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TFM MD'S musical approach and recording technqs

Topic started by UV (@ 138.88.107.150) on Sun Feb 3 14:58:08 EST 2002.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Here we will discuss constructively about the various trends in compsoing,recording techniqs,methods that existed,adopted,tried and being introduced by all our MDS with major focus IR nd ARR followed by others.
Hopefully those who read the postings will get an idea about Music making and thats its an art of the highest creativity of human mind.
And not mere digital gadgetry or synth music

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Srikanth (@ 151.201.225.222) on: Tue Feb 5 23:30:27 EST 2002
  
  voice-sax combo in Smayiyay first interlude (KK).
  might be he used the roland Pharse Sampler, with which we can do such things. Though I am not sure about it. Some kind of envelope mix matching in the sound. Very interesting though.
  
  Scratchs , usually from a keyboard (Hope we mean the samething.) in TT it sounds more like a korg o1/w keyboard. However once again we never know what arr had in his hat.
  
  I will on check smaiyiyai.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.150.249) on: Wed Feb 6 13:47:18 EST 2002
  
  "Another question is related to recording. In most of rahman's songs I hear the song being echoed, as if being sung a second time., eg-yenna solla pogirai from KK. Can u tell me how they do it? "
  Sam..this is 'echo effect' or Srikanth would call it delay. Even Naaz observed earlier, that ARR is a guy focussed on 'sound' and that is my opinion. This is good and bad, in my books. Good because you get to hear pleasant/interesting sounds. Possibly bad because it can take one's focus off of the 'notes' (which is what music is all about - we dont talk about effects in classical music, right ?)
  
  
• From: UV (@ 134.113.202.17) on: Wed Feb 6 14:36:44 EST 2002
  
  Kiru and others esp composers like Srikanth
  I want to have you opinion
  Would like to record music with musicians or use synth and sound modules.
  
  To me it has both good and bad sides
  The good side makes my life easier,if i get an inspiration i can always go ahead and record it and later if reqd i can ask say a flutist or violinst to play to part to make it sound original instead of electronic
  
  The advnt of Synth and digital music has done lot ground breaking things in music world but big bad effect altealt lot of artist feels is that it has killed thier job(troups who used to play with MDs like IR,Deva and others) since now MD can choose who and where he wants to use natural instruments.
  
  And what do you think of sound modules ?
  Has ARR or IR using it.
  I have heard few YSR songs where I could easily identify the sound modules
  
  
• From: Sam (@ 132.235.18.15) on: Wed Feb 6 14:42:02 EST 2002
  
  Kiru, I feel that music is both about sound and notes, not just notes. Now when i say sound, I mean two things, One is the timbre of the instrument/instruments used, and the second one is the technique used to play the instrument. U can just pick the guitar with a pick or play it differently with mutes, harmonics, tappings, hammer ons etc. It depends on the composers sense of sound, and musicians skill. So sound is definitely an interesting aspect to me as are two melody lines in counterpoint.
  
  if U say 'we don talk about effects in classical music",, I wud say playing a violin in pizzicato is a technique aimed at bringing another 'sound' to the violin, using the pedals in the piano is for getting another "sound" like a dampened or sustaining sound, using nylon strings for a classical guitar is to get another sound from it. I think we don talk about them cos they have become a standard feature in that music. If music is just about notes, I don think we need to go for newer instruments, instruments from other countries and so on, just palying evrything on the violins, harmoniums wud be fine then.
  
  I am lookin forward to read ur views also on this.
  
  Srikanth, I was talkin about the scratchy sound that comes for the first time before the strings start their section. It is right after the female voices sing some french(?) lines and the first strings part.
  
  
• From: Sam (@ 132.235.18.15) on: Wed Feb 6 14:44:54 EST 2002
  
  Srikanth, read the my post as
  I was talkin about the scratchy sound that comes for the first time before the strings start their section. It is right after the female voices sing some french(?) lines and before the first strings part
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.150.249) on: Wed Feb 6 15:34:36 EST 2002
  
  UV, keyboard/synth, IMO is a great prototyping/modeling tool. I think when you use sound modules they are plugged in using MIDI interfaces. I am told MIDI is 15 or 20 yrs old and there are problems of 'delay' etc. I dont understand this fully. This was based on a interview a famous recording engineer in a rcdg magazine. He was advocating the use of samples/loops. I think this is the approach taken by ARR also in recent times, I think. Listen to Dil Se and KK. You can tell KK is a acoustic performace. To me, I think, music played with real instruments has a 'smooth flow'/'ease'.
  
  Sam, you have a point. I think the truth is somewhere in between. Performers/artists should improve upon pushing the limits of the instrument, or try new instruments. Composers can work on more high level stuff like structure/organisation etc.
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ 216.65.106.130) on: Wed Feb 6 16:18:23 EST 2002
  
  UV,
  Depends on what kind of music you work on.
  As far as arr is concerned, he uses as per his requirement, imo most of his songs are from original instruments only. I checked this fact with people who work with arr some time ago, they told me first he lays a keyboard track and overlays the original instruments.
  
  We can easily identify which is synth and which is natural. A composer does not become superior because he/she uses 100% natural instruments, or a composer does not become inferior if he/she uses synth only. Bottom line "Music" should sound good.
  
  Depends on various factor, arr works on film score, Which demands many things. imo 70% of arr score are from natural instruments.
  
  belive me in indian film industry a keyboard player is most respected guy :)
  
  sound modules: they are the sound engines without a keyboard interface, it works with midi master, in short a keyboard stripped its sound engine is a sound module.
  
  Though General Midi is quite old, it is not slow, I control about 5-7 modules from my pc midi interface, it syncs perfectly in time. I sych audio recording from my keyboards to protools using midi. I have not had problems at all. The new gm2 std is more powerful. However many dont use midi these days just for the reason they dont understand it properly. To use modules you need to know basics of midi automatation.
  
  
  Sam good points on "Sound" and "Music" , sound is a vital factor to make music good. IMO, Improper usage of sounds will reduce the color/glow in music. Arr does this perfectly, apart from sound , which is often hilighted, musically we find lots of things in arrs score.
  
  
• From: Sam (@ 132.235.18.15) on: Wed Feb 6 19:15:44 EST 2002
  
  I think KK title song wud be a good example to discuss about the aspects of Synth/Natural and Sound/Notes.
  
  The title song is an interesting mix of both natural (acoustic) and Synth instruments. The guitar/guitars(?), flute, violins, harp make up the acousitc instruments, and a part of rhythm section and back up chords, and bell like sounds at various parts in the song make up the synth parts. I donno where to include the excellent bass guitar in this song. First impression for a person concentrating on the rhythms wud be this is a synth oriented song, but when we listen to how the other instruments are used, we can see good usage of the acoustic instruments.
  
  Coming to the sound aspects,
  1.We see that the flute is never used as a dominating instrument, except for a couple of bars in the first interlude, even then the violins seem to be louder. But the way flute is used results in good sounds. It plays the back up for the guitars, violins and the voices. That gives a new texture to the usual sound. Some egs: hear the flute accompanying the guitar in the intro, then the strings and voices in the second interlude. The bass flute fits in so well with the voice (esp in the second interlude after the string section). U never hear the flute by itself, but the way it accompanies others results in good innovative sounds.
  
  2.Again listen to the various bell like sounds and cymbals thru the song. When the singers sing the lines "Malar manjam, vili kenjum" in the pallavi, listen to how the sound from the bell and the cymbal being plated at the same time result in.
  
  3.The guitar and harp(?) together give an interesting sound in the intro.
  
  4.And my fave wud be the opening phrases of the 1st interlude, thats a good combo of instruments. I cant make out what all instruments are used, but theres a flute, a bass flute, a pizzicato violin(?) and some other instrument.
  
  Coming to the musical aspects,
  1.The song has a leitmotif or a theme which can be heard at various places in the song.
  2.For the pallavi in the lines "Kandukonden kandukonden", the theme is played in addition to the singing. The guitars and the harp play three notes for evry one note by the singers, making it a 3:1, that is a second species counterpoint. And towards the end when the singers kandukonden kandukonden for the last time, the theme gives three notes for evry one note of the singer and the chords change for evry two notes of the singer.
  3.Again in the pallavi for the lines "Yen kann parthathu, yen kai saerumaa", the string section plays it parts in another ratio.
  4. The second interlude opening is another palce where another ratio for the main line and the bass is used (one bass note for evry four main melody notes).
  4.In the first interlude, listen to how the flute and string section play the same melody line together. The flute is played in legato style. The strings play the same melody (with minor variations in the ending the phrases) in staccato style. Then the violins come back to the legato style to end the interlude.
  6. And the chords used really influence the momentum of the song. To be frank I donno the all the chords but I cud feel their movement in the song (listen to the charanam after the first pallavi, at one place the chords go forward, and at another they just stay at one place).
  
  Srikanth, and others cud add in other/better inputs/corrections to make this clearer.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.150.249) on: Wed Feb 6 20:58:40 EST 2002
  
  Sam, I like the way you analyse songs. Unfortunately, I did not like this song, so I have not listened to it in depth.
  Re: Sound/Notes. As per my observation, ARR turns natural sounds to notes or vice versa. I will give you an example to explain this - thenmERku paruvakkARRu song in karuththammA. You can hear the rain drops as keyboard sound and the sAral sounds as splash on crash cymbals (?). Even though this songs is supposed to have it beats from a Dr Alban song, ARR has infused his creativity in this aspect to the rhythm here apart from the melody.
  
  
• From: Sam (@ 132.235.18.132) on: Wed Feb 6 23:01:53 EST 2002
  
  I made a mistake, for whereever i said one note of the singer, make it two notes of the singer.
  Could someone tell me whats the instrument used in the first interlude for Poove sem poove? It comes after the initial veena, strings combo in the 1st interlude. Is it a violin or something in the violin family? I am not sure.
  By the way, cud someone direct me to some mp3 link for Niram Prithu from Time? thats one of my fave. Thanks
  
  kiru, Nice observation. Glad we are exchanging instead of fighting.
  
  

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