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Why Tamil Film Music is WAY AHEAD of other Indian Film Music?

Topic started by ..raj (@ 203.200.197.65) on Wed Feb 18 06:42:07 EST 2004.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Be it IR, MSV, AR, YSR, or HJ..... Why Tamil Film music and composition is a way ahead of other Indian Film Music? Or I am feeling so since I am listening to them often?

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Bollywood music sucks (@ 141.157.236.35) on: Sun Feb 29 08:46:36 EST 2004
  
  "If Bappi had been sued India would have gone bankrupt.The decline of HFM started after 1974-75,decisevely Post-sholay period.Save for some bright talents like SEL and Vishal Baradwaj the situation is pathetic today. "
  
  Good someone agrees with me.
  
  
  "Sometime back i raised a question as to whether there are any Classical music movies/Classical raga usage in HFM since 80.When we can quote many numbers of IR ,ARR -AV(AVR?) a Dfer could respond with a solitary movie - Bhairavi ,the Ashwini Bhave starrer (MD-LP)."
  
  Hridaynath Mangeshkar's Lekin too. The problem is HFM caters for lowest common denominator. I mean it has to cater for entire north indian population and population which has migrated to north. Most city breeds have little interest/knowledge in classical music out there. The lack of respect for folk art among people of North Indian cities is hard to believe. "I don't like regional music" seems to be the kind of thinking. You are the loser if you don't want to appreciate an art because it hurts your image. They would rather listen to latest Western rip off than listening to folksy song as it hurts the image to be identify oneself with some cultural flavor. Past generation grew up listening to Hindustani Classical Music. The present generation doesn't listen to that. End result Bappi Lahiri, Nadeem Shravan, Jatin Lalit.
  
  
• From: AV (@ 132.206.72.96) on: Sun Feb 29 11:16:01 EST 2004
  
  "Most city breeds have little interest/knowledge in classical music out there. I don't like regional music seems to be the kind of thinking"
  
  Yes, I would agree with you that this seems to be the general scenario. There are at least two big exceptions as far as I know, though: Pune and Calcutta. In Pune, (the educated) people still prefer traditional Marathi and Hindi music over film music. All classical, devotional and semiclassical music festivals (of which there are many) are superhits. Marathi music has been nearly untouched by westernization, fortunately, by far and large. Probably because it is non-film, mostly from private albums or from theatre, and has somehow maintained a very low profile in India. But even today, top-ranked poets write the lyrics, which are set to tune by some excellent (but sadly unknown) composers. These composers would compare with the best of the best in India. The singers are also pretty good, but they have never made it big on the national scene. Examples are Suresh Wadkar and Asha Khadilkar. To corroborate my point, songs like these are still popular today in Pune, even amongst the youth:
  
  http://us.f2.yahoofs.com/bc/4011988a_97a/bc/My+Documents/Marathi-Natya-VikalMan.mp3?bfUShQABaA5HeveN
  
  "Sometime back i raised a question as to whether there are any Classical music movies/Classical raga usage in HFM since 80.When we can quote many numbers of IR ,ARR -AV(AVR?) a Dfer could respond with a solitary movie - Bhairavi ,the Ashwini Bhave starrer (MD-LP)."
  
  OISG:
  
  Yes, AV = AVR :). I wouldnt dispute your basic point, but there are some more movies: any movie with music by Jaidev or Khayyam (even in the 80s). Especially Ankahee (Jaidev won the national award for it). It has wonderful songs by Bhimsen Joshi and some Kabir bhajans by Asha Bhosle. R D Burman too came up with some very good classical songs. And Khayyam's Umrao Jaan (1981) was a masterpiece by any standard.
  
  http://us.f2.yahoofs.com/bc/4011988a_97a/bc/My+Documents/umrao_jaan_(1981)_-_pratham_dhar_dhyan_-_raagmala.mp3?bfUShQAB4T_4OlDP
  
  http://www.geocities.com/pdeepali/Songs/asha/man_anand_chayo.ram
  
  
• From: C~P (@ 61.95.159.16) on: Sun Feb 29 11:55:36 EST 2004
  
  AV(R)!,
  "The website for plagiarism in Indian film music lists around 30-35 songs by RDB that were inspired or copied."
  Can you give the link for this please. Just want to know the 30 songs on the list!
  
  
• From: AV (@ 132.206.72.96) on: Sun Feb 29 12:50:21 EST 2004
  
  http://www.iespana.es/i2fs/
  
  If you read the comments carefully, you will see that even the creator of the site (Karthik S.) calls most of those 35 songs as cases of INSPIRATION and not copies/ lifts.
  
  For instance (quotes from his site):
  
  1) R D Burman's was a good Indianized version of the original! (Tumse milke)
  
  2) Well, there are sure traces of the original in the hindi version but this could be termed as a good inspiration - again, no way a blatant copy!
  (Chura liya hai)
  
  3) Surely inspired, but no copy, this! (phir wohi raat hai).
  
  4)What Pancham seems to have used is just snapshots of the original in the prelude of the Rocky number. The actual tune for the words 'aa dekhe zara' remains Pancham's original
  
  5)"Jeevan ke har ek mod pe".
  
  Looks like it is inspired from a Azerbaijani number 'Gulsenim'. Stumbled upon this track by chance while searching for some Azerbaijani tracks via Napster! The track song clip is here to listen, but it could be a possible reverse copying too - possibly the Azerbaijani number has been inspired by some other number, based on which RDB created the hindi song!
  
  (end quotes)
  
  So, when a person has just 30 _inspired_ songs and 5 directly lifted songs in a highly versatile career spanning 331 films + 4 non-film albums + 25 unreleased film (i.e. atleast 2500 songs), spanning over 3 decades, it would be unfair to call him a blatant plagiarist. I don't think these numbers go beyond the moderate limits of plagiarism. RDB was famous for his talent, innovative spirit and hard work. He was not famous only because of his "copied" tunes.
  (see: http://www.panchamonline.com
  http://members.tripod.com/nilangshu/ )
  
  The tag of "blatant plagiarist" may be reserved for Deva, Veda, Nadeem Shravan, Annu Mallick etc, not for RDB. It would be worthwhile to note again that even the much tainted "Chura Liya Hai" is not a blatant lift in any way.
  
  
• From: Bollywood music sucks (@ 141.157.223.41) on: Sun Feb 29 19:17:25 EST 2004
  
  "Pune and Calcutta. In Pune, (the educated) people still prefer traditional Marathi and Hindi music over film music. All classical, devotional and semiclassical music festivals (of which there are many) are superhits."
  
  Yes I know Pune is a pro classical music city. But, influence of Mumbai makes Classical and Marathi traditional music less visible outside Maharashtra. Calcutta's musica tradition however seems to be thing of the past. Or may be we/I hear lesser than we used to in the past. I mean, Salil, SD Burman, Hemant etc came from there. Now, I don't even hear about anyone.
  
  
  "Marathi music has been nearly untouched by westernization, fortunately, by far and large."
  
  Unfortunate side of this is lack of marketing for local music. This could kill the art.
  
  
• From: sim (@ 66.198.79.3) on: Mon Mar 1 05:48:59 EST 2004
  
  "R D Burman's was a good Indianized version of the original! (Tumse milke)"
  
  It was LakshmiKant-Pyarelal not RD Burman.
  
  
  
• From: OISG (@ 195.229.241.170) on: Mon Mar 1 06:51:51 EST 2004
  
  Tum se mil from Parinda is indeed by RDB
  
  
• From: HYPE (@ 199.67.140.76) on: Mon Mar 1 16:47:36 EST 2004
  
  AV,
  Karthik's current comments are more subdued, compared to the original comments. He had taken some heat from the RMIM RDB gang members regarding his original comments, and sadly settled in for some nicer but not accurate comments.
  Do any of the RDB fans can make a list of his hit songs, which they confidently feel, is not inspired either from western pop, or from bengali songs ( rabindranath/SDB songs)?.
  
  You mentioned that, you prefer RDB's indianised songs compared to the original english songs, because Asha was part of it. Care to list few songs for me with the original artist name.
  
  IMO, RDB is so far lucky to get away, because of his fanatical fan base.
  Their usual defence is always to point out that most of this songs borrowed only few lines from the english songs. Though it may be true for few songs. The problem is, he could not have composed the songs with out those few lines and most of the time, those few lines are the best part the song.
  
  I see huge difference between inspiring or copying from contempary artists to composing songs from traditional classical songs.
  
  
  
  
• From: :-) (@ 203.200.199.155) on: Mon Mar 1 23:20:16 EST 2004
  
  :-)
  HYPE i think u should re read AVRs earlier post. RDB is not remembered for the 20 odd songs
  that are inspirations/copies. Like the old hindi giants and like IR, RD is one of the few MDs
  whose each cassette is perhaps better than most of the collections of hits in todays time.
  Songs from Aandhi or songs like Raina Beeti Jaay, Merey Naina Saawan Bhadon and countless
  numbers would figure above the list of inspirations/copies. In fact its tough to list songs
  from him that you would want to skip when listening to a collection.
  But i guess if you have decided to take sides, no one can convince you. Like i said earlier
  i "know" IR is great because he comes up with
  "pani vizum/nee daaney/andi mazai/Naguva Nayana.."
  i cant argue with someone who bases his opinion on IR based on songs like
  "Singari Piyari/April-Mayile/Ponnana Meni (and let me add the copied Kanavu Kaanum)".
  
  As far as inspired songs go its not just AVR but many people who preferred RDs to the original. Remember AArandhana!!! even we southies were singing and still do the songs. This is just to answer you and i still insist that my opinion is not on these 20 odd songs
  
  
  
• From: :-) (@ 203.200.199.155) on: Mon Mar 1 23:20:55 EST 2004
  
  :-)
  HYPE i think u should re read AVRs earlier post. RDB is not remembered for the 20 odd songs
  that are inspirations/copies. Like the old hindi giants and like IR, RD is one of the few MDs
  whose each cassette is perhaps better than most of the collections of hits in todays time.
  Songs from Aandhi or songs like Raina Beeti Jaay, Merey Naina Saawan Bhadon and countless
  numbers would figure above the list of inspirations/copies. In fact its tough to list songs
  from him that you would want to skip when listening to a collection.
  But i guess if you have decided to take sides, no one can convince you. Like i said earlier
  i "know" IR is great because he comes up with
  "pani vizum/nee daaney/andi mazai/Naguva Nayana.."
  i cant argue with someone who bases his opinion on IR based on songs like
  "Singari Piyari/April-Mayile/Ponnana Meni (and let me add the copied Kanavu Kaanum)".
  
  As far as inspired songs go its not just AVR but many people who preferred RDs to the original. Remember AArandhana!!! even we southies were singing and still do the songs. This is just to answer you and i still insist that my opinion is not on these 20 odd songs
  
  
  

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