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Is TFM in a vicious cycle of degeneration?

Topic started by rajaG (@ 208.24.179.211) on Tue Sep 26 15:43:14 EDT 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I have checked the archives and for some reason a topic with a similar heading is gone!
So here's is some food for thought.

1. Actors like Ajith, Vijay, etc commanding MDs to copy from "English CDs" and set them to Indian lyrics.
2. MDs like Deva, Sirpi copying left, right and center, in situations excluding item 1 above.
3. Bad pronunciation of singers.
4. MDs like SAR repeating the same tune over and over and over......you get the point (and many times in the same film)
5. ARR not putting any effort in re-recording at all- merely playing the songs in the movie with slower/faster versions.
6. ARR, Srikanth (Deva's son), etc blatantly indulging in lip-synch activities. Other lesser known artists, engaged in karaoke singing. While this does not directly affect TFM it speaks for the lack of confidence in the talents of the artists.
7. Many occurences of really stupid lyrics - though most of them may be blamed on the director/producers adamant insistence or same boring situations.
8. Absence of thespians who could inspire Kannadasan, TMS, SPB, PS etc to give their best.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.150.249) on: Thu Feb 27 00:16:59 EST 2003
  
  ""enna solli pAduvatho' from En Mana Vaanil is a delightful melody"
  
  Suresh, just like Udhaya who was restraining himself from saying anything negative about the azhagi songs, I was restraining myself from saying anything positive about any IR song, in the light of the polarised situation in TFM :) . But then I could not resist the temptation anymore.
  
  If this song is just a 'delightful melody' there would be lot of competition for it from other MDs. But it is more than that. This song has a heavy dosage of western classical techniques in it. The prelude itself has counterpoints. Then the whole rest of the songs is layered with strings and sometimes the flute plays nice countermelodies. A similar song in TIME is orchestrated with piano. The vandhe Mataram song in Bharati and the Hey Ram song being similar to each other in the 'march' rhythm belong to the same genre, IMO. Another okay example, is vaanavillE vaanavillE from Ramana.
  
  The indian ear is used to/trained to hear a single melody and variations in it linearly. These songs beg you to listen to the multiple strands of melody playing at the same time. If somebody appreciates these nuances, IR is the only source for it in film music.
  
  I love these kind of songs. BTW, I dont think there is any electronics in this song. IR used a 50 or 60 person orchestra for this. If you have a good stereo setup with full-range speakers, it is really enjoyable. I have to go home and listen to them now :).
  
  (Why dont you guys just ignore the juveniles around here ?)
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.150.249) on: Thu Feb 27 00:18:55 EST 2003
  
  BTW, I wish rjay, who has recently joined us from his sabbatical :) will throw more light on these songs.
  
  
• From: suresh (@ 202.88.155.34) on: Thu Feb 27 02:01:53 EST 2003
  
  Kiru
  Treading cautiously, aren't we? :)
  I quite like 'Enna Solli', it ranks high up among my contemporary chart. I was wrong on the electronics count, must give it a closer hearing from your perspective; though I still think the charanams sagged a bit and the singing... Guess one's getting sentimental in imagining what would've happened to any good duet such as this in the voices of SPB/Chitra, but I thought even UK and Sujatha would've carried this one to greater heights. Disappointed with IR's choice of singers & lyricists these days. Can't offhand recall a song high on lyrical quality after Pulamaipithan's "Ethilum Ingu" (Bharathi).
  
  Trivia: Was viewing UK's interview the other day, in which he mentioned that for "Manasse.." in Kaathal Saathi, he was asked to sing without opening his lips much. I often wondered why he sounded so different in this favourite song..
  
  
  
• From: Are Yaar (@ 203.115.31.67) on: Thu Feb 27 04:01:36 EST 2003
  
  >>>whatever it is, still SACHIN's 50's make many cricket fans go crazy - like me and FLIFLO :-)
  
  and me too.
  
  
• From: Fliflo (@ 146.186.113.179) on: Thu Feb 27 13:37:16 EST 2003
  
  Come on guys (Sam & Udhaya)! don't try to beat each other as you're getting more and more exposed. Stop this nonsense and concentrate on your discussions relating to the topic. Everybody wants to see both of your knowledge to be spent constructively. As far as I follow, you guys fight for almost no reason.
  
  
• From: mythila (@ 137.237.13.20) on: Thu Feb 27 13:45:31 EST 2003
  
  Kiru,
  Enna solli paaduvatho is a beautiful sudhadhanyasi composition. After a lo..ng time after 'pattu solli paada solli'( shivaranjini) in Azhagi, I have got 5 numbers to sing to my heart's content
  1. enna solli
  2. ennaku piditha paadal
  3. mouname paarvayai
  4. vaanaville vaanaville.
  5. sonnaalum ketpadillai
  These current songs are any female singer's delight.
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 64.172.105.149) on: Thu Feb 27 15:39:42 EST 2003
  
  Fliflo,
  I never claim to be a saint. We were having a decent discussion here until this drive-by-shooter, not a poster, came by. As long as the admins (I don't blame them, they have lives too) haven't erased his posts insulting me, my retaliations will be here.
  
  Ignoring dogs is the higher road to take, I know, but I like to defend myself by throwing a few rocks at them. If this makes me a lesser being than others, so be it. At least I get the satisfaction of not being involved in a one-sided fight. And let the record show how I handled it up to a point. I didn't go asking for it. But if it comes my way, I shall have my say. I don't duck anything, not my style.
  
  Back to worthwhile things:
  How old is this "En Mana Vaanilae" soundtrack? I've heard the other albums of IR. Not this one. I couldn't find it anywhere on the web. Please give me a pointer to it, if you know.
  
  
• From: Fliflo (@ 146.186.113.179) on: Thu Feb 27 16:02:57 EST 2003
  
  Udhaya, this thread was good going for quite sometime. You, suresh, kiru,mythila and many others were doing a wonderful job. You saw how it all got distracted once the dog-fight started.
  
  EnManaVaanil is a one of the very recent Albums of IR. Directed by Vinayan (who directed kasi) the movie was flop in almost every sense. Still a couple of songs are pretty good. Kasi made it without any expectations whereas EMV failed with so much of it. I give you the connexion where you can hear them
  http://www.musicindiaonline.com/music/l/WW00041J
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ 64.126.85.83) on: Thu Feb 27 21:32:21 EST 2003
  
  paravaa illiyE! naa aarambichchu vachcha thread la marubabdiyum revived quality discussion aa? nadakkattum nadakkattum!
  
  BTW, this Sam is not to be confused with the other Sam (from UK I guess) who is a genuine music lover and musician. FYI!
  
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ 64.126.85.83) on: Thu Feb 27 21:38:51 EST 2003
  
  Udhaya,
  
  I do not want to personalize my opinions. However, as a stage singer, most of the current songs do not motivate me to say, "yeah! I wnat to do that number". Overly simplistic melody, bad lyrics, painful reminders of the original singer's version, purposeless cacophony passing of as chorus,.........any of these or a combination thereof demotivates me. Most of the singers whom I have worked with also echo the same feeling. True, that the audience wants the latest hits - but most of the songs don't inspire and one is sure that none of them will linger beyond a few months.
  
  
  
• From: sarat (@ 128.192.5.157) on: Thu Feb 27 22:19:02 EST 2003
  
  rajaG
  
  what do you mean when you say "painful reminders of the original singer's version"? is it the MD's voice that you are referring to?
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.150.249) on: Thu Feb 27 23:50:28 EST 2003
  
  I think he is saying, when he tries to sing (rajaG is a popular stage singer in North America per my understanding) the "original singer's version" i.e the film music singers version is a painful memory to him..
  hmm ..this is really sad.
  
  mythila..thanks for the info, good to know that this song is also set to a traditional scale, while at the same with all the ornamentation of western classical music. The gamakams at the end of each saranam, kind of hint it must be classical. But I am a sangeetha gnanasoonyam to figure out the right rAgam. BTW, what is the 'the songs that you got on a platter from Ceylon radio' ? If it is a LP Record, where can I get it ?
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 64.172.105.149) on: Fri Feb 28 13:06:49 EST 2003
  
  RajaG,
  Mine is a listener's perspective, a musically uneducated one at that. So I listen to a good song today the same as I did in the past. mythila also seems to prefer songs that she can sing. Were I to prefer only the songs that I can sing then I would be restricted to Malaysia Vasudevan, IR songs, especially the ones where their stamina peters out.
  
  mythila said that she couldn't enjoy "Orae Manam" since it was similar to "Malarae Mounama" and once again in Darbari Kanada which made it stale for her. If I were to hold such strict standards then I couldn't enjoy "Kalyaana Maalai Kondaadum Pennae" because it's charanam is too reminiscent of "Kallilae Kalai Vannam Kandaan"; nor could I enjoy "Kuchi Kuchi Rakkamma" (that I still don't enjoy it is another matter, but back to the logic) for its resemblance to "Sendhamizh Thaen Mozhiyaal"; nor "Kannaa Varuvaayaa" for it resembles "Ennathaan Sugamoa Nenjilae"; nor "Kaatrae En Vaasal" for it resembles "Nee Kaettaal Naan Maattaen" which resembles "Aahaaya Pandhalilae Pon oonjal". . .
  
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.150.249) on: Fri Feb 28 13:44:55 EST 2003
  
  Udhaya..looks like you are a good singer .. ha ha :) :) If I were to sing what I am capable of, I would be restricted to nursery rhymes..Even that I am being faulted by my wife..for not teaching it right to my little son :)
  But I am afraid, you are missing the point. It is not that you should listen to songs you can sing..some songs make you want to listen to them again and again in a desire to sing them out yourself ..Just make you want to ..you probably cannot sing is a different matter :) ..It just like you want to play the air guitar after a rock concert. I have no confidence I can sing like Ajay Chakraborthy this jenmam :) ..but I do like to listen to isaiyil thodanguthammm a A a A a .. Everytime you think you know the right place he slid the note..but then again you are not sure..this is fun.
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 64.172.105.149) on: Fri Feb 28 15:17:41 EST 2003
  
  kiru,
  Again, we're back to wanting to listen to songs again and again...I do listen to the songs on my list again and again. I understand RajaG's stance that he won't tread the path of singers inferior to him. I fortunately don't have this impediment when I enjoy a song.
  
  I finally listened to the "En Mana Vaanil" soundtrack. I like "Enna Solli" also, it would've easily made my list of recent songs. However, I didn't care whether it had counterpoint. I remember rjay or srikanth opening a thread about counterpoint, I could train myself to identify it in songs, but my enjoyment of this song was based on the usual factors: sandham, singing, instrumentation, lyrics.
  
  It was nice to see IR going back to Mu.Metha and Muthulingam in "En Mana Vaanil". Wish he had done this right after the split with VM, we would've got many better songs.
  
  RajaG's problem could also be a shift in the modern construction of songs where the short sandhams don't offer the luxury of gamakams and sangathis which the singers of old enjoyed under MSV, IR or ARR in the early days. Whereas sandhams before were like full sentences, now we have sentence fragments glued together with music and chorus interludes. If you thought this was hard on singers, imagine the agony of lyricists.
  
  RajaG,
  I know you speak in generalities when you make a case for the past, but do you sincerely not like Kaadhal Virus, Anbae Sivam and PopCarn songs? Not even a few of them? If so, I'm stunned.
  
  

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