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IR or ARR

Topic started by M.Anand (@ ihproxy1.proxy.lucent.com) on Tue Jan 18 01:03:04 EST 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

hi all, I am Anand from bangalore and a new visitor to the tfm page. I am a great fan of both ARR and IR. I browsed through all the earlier threads on ARR and IR. It seems to me that there are quite a few anti ARRs out here.

Let me tell you something about IRs music. IRs music became popular and sounded different because he tried to bring in a westernization of Carnatic ragas in his songs. Even a dappanguthu was in Lathaangi or sivaranjani. That actually made the difference. Otherwise he is no great MD. One might argue that such a westernization or incorporation of a carnatic raga in a dappanguthu or jazz is something that demands great applause. But IR doesn't deserve that because, if u say u are tuning a song in a particular raagam, you have to bring out the nuances, the laya and bhaava of the raagam in to the song. Just traversing the swaras in the raagam here and there does not mean that u have tuned a song in that raagam. Ilayaraaja has done just that, a mere traversal through the swaras. In many places, there were apaswaras also. ARR has tuned very few songs based on Carnatic ragas but they were classics. For example Mettu podu in Anjali is a beautiful song in Ananda Bhairavi. He has brought out every nuance of the raagam in that song. Minsaara Kanna in padaiyappa is an excellent piece in vasantha. En mel vizhunda mazhai tuliye is again a beautiful piece in kaapi. A real mix of the east and west. That is what u call fusion. Ilayaraaja boasts of having composed songs in rare raagas like chala nattai, kanakangi etc. For example pani vizhum malar vanam in chala nattai is again a pure note traversal. There was no attempt to bring out the nuances in the raaga. So IR knew how to make songs sound good but ARR gives a fine polish to each and every one of his songs. IR composed music for 700 odd films. Hey Ram is his 785th film. Considering 7 songs per movie, he has tuned almost 5500 songs. Huge number indeed but hardly 5% of those songs are listenable others are 100% pure junk. But 99.9% of ARRs songs are listenable and they are also good numbers. What do you say about this?

Regards,
Anand

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: sunder (@ 203.197.135.212) on: Sat Oct 14 11:17:40 EDT 2000
  
  No no ARR has already copied CHINNAKKANAN song fromKAVIKUIL earlier itself .This is repeated copying. Hope IR has last laugh.
  Muscat Sunder.
  
  
• From: thavaraja sundhar sundram (@ 195.96.168.26) on: Sat Oct 14 12:34:24 EDT 2000
  
  dey thambi anand,you should know the difference between what is copying and what is INTELLIGENT UTILIZATION,,,open your eyes and clean your ears,,thambi,bye
  
  
• From: thavaraja sundhar sundram (@ 195.96.168.26) on: Sat Oct 14 12:34:48 EDT 2000
  
  dey thambi anand,you should know the difference between what is copying and what is INTELLIGENT UTILIZATION,,,open your eyes and clean your ears,,thambi,bye!!!
  
  
• From: thavaraja sundhar sundram (@ 195.96.168.26) on: Sat Oct 14 12:38:36 EDT 2000
  
  dey thambi anand,you should know the difference between what is copying and what is INTELLIGENT UTILIZATION,,,open your eyes and clean your ears,,thambi,bye!!!
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.227) on: Mon Oct 16 12:55:38 EDT 2000
  
  Hi Guys Great news for those interested in attaining Piravi Payan
  
  The term "piravi payan"(PP) is used to refer to some kind of spiritual realization.I was not aware till Amalraj said that PP can be attained by listening to IR's music.
  
  So guys,anyone interested in attaining Piravi payan just totally submit yourself to IR's music. (pls refer to amalraj's posting below).
  
  As stated in the posting below,for starters you can try "vaarthai thavari vittai"(VTV) or "nallathor veenai"(NV) especially if you concentrate on Bhavatharani's voice in the NV song you can very quickly attain it.I'm going to try it twice before going to bed and twice first thing in the morning.
  
  Also please note that IR's music which you think are ordinary is because he hasn't been challenged enough.So that is the only thing preventing his creative flow.
  
  Trend
  
  From: amalraj (@ 203.199.224.34) on: Sat Oct 14 10:53:56 EDT 2000
  
  
  its getting really bad,i don't know whether to feel sad about some of them who didn't know what IR music is about. all i can say is they didnt attain their piravi payan. i think all the IR fans should take a decision;not responding to such comments when we hear "vaarthai thavari vittai" or "nallathor veenai" our emotions roll down simultaneaously nobody needs to tell us whether
  these are good or bad we know we are true to ourselves nobody can understand our total submission to his music when some of his songs are ordinary we know that the situation is not challenging .so every IR fan must not indulge themselves in responding to such comments.
  
  
• From: Dorai (@ 216.217.47.130) on: Mon Oct 16 13:26:00 EDT 2000
  
  Amalraj,
  This is a Tamil Film Music discussion forum and not a "Illayaraja's Rasigar Mandram". I just want to reiterate the fact that we need to critically analyse a Music Director's work no matter whether it is IR, ARR etc etc. The moment we stop doing that then we become biased and make this forum as a kind of "Rasigar Mandram" which praises any and all kind of work by an MD as great and the best.
  
  I am not trying to undermine IR's creativity/genius, but being critical of his shortcomings off late. If you suggest the IR fans not to respond to criticisms then you are turning deaf ears to others feelings/opinions which is not healthy for IR's future as well. IR will be compacent to come up with ordinary stuff and still people (like you) would be praising it as "Ahha...Ohoh...".
  
  There seems to be a pattern of it from IR also. Even Rajinikath has said openly that it is very diffucult now a days to get from IR what the director wants. Thats why he has stayed away from IR.
  
  
• From: Venki (@ 12.35.64.19) on: Mon Oct 16 13:38:42 EDT 2000
  
  Dorai
  Did Rajini really tell that. I thought Rajini was trying to keep up his popularity by joining ARR. Can anybody say that Rajini got the best out of ARR in Muthu and Padayappa. Rajini is a good business man!
  
  
• From: Dorai (@ 216.217.47.130) on: Mon Oct 16 13:46:29 EDT 2000
  
  Venki,
  Rajini himself said that to IR's brother "Gangai Amaran" when Gangai Amaran suggested Rajini to use IR for his film "Arunachalam". IR has composed songs in his Private Album (not sure of the name) of the "Arunachalam" (the god) and Rajini was inspired by it to name his new movie as "Arunachalam". In fact, he directed deva to use some of the Slogams from this album in the song "Athada...Ithanda...", like "Om Arunachala Maheswara...".
  
  Rajini told Gangai Amaran about IR's attitude problem and his unwillingness to use IR for the film even though he still admired IR's music.
  
  
• From: Venki (@ 12.35.64.19) on: Mon Oct 16 14:51:23 EDT 2000
  
  Dorai
  
  If you are speaking about the attitude of IR, then please visit the following link. Illayaraja have always been a genius.
  
  http://www.raajangahm.com/news.html
  
  
  Venki
  
  
• From: Dorai (@ 216.217.47.130) on: Mon Oct 16 14:58:36 EDT 2000
  
  Venki,
  I have seen tis site before. Its a good site, but the public perception of IR's attitude is different than the views expressed in the above site.
  
  
• From: dorai (@ 216.217.47.130) on: Mon Oct 16 15:16:50 EDT 2000
  
  this ==tis
  
  
• From: eden (@ 61.1.250.230) on: Mon Oct 16 23:24:20 EDT 2000
  
  but the public perception of IR's attitude is different That's an interesting comment Dorai, where from you got this observation? Is there some official agency that has conducted some kind of opinion poll to arrive at?:-))NOM!
  
  
• From: eldred (@ 203.199.224.51) on: Tue Oct 17 09:36:26 EDT 2000
  
  dorai,
  
  it seems Trend likes bharathy songs,why dont you have a chat with him and first both of you decide whether the songs are good are not,before posting further.
  
  
• From: Gyani (@ 209.43.53.166) on: Tue Oct 17 11:45:51 EDT 2000
  
  hey Dorai,
  
  Try to curtail your views I see you in different forums try to pick up arguments for nothing. Guys ignore his views, he is trying to create unwanted confusion.
  
  
• From: Dorai (@ 216.217.47.130) on: Wed Oct 18 09:52:36 EDT 2000
  
  Eden,
  "Oru Pannai Sothuku Oru Soru Patham". Going by that, Illayaraja's best friend BR was the first one to turn away from him followed by KB, MR and a who lot of others including Rajini. Even KS Ravikumar responded to a question "Why he did not use IR when kamal likes IR" he responded as "Its not only important whether Kamal likes IR but also everyone else in his team should like to work with IR". We need not take a survey/opinion poll to determine the public opinion.
  
  This does not undermine his talent directly but in the long run he his music has started detoriating just because he does not work with good MDs who have given valuable inputs to his compositions in the past (whether one wants to accept it or not).
  
  Note : Don't start arguing about how well BR, KB, MR and others performed after turning away from IR. The fact is no one performed well including IR after the seperation.
  
  
• From: Dorai (@ 216.217.47.130) on: Wed Oct 18 09:57:30 EDT 2000
  
  Gyani,
  If you want to discus about your views against mine on a point by point basis I am open for it. Please do not give a generalised statement like this just because you cannot respond in an objective manner.
  
  I am not here to create unwanted confusion but just to express my feelings genuinly. I have been saying very clearly that IR is the best composer ever TFM has produced. That does not mean we should exaggerate his ordinary work as extraordinary. I am being OBJECTIVE and NOT SUBJECTIVE.
  
  
• From: Dorai (@ 216.217.47.130) on: Wed Oct 18 09:59:40 EDT 2000
  
  Eldred,
  It does not matter whether Trend likes Bharathy songs are not. I too like it, but the songs are very ordinary and does not deserve the exaggerations you guys here are coming up with.
  
  
• From: RameshG (@ 24.24.223.32) on: Wed Oct 18 10:34:26 EDT 2000
  
  'Dorai'yae Solitaru enimai Bharathy Songa Pughazhndhu Yarum Ezhuthatheengoo.
  
  
• From: Krishna (@ 192.135.244.69) on: Wed Oct 18 11:03:05 EDT 2000
  
  Dorai,
  Why did people go behind IR when MSV was giving
  good music. Is it because of MSV's attitude??
  I don't think so, IR brought new trends in to TFM
  and people liked it and all these so called
  directors & actors went behind him, the same thing
  repeated when ARR entered TFM. One day ARR will
  be replaced by someone say x and people will go
  with x, will you blame ARR's attitude at that
  time? don't say it will not happen.
  
  How come Rajini didn't aware of IR's attitude till
  he made Veera with IR(1994)??. It's only after
  this time he seems to have found fault on IR's
  attitude.
  
  

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