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Great Impact of ARR on Indian contemporary Music and IsaiGnani

Topic started by The Fan (@ spider-we053.proxy.aol.com) on Thu Nov 12 02:16:07 EST 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

By now we must appreciate the positive qualities of ARR's musical genre or style and interpretations. ARR has single handendly made film music and that too, Tamil film music one of the most favorite discussion topics anywhere. He reengineered or turned around the concept of film music in India and made it a pop culture. Though there is something left to be desired in his creativity, he has forever changed the landscape of Indian film music. Taking it to a different platform, he has escaped comparisons and stands at the heap of a new generation of musical presentation and thought. I feel glad that ARR happened at the right time to Indian films. Otherwise look what might have happened to Isaignani, who probably would've lost the inspiration to stay around. ARR's has woken up IR from his classical mode and made IR change mode to a trendy style, eg: KM and MVU, each filmy score of IR getting more experimental and in tune with current taste for music. In other words, I personally thank ARR for being the EYES AND EARS OF IR. New rhythms, extremely different melodic structures. etc.. In addition, ARR is gaining on to be the next icon of music in Indian film music, maybe not in Tamil film music, however. This is what we need. New persectives, a 360 degree difference in styles. In this thread, it will be beneficial to talk about how ARR brought in new things that made us wonder why didn't our other composers attempt this, so easy, so out there, why didn't they. And,difficult innovations that challenged even IR. This will discussion should be purely to discuss the impact of ARR's contributions and his impact on IR's creative styles.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: nTv (@ inet20.us.oracle.com) on: Wed Nov 18 17:34:42 EST 1998
  
  I feel that the influence of Sat TV's has more to do with a common man understanding musical jargons than ARR taking these to them. If you consider the time when he entered the market, channels like MTV ans Start were already popular with the urban folks, especially in the youth circle. That would have helped them to immediately identify ARR's songs with a particular style. I would say that he was clever enough reap the benefits of this awareness.
  
  Talking of austerity, refraining from public interaction should be no matter at all! I agree ARR expresses openly his humbleness. Also agree that IR was not all media friendly. ( Man.. is this getting to be another round of comparisions?!! ;-)). But, I wouldn't agree that IR maintained a kinda superior image portrayed around him. If you read an interview I believe published in '89, you would understand that he never had such intentions. In fact, I would say that it is the producers and the directors who badly needed his call-sheet that went to the extent of portraying him as anything that THEY THOUGHT would please him. Whether it really did or not.. nobody knows!
  
  But, he probably influenced the way the new crop of MDs behave. It's indeed a welcome change!!
  
  
• From: Ravi (@ wrath.cs.umass.edu) on: Wed Nov 18 17:45:53 EST 1998
  
  Pradeep: I am not sure whether you are talking out of any personal experience. AFAIK IR never claimed that he is a genius or any such thing. He too attributed everything to the grace of God. Nowadays ARR remains as inaccessible to the common man as IR was - this after listening to experience of some of my friends and other DFers trying to meet ARR.
  hmmm.. You have drawn me into a comparision of ARR and IR. :-). Congrats, this is something no one has managed on the DF before. ;-).
  
  The greater awarness among the people... this is arguably a result of the greater exposure our people have to other kinds of music nowadays.. and this coincided with ARR's entry. I don't think ARR influenced the growth of the satellite TV industry in anyway.
  
  Pradeep.. I like your non-defensive attitude while sticking up for ARR. Most ARR supporters when they enter the DF are put-off the pro IR rhetoric here and start sort of on the backfoot. Keep your spirits up in face of future attacks. :-).
  
  
  
• From: Ravi (@ wrath.cs.umass.edu) on: Wed Nov 18 17:52:31 EST 1998
  
  Pradeep: I agree with your earlier view that ARR appears to pay equal attention to all his songs. But how many others do it evne today? I want to know what others think about that. Has the average quality of songs in a movie gone up after ARR's entry? That could be one of his biggest contributions if true.
  
  
• From: nTv (@ inet20.us.oracle.com) on: Wed Nov 18 18:20:19 EST 1998
  
  Ravi,
  
  If you responded to my post, I said Sat TVs had already popularised the different music forms, and ARR happened to enter around this time, and used the awareness to his benefit. I never meant he helped Sat TVs grow.
  
  
• From: Ravi (@ wrath.cs.umass.edu) on: Wed Nov 18 18:28:13 EST 1998
  
  nTv: I was responding to Pradeep. When I started typing my repsonse your post hadn't yet appeared. :-). Actually our views happen to coincide a lot on this issue. :-).
  
  
• From: SR Kaushik (@ elroy.cs.wisc.edu) on: Wed Nov 18 18:58:17 EST 1998
  
  Ravi: Although its not ARR's fault, the quality of TFM has taken a nose dive after his entry. Deva and Sirpi dominate the scene today and its unfortunate to see TFM consumed with theor mediocrity.
  
  
• From: Ravi (@ wrath.cs.umass.edu) on: Wed Nov 18 19:30:13 EST 1998
  
  SRK: I am not talking about the absolute quality of the songs. :-). That is another matter altogether. In the past there used to be movies in which there were a couple of great songs and the rest not so carefully crafted. For e.g. vaikaasi poranthaachchu. :-). This might be due to the time pressure on the MDs. But with ARR showing the way, are more MDs willing to put their foot down and say that they are not going to let an album come out till they are happy with all the songs in it?
  
  
• From: Pradeep Ananth (@ slip129-37-158-232.on.ca.ibm.net) on: Wed Nov 18 19:47:24 EST 1998
  
  Ravi,
  U are bang on target. I think this concentration on every piece of song in an album is a hallmark of ARR. Die-hard IR fans do u think that in the IR era this attitude existed? As Nandhu had earlier pointed out, IR gave one of those Dappa songs in every movie of his.
  Nirupama: Dont u think that was an aspect of "professionalism" introduced by ARR into TFM?
  Now IR seems to be more careful in this aspect as well. KM is a good example to cite this influence on IR(I can see people asking "what about Mouna ragam, Agni Natchathiram etc.?"But those came more out of the director's insistence on quality songs than IR having a say. The director gave a lot of leeway for IR to take his time and give "quality" stuff. But in the case of ARR he self-imposes this requirement.Comments???
  
  
• From: N.C.Ramakrishna (@ spider-wn064.proxy.aol.com) on: Wed Nov 18 21:16:48 EST 1998
  
  Ravi
  
  I think after all these postings, it is better to change the thread as
  
  Great Impact of ARR and IR on Indian contemporary music.
  
  rather than
  
  Great Impact of ARR on Indian contemporary Music and IsaiGnani.
  
  Because most of the discussions are again IR to ARR towards Indian contemporary Music.
  
  
  
• From: Krishna (@ 117.new-york-08.ny.dial-access.att.net) on: Wed Nov 18 22:02:20 EST 1998
  
  I have to disagree on the revision of history here. This is the thing that bugs me...people are ready to lie to their teeth/ or so totally misinformed to attribute stuff to ARR that is not true.
  
  Lets take the posting that it was ARR who brought music to common people...
  
  Let me list IR's
  
  Machana patrtheengala
  Anne Anne
  Cholam Vedhakaiyle
  oram po
  enna pattu venum .... to
  the latest songs in "Sendhooram"
  
  raja has done as many songs for the commoner as he has for the classics, the western music lovers to those who love fusion. any category, any innovation that you guys have claimed so far raja has done it before. The resaon you guys dont attribute to raja is that he does not stick just to one thing as others do..he keeps experimenting has such variety that you guys forget.
  
  Lets look at the statement that Raja does not pay attention to all the songs in an album...that's a bogus claim too...
  
  let me lsit the movies
  
  annakili, badrakali, Kavikuyil, Chittukuruvi, Laksmi, 16 vayadhinile, Kizhake Pogum rail, Nizhalgal, panner pushpangal, nenjathi killadhe, Johnny, vaidegi kathirundhal, payanangal mudivadhillai, enga oooru pattukaran, satya, shaenbagame shaenbagame,...to veera, mahandahi, athma, uzhaipali, eejaman, devar magan, avatharam, siraichalai, guru, annan, dharma, manam virumbudhe unnai, punniyavathi, rajakumaran, oru oorile oru rajakumari....Many many directors were famous because of Raja not the other way around..MR before Mouna Ragam was not as popular as IR...I can list atleast 4 or 5 times more movies than what ARR has done where Raja has excelled. I'll throw this challenge out to you on this...see if you have seen anyone has the same variety Raja displays within an album....
  
  about Ir acting like God...IR has been always great to common people..the only people who he stood up to were those who tried to use their arrogance with him...like GV, Jayalaitha, KB, BR etc.. Infact, i admire him for that...
  
  And after falsely attributing all these on ARR and denigrating Ir, these same DFers call this forum a IR fandom...jees....
  
  (Ir fans...dont shy away because people call this place a Ir fandom. Lets do what is just)
  
  
• From: Raj (@ pdxss902.pdx.intel.com) on: Wed Nov 18 23:13:10 EST 1998
  
  I agree to some points raised here. ARR does give many quality songs and spends time perfecting the songs. But most of Pradeep's and few others postings seem to indicate that he always gives quality songs and is not all influenced by any other factor. For me, professional would mean same output without too much of factors influencing the output. How many songs of ARR are great in Vandi cholai chinnarasu, Pavithra, Love birds, Mr.Romeo and few other films. Isn't it true that he is also influenced a lot by directors, stories, etc? How is he professional and not IR? May be you feel for the same case scenario ARR gives higher quality than IR. That is purely subjective and I don't want to get there. I feel that both IR and ARR and for that matter most of MDs need something to inspire them to give great music. Their output level can be tuned by external factors. Tell me
  for how many uninspiring and unknown directors ARR has composed music and given oustanding songs. My intent is not for anyone to come up with a list and some else to follow up with an IR list. It is just to show that both IR and ARR are vulnerable to many factors. So to claim one is greater and other should learn from him is ridiculous. Infact ARR once said in an interview that some directors feel that his half baked tunes are okay and so he does not spend more time on them once the director is satisfied.
  
  And to all those who claim that TFM page is IR fan club, I would like to say that most of us do not know fellow DFers in person and it is not like everyone gangs up to bask ARR and others. All DFers have individual opinions and should be respected. Most of ARR supporters come, say something and expect everyone else to agree. If two or more disagree, then that's it. They will scream that this is IR madam, IR club and just walk off. Do you guys really expect all IR fans
  to appoint one spokesman who alone should write and go one on one with ARR gang. This DF is open for all and segregating into groups is the last thing anyone wants. If ARR supporter treats every IR fan as fanatic and fantacizes that everyone is trying to finish him off, what can we do about it.
  Just because Srinath or Krishna writes about IR, does it mean I should not post my views. Just because 3 ofus share the opinion, does it mean an
  ARR fan cannot write anything because 3 is a gang.
  If that is the case, no ARR fan will ever be able to post anything. However, I do not think the solution is for all IR fans to sit and watch if one of them has posted. I wish all ARR fans just understand that it is not that IR fans want to kill them and understand that each posting represents the views of a particular individual.
  Many have posted that IR songs are junk, he is gone. I treat those as their personal views and hold no grudge against them.
  
  Allthese are my personal opinion.
  
  
• From: kiruba (@ surfec011.sybase.com) on: Thu Nov 19 01:21:36 EST 1998
  
  I think Pradeep is just a little thrilled at the distilled clear music of ARR. Pradeep, if you frequent rec.audio.highend and audiophile websites you will understand the LP(records) are still around and actually making a comeback. This is to bring to your attention digital format is not necessarily the best format for recording/reproducing music. I too advocate the use of DAT/digital medium mainly because it is cost-effective for people like us (poor third world country). We cannot produce hiss/noise free CDs with the analog equipment we can afford.
  
  So nobody who is seriously into music is going to be impressed by the Macs ARR uses. Ofcourse, we have to give him credit for waking TFM to the bad quality CDs/tapes they were churning out. Here, I mean the quality of recording.
  
  I am now listening to IR tapes (kadalorak Kavithaigal etc) and I am happy with the recording/mixing.
  
  IR uses more instruments than ARR. Actually, IRs music gets better with better audio systems. So give it a serious listen and then you can get back to ARR's 'layered music'. Okay, this is another issue I have to get clarified. Whats the big deal with recording everything separately and doing cut-and-paste all day long ? It looks like a trial and error approach. Go by the output man. IR could figure things out in his brain and then goes for recording the whole shebang. For eg. the guy who invented the electric motor (Tesla ?) itseems was able to simulate the wear and tear in his brain. Nowadays we will use computers for simulating stuff like this. So dont you think Tesla was smarter ??
  
  You see most of my tamil CDs with me now are ARRs. I do like his music. I think you are appreciating him for the wrong reasons and underestimating IRs talents/skills.
  
  I have noticed one thing common among us Indian people. We have a tough time understanding the difference betweeen knowledge and creativity and intelligence. Most of the time the guy who knows the most things is considered smarter. Even though he might be utterly incapable of creating something new.
  
  Note I am not saying ARR is not creative. Only that I have yet to see him integrate a different kind of music system (say Jazz) with Tamil/Indian music into a system. IR has integrated Western Classical into TFM like a system. Its like a formula which everybody can follow (eg Deva).
  
  if ARR keeps adding samba in one song, bhangra in another and on and on, in my eyes he loses credibility. I want to see him show a deeper understanding of another music system and show how it can be used to sing tamil songs in way that is not perceived totally alien by our people.
  
  Dont think the whole TFM is a IR fandom, its just that most people here listen to music seriously (I guess). IRs stuff is really serious stuff, man. You should get more of his albums and listen to them. You will keep discovering lots of stuff in his music. I heard his bass score only after I got my separate speakers and amps.
  
  (ARR for Iruvar has added LP pops/hiss noise to the song to make it sound 'vintage' this is the kind of attention to detail I appreciate not the Macs, especially the spacy pathnames on Mac :-), silly MS guys copied it and I have trouble with that on NT).
  
  
  

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