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TFM MD'S musical approach and recording technqs

Topic started by UV (@ 138.88.107.150) on Sun Feb 3 14:58:08 EST 2002.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Here we will discuss constructively about the various trends in compsoing,recording techniqs,methods that existed,adopted,tried and being introduced by all our MDS with major focus IR nd ARR followed by others.
Hopefully those who read the postings will get an idea about Music making and thats its an art of the highest creativity of human mind.
And not mere digital gadgetry or synth music

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Indian (@ 66.65.3.39) on: Sat Feb 9 21:05:08 EST 2002
  
  ARR IS THE BEST...also Illayaraja is the best....they r the masters and gave a life to music....
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ 151.201.226.96) on: Sat Feb 9 21:43:11 EST 2002
  
  Arr gets the best artist. He opts for top of the line musicians. Basically to get these busy artist at a same time/same location is not easy task, you pay money agreed, but stil it not as easy as we think. They are top of the line guys, they have their own rules. For this reason most mds prefer to stay away from them.
  Also it is not a need for arr to do this like other mds in one day, right from day one, he has his studio at disposal, He can specialize more in individual sessions.
  
  Composer comes with fully composed score or not, it does not matter as long the output is good.
  people spend more money on jingles, getting an orchestra is easy for little money in chennai.
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ 151.201.226.96) on: Sat Feb 9 21:46:16 EST 2002
  
  it would nice if some one explains a technique IR used. Too much arr (puranam) invites trouble
  
  
  
• From: ARR kicks the Living Daylights out of himself (@ 65.56.128.74) on: Sat Feb 9 22:52:37 EST 2002
  
  in every art, there are atleast two successful ways of doing things. (in some cases, 3 ways) but in music IR does it the most difficult way, humanly so far not proven possible by anybody else (prolific + all different themes, songs etc.. + new sounds + speed) ARR is proving my point. He has succeeded but in a way that if i were to pursue success in my chosen field i would not do it the arr way type of thing. Easy way. The problem is: daytime scares me (to face all the people in the workplace and be in harmony with mediocrity) i prefer to work in the nightime because noone is judgin plus i can concentrate on improving my skills (in ARR's case to some extent extracting the best from his CD collection, i maybe joking but that is what his work proves ocassionally scoring - a score) Just look att the way IR faces his orchestra, astounded visitors and foreign musicians in daytime for over 10 hours with sole concentration on chanelling the flood of musical notes in his mind on to paper and then to the musicians! How does nyone get ARR in the picture is difficult for me to understand all these years on the forum. But,hey we need comparison though you and I don't like it, we need to keep the discussion goin on...
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.150.249) on: Sat Feb 9 23:35:37 EST 2002
  
  Srikanth, I think it is all ARR's work style. Ofcourse, top musician time etc is there. Looks like an orchestra might be cheap in India..only the recording venue may not be good, I think. Anyways, I have to agree work style does not matter, it is the quality of output.
  Re: the previous's poster point. I also would like to code like the way IR writes notes :) From my mind to the editor, compile and run. Nope, I end up doing it the ARR way :) ..this is what ManiRatnam also said once.
  
  Srikanth, I have no problems in hearing more about ARR. IR has been around for a long time so his work style is understood/well written about. But ARR's style is mysterious. Singers claim, when they finish the recording it is ordinary but the final output blows their minds off. So he must be having some magic.
  
  
• From: viveka (@ 203.199.55.24) on: Sun Feb 10 03:30:11 EST 2002
  
  I am a complete lay person when it comes to music composition. But I am very interested in music, so I guess its all right for me to chip in here. I thought that all songs were composed on a central theme - and no matter how many instruments used, they all followed a pattern. But recently I was listening to 'nee oru kaadhal sangeetham' from 'nayakan'. Well, the music score was fascniating, to say the least. It seemed to have many layers - I hope I am making sense. The base is the theme of the song, which the singers follow. But in the score, there are many more subtle variations. Case in point is the score that comes after the first stanza - there is a distictively 60s piece, that is superimposed over the main score, and it gently merges back into the main score. Are all IRs songs like this? Or was this an exceptionally well orchestrated song? I mean, I thought dsoing this would have taken ages - and does he pay that kind of attention to all songs?
  
  I also would like to know finer points of other MDs compositions like this one. I just want to know so that I can enjoy them more.
  
  
• From: UV (@ 134.113.203.85) on: Mon Feb 11 11:17:42 EST 2002
  
  Good see some nice and useful discussion a sure relief considering the other threads that crop up here.
  I happened to see a old 'Sapthaswaram march 2001' I guess in that Mr.TMS was the judge,during the program he was talking abt singing style and MDs approach towards singers where he said
  "A Good Md should know whats good for singer considering his voice,modulation etc but some stupid MDs who thinks whatever he produce in his harmonium is the perfect music and a singer should sing exactly like that without considering little manobhavam"
  I dont know against who he was complaining anyway ;)
  what your guys take on that ?
  I do know the new generations MDS like ARR,YSR give lots of freedom to singers to bring their own ideas into the song .
  How do the MD arrive that this voice will suitable for singing this type of song ?
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.150.249) on: Mon Feb 11 23:09:24 EST 2002
  
  UV, TMS is upset with IR for not giving him more chances. MSV is called 'mellisai mannar'. I think here 'mellisai' is a relative term - compared to the earlier classical kind of music. IR's style is even more 'melliya music'. TMS style of singing will not go with IRs compositions, IMHO. Actually, even by TMS's definition IR is a good MD. That is the reason he did not have TMS sing for him that much :) (Please dont mistake me, I do like TMS as a singer, just that I feel TMS+IR is not a compatible equation).
  
  
• From: UV (@ 134.113.203.85) on: Tue Feb 12 12:34:02 EST 2002
  
  good kiru
  about TMS we all know that,each one has his own view. But atleast new generation doesnt complain ,atleast not publicly.
  Only sore note I read in a magazine was 'Harini complaining against bhavadharani' once again its from a interview it may be even misquoted.
  We all know about music industry and artists.
  Since been close with some and able to talk with few,I understand onething 'Never praise another artise before a artiste' I dont want to give out names here,but thats my experience.
  
  
  
• From: peeps (@ 203.199.207.198) on: Thu Feb 14 23:23:16 EST 2002
  
  Why the thread stopped suddenly without any new posts?this thread was really informative and like me many are silent readers of this thread..so all musical 'mandai' guys please caryy on where u left..
  As a layman what i understood from whatever i read and hear abt IR's composing style is he simply write down the notes and all players take xerox of it and practise their part and after some time they get ready for recording..but how can it be possible for a human mind to feel and hear the song completely and write it down as notes?Writing notes means does he write down the complete song at one shot?Or he writes once and makes correction here and there?How come he could copose songs which comes between 4 to 5 minutes exactly?
  is there any timer inside his head?
  And during recording what does IR do?Balancing?
  I mean he only takes care of what instruments should sound more at this point..right?
  I mean during interludes for example if a flute shud take the lead is he the one who adjust it??
  Can we write notes for a specific instrument(ex:veena) with gamakams and even minute changes??I am a layman and i have never seen any notes in paper in real life..
  So kindly explain abt the IR's recording style...
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.150.249) on: Fri Feb 15 14:11:58 EST 2002
  
  peeps..I am not a 'music mandai' more probably a 'music mandu' :) but since I happen to see lots of negative posts in this forum. I thought I would post to some good threads to tilt the balance.
  I think what IR does is ..compose the tune first using a harmonium or probably even write this down (I am not sure). But he does have a tape recording of the tune which is given to his assistants/singers for practice. Once this is accepted. He writes down the notes for the instrumentalists to play. This is much easier than communicating to them one by one on what they should play when. IR has been in the business for a long time. So, I think he has a good idea about the timings.
  During recording, you are right he is probably 'balancing' - basically adjust the levels (volume) levels of various tracks/instruments. He can also adjust the reverb so that the instrument sounds closer or far away. The instrument can also be panned to the left or right or in the stereo image. Other things that can be done are adding delays to certain tracks (you can hear a sort of echo repeating the vocals , for eg in a low volume) . This also adds to the harmony.
  Basically, IRs approach is a live mix down to stereo i.e. all the tracks are mixed to provide just 2 tracks for the CD/tape when the whole song is being played live. This is a very trick/difficult task and that probably why IR demands so much discipline in the studio. The advantage is since everybody is playing together..the music is more in 'sync'. The disadvantage is you cannot make fine adjustments to the levels/balance. Also, if one person messes up you have to go for a full take again (one reason I think, only musicians/singers who can learn/play the tune quickly survived with IR, IMHO)
  
  
• From: isaiosai (@ 165.122.128.173) on: Mon Feb 18 15:01:39 EST 2002
  
  I being a non-techie, there are bound to be shortcomings (too many) but here is an attempt…
  
  “NEla adhu vaanathu mElE” from Nayagan:
  
  The song has more or less the same percussion thru out (with slight variations in between) and yet, maintains the interest till its very end. The beats are very original and sound good.
  
  After IR sings “Nela adhu vaanathu mElE”, a string instrument is used, that ends with the vibrations of the note played and not the note itself. This instrument has been used very effectively in this song (in this manner) and I don’t think there is any other instance of any MD (including IR) having used the instrument in this manner, extensively (ending with the vibrations). If there are others, do let me know...i would be interested in those songs. This instrument is played almost thru out the song – pallavi, charanams and both interludes, except for a brief break during the interludes. I find their notes to be very precise and complete.
  
  Keeping in mind that they were thinking of a lullaby in the first place, it is amazing how they came about with this song.
  
  I also notice many of IR’s songs (quite many!) using one or more guitars in the background for pallavi and/or charanams and/or both, in a low volume. I do understand that many other (almost all) MDs have used them as supporting instruments but I find its usage more extensive (tough time for the players:)) and more complete/precise in IR’s compositions.
  
  For ex: “Chinna mani ponnu mani” from Mallu Vetti Minor
  “Pudhiya poovidhu poothadhu” from Thendralae Ennai Thodu.
  
  Take any song of IR at random and you are most likely to find such guitars playing their parts in the background in a low volume. This seems to be the case even in the recent “Un kuththamaa” from Azhagi and “AthoraththilE” from Kaasi.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 64.173.9.74) on: Mon Feb 18 15:40:50 EST 2002
  
  Vicky, thanks for your input in this and other threads. I think, I understand what you are talking about IR and ARR's approach. I would likto add my observations on 'ambient' sounds. I remember a poster's comments on Sheila Chandra's work - she is trying to make indian classical ambient whereas it is by design ambient. I concur with this opinion Indian Classical style singing itself is ambient. Regarding the orchestration, I think IR use electric guitar, acoustic guitar vibes, choral/string backdrops, dont these count as 'ambient' sounds ? (I was listening to solla thudikkathu manasu and it sounded pretty ambient to me). Vicky, dont think I am disagreeing with your but would like to hear from you. Earlier, rjay, used to use the term 'tightly-coupled' and 'loosely-coupled' for IR and ARR's style.
  
  (Sam, where are you ?)
  
  

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