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ARR's Motivation, Strategy & Ingenuity different from IR's and outlasts KR's or YSR's

Topic started by Raja Fan (@ 172.173.66.66) on Tue Oct 16 02:05:01 EDT 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I have only just a few days back heard Puthiya Mugam and Thiruda, Thiruda songs with pure attention for the first time. Believe it or not! It has changed my perception of ARR totally. However, i also became eager to explore most of his other compositions. Did not get the consistency that TT/PM must have heralded. Most of the songs of other movies beside a few classic works were kind or random attempts at coming up with some trump card or ace up the sleeve, classic songs like Puthum Pudhu Vendum, Netru Illadha Maatram, Kannum Kannum, Raasathi spilleth over with originality, energy, innovation and universal appeal. And, there are many songs that appear to be amalgams of various romantic ballads (best example is: Arisal Tharisal in Taj Mahal), pop hits, waltzes, spanish tango, our own old Tamil classic songs, bits from a old Hindi song, the underlying theme was what motivates ARR to be what he is, either amazing originality and universal appeal or cut and paste tactics. And, how ARR's music sound so original overall and seems to have totally antiquated every other Indian film music? And, also why did not IR have the same strategies and ingenuity as ARR as explained above? What was IR's motivation and how is ARR's Ingenuity much more necessary for success in today's than IR's creativity (original of all original composers) and why do KR and YSR lag behind heavily in their ability to amaze the audience like ARR does. I will give outline of my analysis of ARR' approach: First of all, we must not forget that ARR had huge international exposure (and to very up and coming genres world-wide) at a very early age when IR at the age was performing in folk programs across south India. So, he knew to what sounds international audience do not squirm in their seats! Plus, his audience base was international then and there. IR, KR & YSR did not have that grounding at all in my understanding. There basically tells you about what ARR is composed of. His motivation? He wants the richness of Indian film music appreciated world wide. His ingenuity: the ability to accept for himself that he can kick the age-old belief of all Indian composers that being original is the best modus operandi for sustained creativity. ARR turned that upside down and said I love a lot of music, why not incorporate that or use those to develop different variations of those melodies (the TK Mahalingam classic in Jodi is an example)ARR has done that in an ongoing basis as I am checking out most of his songs, I find so much familiar material!!!!!! IR, MSV and others would have shuddered at the thought of doing what ARR. This is ARR's strategy along with the thought that music can be more simple with less notes in the main melody, very strong melody structure so that does aaway with the need for interludes etc.. IR himself has once said that if the melody is good then he would not waste too much time on interludes and preludes! (But, he practiced that very rarely even for excellent melodies, he had extraordinary interludes just the same he gave for insipid melodies) There is so much I am discovering about ARR and it is very inspiring because I too would do the same today. As Anuradha Sriram once said that with the right background anyone can become an ARR and IR. However, I disagree that anyone can become an IR (Lalgudi said, IR is culmination of countless births living in music!!) Even though IR's motivation did not have such a national or global scale as ARR's IR belief was in originality. His western classical influence did not show as Mozart or Bach in his songs, but ARR's do. His music has Beethoven, Vivaldi maybe some Opera works or other classical composers! So is another ARR possible? Yes, very possible. (Just follow this strategy of turning all accepted beliefs and standards upside down coupled with extraordinary exposure you can be an ARR.) In fact, I believe ARR is only the beginning of a cultural musical phenomena maybe could be called the Enlightened Mod Rhythm era or something we are going to witness in the decades to come. Just as IR was the end of the era of 50 or so years of a final stage of the Melodic Romance Period of Indian Film Music by combining all styles heralding a new age phenomenon called Ilayaraaja style!! Any opinions about ARR' Strategy, Ingenuity and Motivation versus IRs? And, do you think KR and YSR match up at all with ARR's ingenuity, because they do not apparently have the motivation and strategy as ARRs? If anyone knows their opinions on ARR's cut and paste songs, please input here. I have to hear some more lefft out movies.. so i will fill in. This is not ARR and IR debate, please please note. This is only what IR missed out in motivation and what ARR will be able to achieve in the future based on his past and other issues discussed above. In fact, I am an ARR Fan already!!!!!

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on: Tue Oct 16 11:39:12 EDT 2001
  
  Interesting, 'Raja Fan' has touched upon some critical factors in the working style of ARR. I do not agree with him totally. Here is my reasoning - IR once called today's music or POP music as 'plastic' music. Let me use this to describe POP music. It looks cute, nice to hear but does not make a lasting impression.
  
  ARR does come up with very nice tunes. The tune has to be extended over a full song. But in order to make the song catchy the whole song is built around a rhythm. The rhythm is the most important ingredient. The phrases of notes are held together by the rhythm. If you are not hearing the rhythm (like recollecting the song in mind) anything other than the first few lines of the pallavi maybe difficult to recollect. But remember the song itself will be catchy and good while listening (along with the rhythm) . Contrast this with the traditional approach, the tune is there even in the charanams. This is the reason why people say if you are using a rAgam for a song you should stick to the rAgam throughout. This is a restriction composers like ARR will find it difficult to stick to, to provide a catchy/rhythmic song. (I am not that knowledgeable in music I would like to hear from savvy people on this).
  
  I am impressed very much with ARR's commercial success. I am impressed with the fan following he has. I am impressed with the quality of recording and variety in style/rhythm he has brought to TFM/IFM. But I will stop short of comparing him with the genius of IR.
  
  
• From: Fliflo (@ 146.186.113.254) on: Tue Oct 16 12:05:30 EDT 2001
  
  Madhav;
  
  Nice. How did you forget to mention about Deva at all. I presume he is the No. 1 MD in tamil music if we go by no. of hit songs
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.230) on: Tue Oct 16 12:47:24 EDT 2001
  
  "It looks cute, nice to hear but does not make a lasting impression."
  
  ARR's song makes a lasting and deep impression on me.I think that's the case with other music fans(atleast ARR fans) too.
  BTW, I would like to know what "POP" music is in terms of what it is (rather than the effect it creates)actually before saying today's music is POP or not.
  
  "IR once called today's music or POP music as 'plastic' music. "
  
  That must have hurt YSR and KR a Great deal!I feel sorry for them that their dad considers their music "plastic".
  
  
• From: KS (@ 165.122.129.199) on: Tue Oct 16 13:12:13 EDT 2001
  
  Trend,
  IR was referring to the current general trend:)
  
  
• From: Madhav (@ 62.7.114.147) on: Tue Oct 16 15:10:14 EDT 2001
  
  FLiflo, I didn't mention Deva because he wasn't mentioned in the above postings. But you are correct, Deva should be a bigger MD than ARR. I don't understand ho wpeople can say that Deva is a copycat but HJ is a great MD? ARR lifts songs subtly and stylishly in the hope that nobody will recognise the lifts, but HJ is worse than Deva. Deva although is know for his copying, does produce some original music once in a while.This is something that we are yet to see from HJ.
  When poeple say that HJ is better than YSR they show their ignorance because HJ is not a MD,he is a DJ. YSR can produce new and innovative albums, but HJ will just be producing ARR's greatest hits.
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.230) on: Tue Oct 16 15:14:18 EDT 2001
  
  KS,
  
  Does that mean KR and YSR are outside the current general trend?I think maybe he said "today's music or POP music as 'plastic' music with the exception of KR and YSR".
  
  
• From: KS (@ 165.122.129.199) on: Tue Oct 16 15:16:36 EDT 2001
  
  did u notice that most of ARR's songs are more than 5 mins. for that matter, so r songs of other MDs of today. However, most of IR's songs r less than 5 mins. ever wonder why?:)
  
  
• From: KS (@ 165.122.129.199) on: Tue Oct 16 15:19:15 EDT 2001
  
  no trend. u were right. he wanted and will want them to do better.
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.230) on: Tue Oct 16 15:38:07 EDT 2001
  
  KS,
  
  Digression:
  
  "However, most of IR's songs r less than 5 mins. ever wonder why?:)"
  
  IR thinks attention span of his fans are less.Just kidding.:)
  
  
• From: rf (@ 152.163.197.186) on: Tue Oct 16 15:43:05 EDT 2001
  
  Madhan, a true music lover is not a fanatic of just one composer. I have many composers that i like and IR stands out even after ARR's Pudhiya Mugam/Thiruda Thiruda though I am quite perturbed by IR missing out on ideas brought out by ARR! IR can do it even today and do it better than ARR if IR sets his mind and say i will compete with the information about music i have from ARR! Nothing wrong. But IR won't do it, because it is against his vibes or philosophy! And, that is music' loss not IR' or his fans. About YSR, he has got it. KR is original and is IR in a youthful mode, shows you how IR would sound without being open minded like ARR! But listen, IR has contempt for pop or plastic music because he did not grow up listening to this trend. It was disco, classical, jazz and rock at that time and Tamizh folk all the way.
  
  
• From: KS (@ 165.122.129.199) on: Tue Oct 16 16:09:44 EDT 2001
  
  coming to those "5 mins.":)...
  i think rhythm being more imp. for ARR, by the time the tune starts, is played again and agian so that u get into the mood of it, the pallavi and charanams are over and the song stops (& u come out of it:)) it obviously takes more than 5 mins.
  
  but with IR, as rhythm being of secondary imp. the song (after the prelude) generally starts much sooner. he can also create the required mood for the song much sooner (his talent!). "chinna maharani" from Kutti is an ex. for IR's unrhythmic rhythm (as i like to call it). the percussion for the pallavi doesn't seem to be very rhythmic but is different and suits the song and the song starts sooner. "poo arumbuthu" from Kutti is an ex. as to how soon he can create the reqired mood for a song and start off.
  
  hence, most of IR's songs are < 5 mins. but others' songs are usually > 5 mins.
  
  
• From: KS (@ 165.122.129.199) on: Tue Oct 16 16:16:42 EDT 2001
  
  of course, same is applicable to the interludes and hence...
  
  (btw, hope u don't consider this a digression. i think this can fit into the "strategy" part!!)
  
  

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