lyrics which goes "Mang liya Hai"?
  
  No news from S Karthik? Mr.Observer someone can start a thread like ""This rare song" is SA Rajkumar's original .."".I often wonder whether SAR and Annu Malik have ever given any original stuff.
  
  
• From: ajlg (@ 151.201.224.112) on: Tue Jan 8 09:16:17 EST 2002
  
  Mr.Ob oops Observer , i also know who you are..:)
  continue continue...,btw:: can you check the sandam for pacha mala poove and katil oru singa kuttiyam, both by ir, both are just the same tune.
  especially we can join the lines dhori dhori...to katil oru singakutiyam...just an another observation.
  
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 208.61.227.242) on: Tue Jan 8 09:32:24 EST 2002
  
  Pachai malai poovu and kaatil oru singakuttiyaam has ZERO similiarity sandham-wise :-)
  at the MOST, these songs might have the same scales, but then IR has composed many songs in that scale :-)
  
  Observer, "akele hain chale aoo" paththi kettene, no opinions? :-)
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 208.61.227.242) on: Tue Jan 8 09:47:59 EST 2002
  
  I have sort of confirmed this in the ragas thread (with the help of IR (not ilayaraja:-) ), who is a regular contributor there).
  "innarul tharum annapoorani" in Aathma has been inspired from a carnatic composition "saarasamukhi sakala"..you can listenn to this sung by madurai mani iyer in the music india online site..the first line is close to being a note-by-note similiarity although the rest of the songs are different..
  
  I get the feeling now that a lot of the sandhams in TFM could have been inspired by CM compositions..since we already have the "kannam poochi yenada" sandham from "radha samedha krishna" and so on..
  
  this is an area, which if scrutinized well, could reveal more surprises :-)
  
  
• From: O_IS_G (@ 217.17.233.136) on: Tue Jan 8 10:55:20 EST 2002
  
  Just out of curiosity!
  
  Masaru Ponne Varuga (thevar Magan) and Bojanam Seyya by Bombay sisters in their "Nalangu or Kalyana Muhurtha Padalgal".It is since long i listened to the latter!
  
  I am expecting one more response.. "Same Meter!Same Scale!"
  
  Aanenna Pennena (Dharmadurai)charanams and Thholiyile Adavantha(chinnathambi) Charanams and
  Unna Ninaichen (aboorva Sahodarargal)!
  
  

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