Home   Forum   Wiki   Notes   Register   FAQ   Sitemap   About Us   Contact Us  

IR GETS LATHA MANKESHKAR AWARD !

Topic started by NagasubramaniaN (@ fw.baan.nl) on Fri Dec 4 01:26:45 EST 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

hi,
today's dinakaran has this info.
IR gets Lathamankeshkar award given by MP state govt.
http://www.dinakaran.com/daily/12041998/cinema/award.html
Any idea about this award & other persons who got this award ???
NagasubramaniaN

---

Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.222.2) on: Tue Apr 3 23:59:10 EDT 2001
  
  close italics
  
  
• From: observer (@ 144.92.164.198) on: Tue Apr 3 23:59:23 EDT 2001
  
  To me, comparison between a singer and a composer makes no sense. Its like comparing a player with a composer in WCM. Would anyone have the gall to compare Yitzak Perelman with Mozart, Glenn Gould with Beethoven, or Yehudi Menuhin with Bach and assert that they are more talented? It is better to leave such a person to himself rather than trying to convince him.
  
  The more creative art is clearly composition. Nobody can question that! If you choose to respect singing more than composing, that's your wish. To me, the award doesn't mean anything. If IR accepts it, it is indicative of his humility.
  
  
• From: hari (@ 129.116.226.162) on: Wed Apr 4 00:34:28 EDT 2001
  
  "As far as the statement ' LM a drop in the ocean called IR'. Thats absurd. LM has worked wonders with far too many other people. If IR was anywhere as talented as ( there is just no question of him being more talented than LM) he would have got a fraction of the popularity that she has. "
  
  The statement is indeed absurd and shallow...but,
  
  finally I do see ur point... u are yet another in that long list of people who directly equate POPULARITY = TALENT !!! I mean, the argument that --- if one is popular, then he HAS to be great, come on,... if A is more popular than B, then he/she has to be greater...yeah, all of them have told me... yeah A is very very popular, yeah he/she is great, yeah yeah yeah.....!!!
  
  is way way too shallow IMHO!
  
  This single statement of urs drowns all the good techie points that u scored... Not that I am bothered too much as to who is "better", (such a thing sounds totally absurd, what the goddamn hell is "better" between an artist and a composer???? Thats an absurdity IMHO)
  
  This mentality of (Popularity and Public Acclaim == Talent) can be said to be totally false ..yes, i believe this is one thing that CAN be inscribed in stone... history has volumes and volumes of such personalities who were not necessarily the most popular of people, nevertheless their true worth was discovered long after they were gone!
  
  Have a good day! NOM whatsoever!
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.222.2) on: Wed Apr 4 01:28:29 EDT 2001
  
  obeserver - you have laborated what I tried to say ( thayir saadham is better than T-shirt) :-)
  
  
• From: eden (@ 61.1.250.150) on: Wed Apr 4 05:31:43 EDT 2001
  
  Srinath,
  I started the 1000 stars thread and was privileged to compile that excel sheet. I think that thread has disappeared after a server crash. I'm e-mailing it to LV.
  
  
• From: LV (@ 203.199.130.95) on: Wed Apr 4 08:09:23 EDT 2001
  
  Dear friends,
  
  This is going to be my last message on this forum. From tomorrow, the netcafe of our college closes coz its time for submissions,vivas,exams.
  So I guess its more or less the end of the debate, as I've been the only one here on the LM side. But before I quit, I'll make a few final clarifications. You might not agree with them - fine - I've nothing to say.
  
  1) Maybe you people felt that my statement that 'IR is not as good as LM, as he has never become as popular' is unfair,in bad taste.
  But, I have reason to feel the same when someone said : 'IR is worth a trillion LMs'.Even this is like comparing curd rice to a T-shirt. Go to the beginning of this forum, and you see some of the stupidest comments passed against LM. I dont think I ever stooped so low.
  
  2)I dont think I would say 'Annu Mallick is better than IR as he is more popular than IR' (Considering the crap that HFM is today, it is quite understandable that someone as low as AM is becoming more popular than IR,though abominable. I really wish this times national award was given to IR and not to AM. My earlier posts mention it.)
  But if it comes to a person like LM, its true that popularity has some role to play.
  Why do we say that a song is great? Because good music lovers like it, and it becomes popular amongst them. So popularity does to some extent
  indicate talent, though its not the sole indication thereof. LM became popular among layman,maestro alike, literate and illiterate alike.
  
  3) Someone here said that a composer is above a singer. I dont fully agree. Though the basic tune/orchestartion is created by the MD, the ultimate execution lies in the hands of the singer. The nuances,the expression and the 'beauty spots' are all in the hands of the singer. No wonder IR used great singers like PS,SJ,SPB and many others. He wouldnt have been much without them. On the other hand LM has turned the songs of ordinary MDs like Laxmikant Pyarelal, Kalyanji Anandji, Rajesh Roshan and even Bappi Lahiri, to gold. If you dont agree, try listening to the cover versions of Lata's and Asha's songs by Anuradha Paudwal. She has resung songs of many great composers and made an unbearable mess of them. I even disliked Chitra's rendition of 'Raina beeti jaaye' and 'tere bina zindagi se koi ...' which are two Lata greats. They are available on a 'sony' cassette.
  
  4) If ever I have tried to create an impression that Lata is 'better' than IR, I'm sorry. Such a comparison cannot exist. However I do see nothing bad in this award at all. IR himself accepted it, and he is not known to be very humble. In fact, even that is not his fault. People who create such irridiscent careers from abject poverty are bound to be like that.
  Maybe I didnt put my points clearly enough. I'll do so now: All I meant was that there are other music directors who are as good as IR. This does not mean that IR is any less a legend. Take Chitragupt for example: Listen to 'Deewane tum deewane hum' and see how he played around with the word 'deewana'. Listen to the foll. songs of his if you get a chance or have the inclination:
  (1)Aaja re mere pyaar ke rahi
  (2)Ye parbaton ke daayare
  (3)Hai re tere chanchal nainwa
  (4)Aaj ki raat naya chaand leke aayi hai
  (5)Kaare kaare baadra
  (6)Chali chali re patang meri
  (7)Dekho mausam kya bahaar hai
  (8)Chhedo naa meri zulfen
  (9)Tumhi ho maata pita tumhi ho .... and many more
  
  If you listen to Anil Biswas,C Ramchandra, Jaidev,Roshan, MM, SJ, Salil C, RDB ,SDB and even OP Nayyar and Hemant Kumar you'll see their worth. As far as Hemant Kumar, I'll suggest you the foll. site: http://members.fortunecity.com/dahej/. Download the mp3 file of 'Vande Maataram' from this page. I'm sure you'll enjoy it. Also go to
  http://www.indianscreen.com or http://www.musicurry.com
  Inspite of all this, if you feel IR is the best- fine- you are entitled to your own opinion. But thats all subjective. Its also subjective as to which one out of LM,Asha or PS is the best. But there arent dozens of such singers definitely.
  
  5)Another thing: IR has done great work. But there are films where he has done a bad or only a fair job. 'Hey raam' and 'Sadma' are some of those. Of course, thats my opinion. You may think they were musical marvels.
  
  6)One more thing: its a slight digression. I awe Lata the singer, but less than Lata the person. Shes become a symbol of national integration because shes done a lot for the country. Shes buiding a huge hospital in Pune in memory of her dad. She's gone on record in providing every kinda help to the army, and to social work organisations. Moreover she withdrew her name from the Filmfare,Screen and national awards after she realised she was the only one who would be given those. Even when OPN spoke about her in bad taste, she has kept on praising him as a composer. Shes the picture of utmost dignity.
  
  7)Please go through all the posts right from the beginning of this thread. You'll find more stuff.
  
  8) And dear Srinath: (and to others also)
  You seem to regard MSV and ARR as much as IR. (I'm sorry if I'm mistaken,but there are so many poeple out here arguing from the opposite side as I am, that I find it difficult to recollect who said what).
  Is it by any chance because they are also south indians like us? Is it that you dont want to appreciate other MDs JUST because they are from the North? Someone here said, that he feels IR is the greatest because he's heard enough of IR. So he doesnt need to hear someone else's music. Thats absurd. You cant say that Pele is better than Maradona, if you've not seen a single match where Maradona played well.
  
  9) Finally, please dont bother to post a reply to this message, as I won't be on the net for a long time. Not when I've got heavy Unix, and Image Processing, and Compiler/Decompiler orals/submission/exams pending. And Bombay Uni exams are no cakewalk !
  Anyway I guessed there are quite a few Computer engineers here - I saw several references to s/w development (!)
  
  But twas fun posting messages here - bye !!!!!!!
  Maybe I'll see your further responses ( there might not be many) in the forum archives in May/June!
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ 66.26.230.33) on: Wed Apr 4 08:34:17 EDT 2001
  
  Well,well - you people are trying to overwhelm me completely. But in vain, so sorry. But, I'm amused - really amused.
  
  If I were to call you stupid, you would probably parrot my statements, going by your track record
  
  Well suresh,srinath: I meant that Shankar Jaikishan,Salil C, Roshan, C Ramchandra, MM, RDB, SDB, Chitragupt,
  MSV, ARR are EACH as good as IR is. They have got as much recognition as IR has got, and will continue to be honoured by stalwart and layman alike, whether you like it or not.
  
  Whether you like it or not, IR is going to considered superior by sstalwart and layman alike. Oh, BTW, not all the stalwarts live in Bombay, so you may want to step out a bit to get a truer picture.
  
  Of course, most people like you haven't heard somebody else's music at all, so you can continue to be as ignorant as you still are. If in any case, you want to see a list of the things IR has copied, you may go to the 'Copied songs section' of this page.
  
  If you want to "see" at all, go and get your eyes checked. It took a 2 year discussion to discover about 6-7 copies AND inspirations from over 4000 songs of IR. You are too dumb to be calling us ignorant. but you are better at one thing - you prove yourself a greater fool than we could ever hope to make out of you. If we haven't heard someone's music, we wouldn't dare go into a forum (for example, an Oriya Music Forum) to trash their MDs without know squat about them. Eden's list would be of much help to you.
  
  AruLaracan,
  Please show me at least one Salil C song that was a direct lift from something.
  
  You got your wish courtesy, MS.
  
  Another thing: an entire list of Madan Mohan songs has been copied down South. This list includes 'rasme Ulfat','Naina barse..','Woh chup rahen to ... ', 'Haal-e-dil yun unhe...','Yun hasraton ke dagh...'. Even RDB's songs like 'Raina beeti jaaye..','Meri zindagi hai kya...','Naam gum jaayega...' etc have been copied by MDs from TFM (telugu and tamil !!!)
  
  This is where you prove that you are an NSCM. You don't even know who copied these and you made a blanket statement now turning the discussion to NI vs SI. I seriously think you are becoming unwelcome here.
  
  e-hari
  I'm amused by your RDB bashing. I dont like the music of Sholay. But 'Piyaa tu ab to..','Aao na gale lagalo naa...' ,'Mujhe taare la ke do...',
  etc show RDB's tremendous ingenuity as a cabaret-composer. Dont forget the songs of Teesri Manzil.
  IR cannot even dream of composing something anywhere close to this, so forget sth. better.
  At the same time, RDB has given beautiful ghazals in Ijaazat, and Dil Padosi Hai. His experiments with Boy George are lovely. His use of classical in several songs shows his ability in the filed of light classical too. He himself was an expert sarod player. And dont forget the songs of Love STory 1942. So the statement : 'He was at his peak for only 4 years' is a sweet and convenient misconception, since you are so desperately struggling to prove your point. And listen to RDb's first song 'Ghar aaja ghir aaye' before starting your 'bla-bla'.
  
  You listed a mere fraction of IR's songs to "prove" your credentials and you even managed to get most of them wrong. Slamming RDB in TFM DF is wrong, I agree. But you are slamming IR in TFM DF...and that too without having the faintest idea of his accomplishments! I'll leave it to others to provide the statistics, but you are asking for serious trouble. You are violating the principles of TFM DF in so many ways that soon you'll be regarded yet another transient that vents its frustrations here. It'll be like vomit on the road that every one walks around.
  
  And guys, there is a long IR list. But other Mds have their own lists as well, which are as good.
  
  This is not even the discussion here. If you want to talk about IR, please listen to atleast some of his songs (and try to get them right, this time). If you want to blatantly label IR, please first listen to the 1000 songs list. If you want to bash IR, you had better listen to all of IR. We are not talking about the other MDs' lists here (which IMO are still nowhere near IR's). This is a TFM DF thread discussing whether it is justifiable to give IR an LM award. I need to keep repeating this point so many times because you seem to lose focus of the argument in every other sentence that you write.
  
  LM has all the right to feel that Salil C is the best. Asha feel same about RDB. This opinion is totally subjective. That IR is the best, is your own personal opinion. Not any 'golden rule' or any 'inscription on stone'.
  IR himself has accepted the award. IN fact, thats where it has all ended. So dear IR guradians, this is all in vain. But if you are so frustrated, you may continue and write page and pages.
  
  There you go again, parroting my phrases. I have ALREADY told you that it doesn't matter if IR considers it an honor. WE DON'T? Do I need to say this in some other language for you to understand? I don't know Marathi, but I could try it in hindi if you want!
  
  But IR is but a drop in the ocean of music, along with several others who are on par with him, some beyond him.
  As far as the statement ' LM a drop in the ocean called IR'. Thats absurd. LM has worked wonders with far too many other people. If IR was anywhere as talented as ( there is just no question of him being more talented than LM) he would have got a fraction of the popularity that she has.
  
  IR is far more talented than LM to be receiving an award in her name. His accomplishments are far more varied and of greater substance than LM's. LM's claim to fame is aided by a physical (her vocal chords) gift of nature. IR's achievements are entirely human (maybe even flawed at times, which makes them that much more valuable!). LM has lived up to the potential afforded by her voice and her input (in terms of expression) has even enhanced the effect of her natural gift. IR is the ultimate creator - "Pudhu Ragam Padaippadhaale, Naanum Iraivane". LM has done nothing that can be reasonably compared with IR's creations. But I am exhilarated that you are finally saying something that has some relevance to the discussion!
  
  One more thing: I know you are pretty perturbed that ARR has made it so big down south as well as in the north, and that too in so short a while. I know, I know its pretty distressing when other people are being given more important than your favourite artist. But I would advise you too listen to the mediocre music of 'Hey Raam' before continuing.
  
  Oooops! Looks like I spoke too soon! Just as RDB (however inferior he may be to IR) cannot be brought into this discussion, ARR is out of bounds too. It is a pathetic attempt because you have nothing else of substance to discuss here. The next time you deviate from the topic, I think the admin should step in and declare the thread closed. If you were the least bit reasonable, you would announce the closure of discussion yourself if you believe you have nothing else to add. As for the "mediocre" music of "Hey! Ram". Please read my statements above where I've mentioned certain informal guidelines to critiquing IR. Otherwise, please listen to "Dil Deewana" from Maine Pyar Kiya ('89-'90, I think) to get a handle on how long it has been since Lata started faltering.
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ 66.26.230.33) on: Wed Apr 4 08:45:45 EDT 2001
  
  If you were the least bit reasonable, you would announce the closure of discussion yourself if you believe you have nothing else to add.
  
  I eat humble pie! For whatever reason, LV declares the discussion closed. I think it's only fair enough to disregard the other indiscrete statements in his last post. Thanks, everybody!
  
  

---

List all pages of this thread

Post comments