Topic started by Shanmugam Murugappan (@ ifmxmenlo.informix.com) on Thu Dec 3 16:32:36 EST 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
Hi all,
I just surfed thro' the net and happened to see the profile of PS. She was heralded as the "Lata Mangeshkar" of TFM. Does she deserve that crown more than SJ and Chithra?
Responses:
- Old responses
- From: Srinath (@ 66.26.60.94)
on: Thu Feb 22 23:06:45 EST 2001
karthi, man you amaze me :-) Do you have some sort of 'translocator' in this thread that brings you here everytime I say something about PS ;-)
rajaG, I was just checking up the OR, and guess what ! I have pointed out another example from "Kadalora Kavithaigal" :-) So much for your example...nyaah ! ;-)
- From: karthi (@ 63.21.180.178)
on: Thu Feb 22 23:25:15 EST 2001
Srinath,
"Basically I am not very fond of the songs that she has sung well (nothing to do with her singing)"
-- What do you mean? Sariyaana pEthalaa irukku! En? PS nalla paadinaa ungaLukku pidikkaadhaa?
"I have a very poor opinion about PS' ability to sing the kind of songs that I like"
-- You are right. "You" are poor in your opinion, PS is not poor in her abilitiy. Come on, I really have to know, WHAT KIND OF SONGS DO YOU REALLY LIKE?
"When SPB sings "Pesa koodaathu" to PS...he probably means it"
-- Probably you expected a "cheap mukkal" here, which ofcourse, only SJ could have provided, of which you would have been all praise for her no doubt!
"those songs that I do like (IR's, as if I have to explain !) she has sung real bad....I like only a handful of songs that PS has sung for IR....'Karpoora Bommai Ondru' and 'Ther Kondu Sendravan' being two of them"
-- this makes it very clear about your taste for music. If you said you didn't like PS singing "Kannan Oru Kaikkuzhandhai" or "kaathOdu Poovurasa"...well, as I said I can't comment about your taste!
What I can comment on is your usage of words like "PS drones" etc. SJ may be your best singer inspite of
"The note may not be perfect, the pronunciation may not be correct and the word might not be decipherable"! But to you "that hardly matters"!
If the above is true, then what are you listening songs for? That I can hardly imagine!
"What I like of SJ's singing is restricted to the songs she has sung for IR...yeah, one track mind, I know...atleast I'm consistent !"
-- So, you mean to say the credit for bringing out the best (according to you) in SJ goes to IR and not SJ, right? And to brag that you are "consistent" shows how narrow minded you are!
Lastly, "Mookaala padaradhu, naakaala paadaradhu is nondi saaku"
-- pinna vera eppadi paadaradhaam?
- From: karthi (@ 63.21.180.178)
on: Thu Feb 22 23:32:19 EST 2001
Uyarndha_Ullam! SPB pronunciation kolai paNNa songs list vENumaa? Unga email kodunga, anuppi vekkarEn! Pronunciation porutha mattil exception-nu yaarumE illai!
- From: Srinath (@ 66.26.60.94)
on: Thu Feb 22 23:42:25 EST 2001
karthi:
You forgot your Ritalin again...
- From: Ajith (@ 203.197.174.60)
on: Thu Feb 22 23:45:48 EST 2001
helo,
PS is a good singer I agree but.
She used to sing like a "kili pillai"
(no modulations, no sangathees)
Chitra is doing well. But her Uchharippu
she used to pronounce "rAgam" as "rAham"
getting award is not a great thing
Being a malayali she got 11 con state awards(kerala)
Last month SPB gave an interview for Podhgai TV
He had got idea of sangathees from SJ
She used to gave maximum perfection
We can find lot of sangathees in SJ songs
- From: sk (@ 172.133.147.24)
on: Fri Feb 23 00:01:52 EST 2001
PS is the Isaikkuyil of yesteryears
SJ is the Isaikkuyil for the past 2 decades.
SJ rocks for all type of songs ranging from duet to dappaanguthu songs. No one else can match her voice.
- From: sk (@ 172.133.147.24)
on: Fri Feb 23 00:03:09 EST 2001
typo in my last messg
PS was the Isaikkuyil of yesteryears
- From: Kupps (@ 156.153.255.250)
on: Fri Feb 23 00:19:05 EST 2001
a different thread from IR v/s ARR or should i say
a thread different from IR v/s ARR? :-)
anyway the info. you people provide are very nice and helpful.
- From: sk@132 (@ 137.132.3.8)
on: Fri Feb 23 00:56:04 EST 2001
sk@172:
What you wrote in your first posting..
PS IS the Isaikkuyil..
is very right.
- From: Rajesh Kumar (@ 198.151.230.253)
on: Fri Feb 23 04:12:12 EST 2001
hei PS is kilipillaya?? People will Laugh..
Take Mannavan Vandhanadi...
Take Sonnadhu neethana
Take Chittukuruvi mutham koduthu
Take Karpoora Bommai ondru
is all same type
And also Naanga pudhusa kattikitaa for dappanguthu..
She can sing any Type Of Song
There is atypical therukoothu song for Shivaji+Savitri
In which PS has Done full justice(exactly how a Therukkothu woman will sing)
PS IS/WAS/WILL b the EVERLASTING ISAIKUYIL..
No second Thought Abt that..
and For Ur Kind information.. In 1969 National award for Female Playback singer was introduced and the award went to PS for athan yennathan
which LAta mageshkar Said She also could not sing
as sweet as PS
- From: TNS (@ 203.199.237.20)
on: Fri Feb 23 08:44:15 EST 2001
IR an ardent admirer of S.J. has used P.S. for very stylish and unconventional tune.
Mella Mella ENNAI thottu...VAZHLKAI
Darling Darling....Priya
En Kanmani Ilamangani....Chittukuruvi
Dil DIL Manadil...Mella Thirandhadu Kadhavu
Manjakuruvi,Manjakuruvi...Pickpocket...
Listen to these very different songs of IR...P.S's vesatality will amaze you...TNS
- From: One_cent_worth (@ 202.86.168.81)
on: Fri Feb 23 09:49:03 EST 2001
Kaarthi
I guess as far as pronounciation is concerned, nobody can find any fault with Vani.
SJ - I guess she is the one who has to her credit
equal number of good and bad songs . In some of the songs her voice is "unsahikable"
- From: Shanmugam (@ 63.101.96.1)
on: Fri Feb 23 10:41:10 EST 2001
rAjesh kumAr,
I think "nAnga puthusa kattikkitta" was sung by LRE and not PS.
- From: TNS (@ 203.199.231.220)
on: Fri Feb 23 11:07:54 EST 2001
nAnga puthusa...from..oli vilakku by TMS-PS....
tns
- From: karthi (@ 63.21.181.218)
on: Fri Feb 23 23:09:42 EST 2001
What do you mean by "Ritalin" srinath? Nallaa thittara vaarthaiyaa?
- From: phanindar (@ 63.44.146.48)
on: Sat Feb 24 00:33:07 EST 2001
why should we call PS as 'Lata Mangeshkar of South India'?....PS is great in her own way...
With due respect to Lata, PS had her days when no one could sing like her in all the South Indian languages...My view is SJ is technically very sound espeacially her vocal range, sangathis and swara gnanam...Both these singers are boon to TFM.....
- From: ajith (@ )
on: Thu Mar 8 06:59:20 EST 2001
yah it is correct
Do not say that PS is the one and only talented Singer.
- From: aruvi (@ 209.112.23.23)
on: Thu Mar 8 16:40:46 EST 2001
Unmai
PS and SJ are certainly talented singers. They have proved their worth, no doubt. But saying that they are on a pedestal and that they cannot be matched by Chithra or others is biased. This may sound banal but in reality, people will always say old is gold. Not necessarily factual but the heart rules over the mind for most. In my understanding, gems can be found in all periods. Admittedly, in the earlier years the there were opulent songs to be categorized as such. Primarily, I believe that was do to the fact that lyrics were given more importence than music. The complexity of music in the earlier days, be it composition-wise or technical-wise, was ordinary. Even in the times of MS Viswanathan, who is the only member of the period that I am vastly familiar with, there was not much to say about the instrumental complexity of the songs. The lyrics and situation was what mattered. Sure, Mr. MSV has given unforgettable gems, but they shine out mostly due to there wonderful melody and impressionable lyrics. Can anyone imagine a song of the nature of Satti suddathada in todays films. Such lyrical structure can't be tried in this day simply because it won't sell. PS and SJ had the advantage in that they were simply there when these gems were created. Moreover, what other form of entertainment did they have in those days except to listen to songs on the radio. The constant exposure that people had to these songs highlighted the careers of older day singers. Even if their singing was not exceptional, they would have been remembered.
Illayaraja brought into the field compositions of par excellence. Not just in the entire songs but he impressed in small instrumental pieces too, like the guitar bit in 'Raja raja chozhan naan'. And he brought diversity. He strayed from the prevailing form of film music and brought folk, western, jazz etc. But with this, we saw the decline of PS in TFM. It is questionable if that was only due to IR's constant reliance and promotion of Janaki. Surely, PS was great, and still is, but can she have equaled Janaki in delivering the rather freaky numbers of IR's. I am not referring to wonderful melodies such as 'kaatril enthan geetham' but to numbers like the ever-popular aariraaro from Munthanai mudichu. Or would the listeners have excepted such a number from Susheela. Factwise, Susheela may have sung seductive numbers but definitely the boldness that prevailed in songs in the 80's and now was not present then. Even 'Nakkal' songs were done with dignity in those days. I for one don't think that Susheela could have worked for such songs. Even the popular number she sang for Rahman kannukku mai azhagu is a typical PS song. Only the technical perfection was added. Janaki's strength is her ability to do those freaky numbers. The melodious songs that Janaki has done could be done by anyone, be it PS or Chithra. Denial will certainly come from SJ fans, but that is only because they associate SJ's voice with those numbers.
There's always the question of who is the ultimate. Who masters in all the areas? There is no one. SJ has her misgivings as does PS and I have always admitted that Chithra was not as versatile as SJ. At least, she didn't get the chance to do such freaky numbers and so I will never know. But unquestionably, I believe that she is very good. Even eclipsing both in some issues. As far as the matter of sweet voice is concerned, we are all going to have our individual opinion depending on taste. Mine is definitely not biased. I do believe that Chithra has the best voice. And as far as carnatic numbers are concerned, she does perform better than her predecessors. Some may claim that she is trained in the field but the truth is that even PS has studied carnatic music far more than Chithra. I have read an article where she mentioned that she had studied carnatic music and had done concerts. Chithra, as she herself admits, still has not studied it to the level of giving a concert, but still I find that her renditions are far more impressive. This may not seem validable to those that solely listen to tamil music but if you have listened to her malayala numbers you will know.
Futhermore, there seems to be constant picking on her tamil diction. I can't understand if this is due to the lack of issues to fault her at or if people can't come past the issue. We have all agreed(at least, past participants in the thread) that all three singers had dictation errors in some songs at the beginning of their career. But for a few songs in the initial and upcoming years, I have not heard any faults in her diction. Even in her first few songs, there are no errors. I don't hear anything wrong in songs from poove poochudava and sinthu bhairavi. To go on, I can't name another non-tamil singer in the past decade who has as clear diction as she. As even Kanchana pointed out, while someone said that 'Kanaalane' song had diction errors, there was clearly none. I don't want to use the excuse of in this day of purposely mispronouncing and even tamils such as Devan, Suresh Peters, ARR, Harini, Hariharan etc, can't dictate acurately; simply because I think that the question of Chithra's diction being imperfect is unwarranted in the thread at this point. Do we constantly slander SJ by the fact that not only in her initial days but in a lot of her songs she stresses the sh sound? We don't. So why then bring Chithra into the question. An artist flourishes as time passes. As did PS, SJ, ARR, IR, SPB, KJY etc. Even KJY was blasted for his diction in some songs, but he pointed out that the MD did not correct him. We are judging the ability of an artist from present day view of that artist.
I am not here to question the positions of PS or SJ. My frank statement is, people have to learn to give acceptance. To gain acceptance is pretty hard in any field but an artist has the worst time. People claim that PS sang innumerable songs and her songs come out with great feeling. But as I stated before, there are many numbers by other artist in that line, including SJ. I had stated Swarnalatha's name and people thought I was ridiculing PS/SJ. Well, the fact remains that Swarna does sing like so. Just listen to numbers like malaiyil yaaro, poorale ponnuthaiye, yeavano oruvan and several other solo songs by the girl. She is one person with great singing talent who has been ignored by the music field.
Someone, I can't recall who, had stated that Chithra didn't have the record to be compared with SJ and PS. When given the track record, someone else rebutted that saying track record was not enough for her credit. Then there was the question of recognition. When told that she had a more impressive record there as well, there was the question of quick fame. I do realize that she came into the field with the superhit Poove poochudava which overshadowed her debut film. But it took Sindhu Bhairavi to get her noticed. I don't know about the malayalam industry, although I hear that it was only Nokketha doorathu kannum nattu that did wonders for her career. But even that was achieved through time. You people make it sound as though she were a female Unnikrishnan. I reckon someone will say that she didn't have competition. There's always competition in every field. The question is if the competitors will surpass you. She had more competitors than anyone else if you are talking about the tamil field. Sunantha, Jency, Devi, SP Sailaja, and not to mention Janaki along with the countless(nameless) others. It was just her luck or fate that she made it. Of course, no one without the talent can survive with just luck. So there is no question of getting the easy way in. Frankly, to me, it seems as though SJ or PS would have had a easier time considering the period in which they came to the field. Who was willing to come into cinema in the those days? People thought it disrespectful. It was only in the latter days that all the glitter and glamour fell on cinema.
What more can I say? It is quite evident that this is a subjective issue as has been pointed out many times. Whatever debates we use, the bottom line is that opinion more than fact will always be the heart of this thread. And therefore, I end saying Chithra's the BEST.
- From: aruLaracan (@ 134.124.160.10)
on: Thu Mar 8 17:39:10 EST 2001
aruvi: :-) all i need is just one sentence. sujAthA is THE BEST. PS, SJ, KSC all are only second to her. (did i forget to include lathA in the "seconds" list?)
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