Home   Forum   Wiki   Notes   Register   FAQ   Sitemap   About Us   Contact Us  

Why Tamil Film Music is WAY AHEAD of other Indian Film Music?

Topic started by ..raj (@ 203.200.197.65) on Wed Feb 18 06:42:07 EST 2004.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Be it IR, MSV, AR, YSR, or HJ..... Why Tamil Film music and composition is a way ahead of other Indian Film Music? Or I am feeling so since I am listening to them often?

---

Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: AV (@ 132.206.72.62) on: Tue Mar 2 10:21:41 EST 2004
  
  HYPE:
  
  "Do any of the RDB fans can make a list of his hit songs, which they confidently feel, is not inspired either from western pop, or from bengali songs ( rabindranath/SDB songs)?"
  ================================================
  
  You almost seem to imply that EVERY famous RDB song is copied :) Based on what? Just 35 songs? :)
  As I mentioned (and maybe you missed this point of mine), 5 direct lifts and 30 inspirations out of more than 2500 songs is not sufficient to label RDB as a useless plagiarist. If you disagree with this, then I have nothing to add further. "Chura Liya Hai" is an excellent rework of the original song. It is very subjective to say that "this" line of the song is the best one. Atleast I would judge a song in totality. And in most cases, I prefer RDBs adaptation to the original. Please note that there is a lot of difference between RDB and the likes of Annu Mallick and Nadeem ShravaN. The latter indulge in note-by-note lifting, in film after film after film.
  
  One more point - if an artist has a large number of fans, it is idle to say that it is entirely unmerited. Why do you think there are thousands of RDB fans, and very few of Annu Mallick? Several classical musicians have had a very high opinion about RDB. That includes many who never worked with him, too! Many of the people in the pancham egroup are very well-trained in classical music.
  
  That RDB was was destined to become famous, was proved in his very first film: 'ghar aaja ghir aaye badaraa saanwariyaa' is the work of a music composer par excellence. Just have one listen to "O Meri Jaan Maine Kahaa" from "The Train". Its there on musicindiaonline.com - if a music composer can compose something like THAT, I would call him a genius.
  
  
• From: raja m (@ 67.87.27.19) on: Tue Mar 2 11:08:48 EST 2004
  
  Av:
  Excellent write up, on and off RDB has been dissed here, that just speaks of how much music the disser has listened to. I am a big fan of RDB (since my school days)and his contribution to HFM is just staggering. Glad to read posts from those who appreciate RDB in this forum.
  
  
  
• From: prasanna (@ 61.247.242.102) on: Tue Mar 2 12:01:10 EST 2004
  
  plz guyz...wuts AV and wuts AVR?...full form plz.
  
  
• From: HYPE (@ 199.67.140.76) on: Tue Mar 2 13:03:34 EST 2004
  
  Av,
  I thought I did make it very clear, that I am talking about songs inspired both from western and bengali sources. The list in Karthik's site only deals with songs inspired from western sources.
  Out of 2500 songs you mentioned how many of them are popular songs?. Out of those popular songs, how many songs were his original creation, not inspired ( Nicely Put) from any other sources.
  I really do not think that his output after late 70's were that popular and most of the 35 songs listed in the website belong to 70's.
  I am not really taking any sides here. Though Deva, Anumalik, Bapphi Lahari, Nadeem Shravan have also indulged in copying ( Just like RDB), they also have done some nice indianization too(Just like RDB). Your line of defense is, RDB has better good to great songs ratio, so he can not be included in the list. I am asking out of that good to great songs, how many he borrowed it from bengali and other indian sources.
  I am going to ask you one more time.
  Could you list RDB popular songs feeling confidently that, it is neither inspired from western pop songs nor from bengali songs?.
  These are kind of songs, you strongly feel that it is RDB's own creation, and it is not borrowed from any other sources ( even one line).
  Let's see, how much confident you have in RDB abilities.
  
  
  
• From: HYPE (@ 199.67.140.76) on: Tue Mar 2 13:27:38 EST 2004
  
  From RMIM archives -
  
  http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=32022939.5F15%40tir.few.eur.nl&rnum=20
  
  From Ashoke Kumar Sinha:-
  
  In many Hindi songs RD Burman used SD Burman's composition. But most of
  the time he just took the first two or three lines of the tune and the
  rest he composed by himself. Such as in "Ijazaat", the mukhrda of "Khaali
  haath shaam ayi" was taken from SD's Bengali song "Malakhani chhilo
  haat-e jhore tobu jhore na". But the rest of the song was RD's own
  composition. Some more examples :-
  
  1) "Mithe bol bole" (Kinara) - "Madhu Brindabon-e dol-e Shyam-Rai".
  
  2) "Tuney yeh rangeele kaisa jadoo kiya" (Kudrat) - "Haay ki kori ei
  mano niya".
  
  3) "Manchali o manchali, kaun si hai yeh gali" (Barsat Ki Ek Raat)
  - "Sundori lo sundori".
  
  
  There is also example where RD lifted a complete song originally
  composed by SD, namely "Jab bhi koi kangna bole payal khanak jaaye" of
  Shaukeen. I cannot remember the exact lyrics of the original Bengali
  song, but it is something like this: "Chikon paaye rinik jhinik payel
  khani baje."
  
  ---------------
  
  
  
• From: Note Man (@ 24.11.160.10) on: Tue Mar 2 13:49:58 EST 2004
  
  Taking even a mukhda becomes serious when the composer is composing for pre-written lyrics. With some kind of start, even people with little musical intuition can try and complete the composition. The beginning of the song still is the most important part and is what remains on the listener's mind. Also, if you are classically oriented by knowing the raaga of the song, you can complete the rest of song based on past experiences. But this will require a more knowledgable person, which in this case is RDB.
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ 208.24.179.29) on: Tue Mar 2 14:24:55 EST 2004
  
  Of the 3 Bengali songs quotes, at least 2 are RDB's own compositions in Bengali - they are NOT SDB compositions. So he recycled his own Bengali tunes - what is the big deal? Even SDB (just like RDB) used Bengal as a test market for their Hindi songs.
  
  
• From: AV (@ 132.206.72.62) on: Tue Mar 2 14:50:48 EST 2004
  
  Could you list RDB popular songs feeling confidently that, it is neither inspired from western pop songs nor from bengali songs?.
  ----------------------------------------
  
  No, I shall spare myself the time and trouble of writing down such a huge list. You can continue to speculate that all his songs were copied from some (imaginary) source. :-)
  
  
• From: HYPE (@ 199.67.140.76) on: Tue Mar 2 15:34:39 EST 2004
  
  AV,
  I will speculate that you do not want to list any songs and finding out later that it is inspired. I understand your dilemma :-).
  I never told that all of this songs were copied. Did I?. No. I am only curious to find out how many of his hit songs were inspired or copied.
  One of the great hallmarks of any great music director is to compose popular songs at their peak
  and doing it consistently. Only less talented music directors will resort to inspiration or copying to sustain the populartiy and survive in the market.
  To me, When ever I listen to any RDB songs, I do like many of his songs, I will always put a question mark on the originality of the composition, similarly, I do for music directors like deva, Anu malik and others.
  
  
  
  
• From: AV (@ 132.206.72.62) on: Tue Mar 2 16:07:38 EST 2004
  
  I will speculate that you do not want to list any songs and finding out later that it is inspired.
  ===========================
  
  For your benefit, I repeat:
  "No, I shall spare myself the trouble of writing down such a huge list".
  
  In other words, there are far too many songs (popular or not popular) which are his original creations. If you want to prove otherwise, you make a list of songs (popular or not) which he actually copied, and enlist the sources side by side. This is a lot simpler task - in fact atleast 50 times simpler :). If you are unable to list the sources, then it is a tribute to your truly imaginative spirit :).
  
  "When ever I listen to any RDB songs, I do like many of his songs, I will always put a question mark on the originality of the composition"
  
  At this rate, all of us can start saying: "Hey, I liked this song by music director XYZ but whenever I listen to it I feel it is copied". If you have a hunch that it is copied, then you ought to do the required research to trace the source. If you are unable to trace the source, the claim you wish to make is obviously weak. :)
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 68.16.25.50) on: Tue Mar 2 18:13:14 EST 2004
  
  AV, Chura Liya was quite a popular number and is definitely inspired. As for your defense that RDB just took the idea and "adapted" it, even Deva did the same with his songs in Aasai. Just the 1 -line guitar bit from Rod Stewart was developed into a song. 35 songs is quite significant considering how many inspired songs his contemporaries or his predecessors in the 60s had. The first 2 lines of Chura Liya are the ones that are hummed the most and those were the ones that were inspired. RDB is leading all Hindi MDs. MSV/IR have done many more songs(>3000) and have far less number of inspired songs, atleast until now.
  
  Also, using a popular carnatic krithi AS IS in a film album is NOT the same as using an idea(consisting of a line or two) from a remote western song and passing it off as your own. (Every MD has done this, not just RDB) While the former is more of an open tribute the latter is plagiarism.
  Coming back to the main title, I really feel that HFM took a nosedive after 75. Who were the others besides RDB anyways who were giving great music in the late 70s? Bappi Lahiri? LP?
  
  
• From: Thoduvaanam (@ 24.218.120.27) on: Tue Mar 2 19:30:36 EST 2004
  
  2500 songs! Are you sure RDB was involved in that many songs?
  
  
• From: HYPE (@ 199.67.138.76) on: Wed Mar 3 18:13:59 EST 2004
  
  Vijay,
  Good points. I was also thinking of pointing about aasai song, and you beat me on that.
  Take another example of a Deva song- 'Mudhan mudhali parthen' in the movie 'AAHA'.
  Melody wise, it is a complete reproduction of the hindi song 'soche.nge tumhe'. But Deva did a wonderful job in reworking the orchestration and rhythm and convert a lifeless, badly executed song ( both singing and orchestration) to a beautiful song. Lot of other music directors have done stuff like that, nothing special there.
  The real question is, why they have to resort to copying a song in the first place.
  To me, either RDB is lazy or had a great success with reworked songs, thought that it was the easy way to stay in the top.
  Whether he is talented or not, that is a subjective question. Infact being more talented, it is much more difficult to support his copying disease compared to others.
  But his copying disease is real and it has to go against his name.
  
  
  
• From: raja m (@ 67.87.27.19) on: Wed Mar 3 20:41:58 EST 2004
  
  HYPE:
  
  Just to humour you , listen to En purushan Thaan enakku mattum Thaan, then listen to Dum Maro Dum. IR inspired from RDB :-))
  
  A sample of RDB's creative output :
  Songs from Ajnabee, Amar Prem, Kinara, Khusboo, Mere Jeevan Saathi, Aap Ki Kasam, Saagar, Caravan, Teesri Manzil.
  
  Has RDB copied/been inspired from western music, yes, so have the greats from TFM, including MSV, IR and ARR.
  
  
  
  
  
  

---

List all pages of this thread

Post comments