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ARR's Motivation, Strategy & Ingenuity different from IR's and outlasts KR's or YSR's

Topic started by Raja Fan (@ 172.173.66.66) on Tue Oct 16 02:05:01 EDT 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I have only just a few days back heard Puthiya Mugam and Thiruda, Thiruda songs with pure attention for the first time. Believe it or not! It has changed my perception of ARR totally. However, i also became eager to explore most of his other compositions. Did not get the consistency that TT/PM must have heralded. Most of the songs of other movies beside a few classic works were kind or random attempts at coming up with some trump card or ace up the sleeve, classic songs like Puthum Pudhu Vendum, Netru Illadha Maatram, Kannum Kannum, Raasathi spilleth over with originality, energy, innovation and universal appeal. And, there are many songs that appear to be amalgams of various romantic ballads (best example is: Arisal Tharisal in Taj Mahal), pop hits, waltzes, spanish tango, our own old Tamil classic songs, bits from a old Hindi song, the underlying theme was what motivates ARR to be what he is, either amazing originality and universal appeal or cut and paste tactics. And, how ARR's music sound so original overall and seems to have totally antiquated every other Indian film music? And, also why did not IR have the same strategies and ingenuity as ARR as explained above? What was IR's motivation and how is ARR's Ingenuity much more necessary for success in today's than IR's creativity (original of all original composers) and why do KR and YSR lag behind heavily in their ability to amaze the audience like ARR does. I will give outline of my analysis of ARR' approach: First of all, we must not forget that ARR had huge international exposure (and to very up and coming genres world-wide) at a very early age when IR at the age was performing in folk programs across south India. So, he knew to what sounds international audience do not squirm in their seats! Plus, his audience base was international then and there. IR, KR & YSR did not have that grounding at all in my understanding. There basically tells you about what ARR is composed of. His motivation? He wants the richness of Indian film music appreciated world wide. His ingenuity: the ability to accept for himself that he can kick the age-old belief of all Indian composers that being original is the best modus operandi for sustained creativity. ARR turned that upside down and said I love a lot of music, why not incorporate that or use those to develop different variations of those melodies (the TK Mahalingam classic in Jodi is an example)ARR has done that in an ongoing basis as I am checking out most of his songs, I find so much familiar material!!!!!! IR, MSV and others would have shuddered at the thought of doing what ARR. This is ARR's strategy along with the thought that music can be more simple with less notes in the main melody, very strong melody structure so that does aaway with the need for interludes etc.. IR himself has once said that if the melody is good then he would not waste too much time on interludes and preludes! (But, he practiced that very rarely even for excellent melodies, he had extraordinary interludes just the same he gave for insipid melodies) There is so much I am discovering about ARR and it is very inspiring because I too would do the same today. As Anuradha Sriram once said that with the right background anyone can become an ARR and IR. However, I disagree that anyone can become an IR (Lalgudi said, IR is culmination of countless births living in music!!) Even though IR's motivation did not have such a national or global scale as ARR's IR belief was in originality. His western classical influence did not show as Mozart or Bach in his songs, but ARR's do. His music has Beethoven, Vivaldi maybe some Opera works or other classical composers! So is another ARR possible? Yes, very possible. (Just follow this strategy of turning all accepted beliefs and standards upside down coupled with extraordinary exposure you can be an ARR.) In fact, I believe ARR is only the beginning of a cultural musical phenomena maybe could be called the Enlightened Mod Rhythm era or something we are going to witness in the decades to come. Just as IR was the end of the era of 50 or so years of a final stage of the Melodic Romance Period of Indian Film Music by combining all styles heralding a new age phenomenon called Ilayaraaja style!! Any opinions about ARR' Strategy, Ingenuity and Motivation versus IRs? And, do you think KR and YSR match up at all with ARR's ingenuity, because they do not apparently have the motivation and strategy as ARRs? If anyone knows their opinions on ARR's cut and paste songs, please input here. I have to hear some more lefft out movies.. so i will fill in. This is not ARR and IR debate, please please note. This is only what IR missed out in motivation and what ARR will be able to achieve in the future based on his past and other issues discussed above. In fact, I am an ARR Fan already!!!!!

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: a (@ 12.78.131.198) on: Tue Oct 16 16:45:24 EDT 2001
  
  It's utter nonsense to compare ARR and IR on every debate....Definetely newtfmpage will lose
  it's viewers. Please change the topic and try
  to introduce something new and innovative....
  
  
• From: a (@ 12.78.131.198) on: Tue Oct 16 16:46:26 EDT 2001
  
  It's utter nonsense to compare ARR and IR on every debate....Definetely newtfmpage will lose
  it's viewers. Please change the topic and try
  to introduce something new and innovative....
  
  
• From: WCM (@ 136.167.202.201) on: Tue Oct 16 17:07:38 EDT 2001
  
  As a long time listener of Western classical music and as well as being a student of western classical music I have a few issues with the quote.
  
  "His western classical influence did not show as Mozart or Bach in his songs, but ARR's do. His music has Beethoven, Vivaldi maybe some Opera works or other classical composers! "
  
  Where do we see influence of Beethovan in AR? and Opera? And how do you say IR does not show the influencesof Mozart and Bach? I somehow disagree with this.
  To show influences of these great WCM composers requires a composer to show depth of arrangement, orchestration, harmony, dynamics etc.
  Reg Pudiya Mugam - the "putham pudhi bhoomi song" has some vocal harmonic parts clearly taken from some CD samplers/loops. I agree that it is definitely a very nicely produced song, and AR has sampled the sounds well. But to compose showing influences of WCM is another cup of tea. For eg Enigma(a pop group) who used Gregorian chants in their techo-dance songs are sampling "medieval music" - not composing rather cutting & pasting. It would be silly to give much more credit to Enigma.
  Reg rhythm - using a wide range of drum samples doesn't make for great rhythm use. If that were true "Carnatic music" would not stand today as one of most rhythmically complete form of music with over 100 kinds of beats cycles/talas. If you notice carefully, most AR songs are in 4/4 with very few synchopations.
  
  
  
• From: yaaro (@ 195.93.34.168) on: Tue Oct 16 18:01:03 EDT 2001
  
  as another longterm listener of WCM, it was IR who opened my doors to this fantastic world.this has only made me realise the depth of IR's music.as lalgudi said, IR's creativity is fruition of countless lives in musical traditions.
  
  
• From: rf (@ 172.158.72.136) on: Wed Oct 17 00:17:23 EDT 2001
  
  WCM, i think like Madhan you missed the point, but u got it right with analogy of enigma. it is simply this, IR did not copy any western classical pieces, every thousand phrases IR did was his own and masterpieces. ARR' no malice to his attempts, is a classic guy himself but whatever pieces of orchestrated stuff hhis songs have are either Beethoven sounds and pieces of Vivalid or some opera stuff direct lift off!!!! not his original compositions okay let them sound like Beethoven or Vivaldi as long as it is ARR' original piece. I will get back with the instances. Again, I have only deep regard and utmost joy when hearing ARR's music but if you got to produce that kind of exhilirating and real ingenuine works you cannot be IR with solid principles but u got to let loose and be open minded about your limitations and how much you can explore your talents withint those boundaries. ARR is indeed very humble in letting it known that he is indeed copying but doing a much better job using the originals or developing the originals. So, by influence i meant direct lifting in this context sorry for the wrong interpretation. But, again ARR is doing it right. He is learning by experimenting this way. So, I think in another 10 years he may come close to IR himself with a steady style of his own thru a rigorous process of sampling, travelling, trying new genres. i see it happening. And, it for the benefit of Indian music to encourage this talented young man, ARR.
  
  
• From: Madhav (@ 62.7.89.94) on: Wed Oct 17 03:38:32 EDT 2001
  
  rf,
  I agree with you totally and like I stated,I too give ARR credit for his music.ARR did start a new trend in TFM which I will never deny, but not all people are as accomdating as this. How many threads have you seen bashing IR and in turn KR and YSR for being his sons? People don't give them a fair chance for their talent to bloom because of preconcieved notions that they are IR's children. My point is that YSR is one of the best MD's at present due to his original style. I think that he too can contribute something great to TFM or introduce a new trend such as ARR did.
  DOn't get me wrong, I know that ARR is lifting samples from songs but I have to give him all due credit for doing it well. He still manages to produce a song that is melodious and different. But the main point of discussion here was about how ARR's strategy, ingenuity and motivation outlast KR and YSR.On this point, I think it is a complete mis-statement. I feel it is too early to say that ARR will outlast KR or YSR. ARR is already starting to move onto pastures greener and is not producing the quality music he did at the start and peak of his career. Now I feel ARR is just doing it for the sake of doing it and doesn't put the time and effort into his songs. I remeber when Thalam was released, there was not a single person who did not buy the cd that I knew of. But after a short break from ARR and since the release of Thenaali, the music quality dropped. People started to wake up and realise that ARR was not delivering. ARR used to be the number one position in all the charts, but now he is just within the top 5. I find it totally absurd to see the HJ is the person keeping ARR off the no.1 spot.
  YSR has done a great job with his music.He has started to introduce new and innovative music into TFM.I feel that he has the potential to outlast ARR in TFM.This doesn't mean compete with ARR but more, to last longer in TFM. I don't think YSR is given a fair chance at all because if you consider the quality of his music over the past 3 years, you will see that for such a young guy, he has got a great talent that has produced many hit numbers. His only disadvantage in TFM is that he is not given a break by bigger directors and he ends up doing great songs for awful movies. Well Nandha is releasing this weekend, so we can see the true diversity of his talent.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on: Wed Oct 17 15:51:45 EDT 2001
  
  KS, I like your theory on the song duration !!.
  
  
• From: KS (@ 165.122.129.199) on: Wed Oct 17 16:22:25 EDT 2001
  
  kiru, thanks! i'm glad it made some sense to somebody like you:)
  
  

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