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COPYING - IN TAMIL FILM HISTORY

Topic started by s.senthilkumar (@ 203.197.154.163) on Mon Jan 24 07:23:36 EST 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

i think "copying" is there for a long time in tamil film history.Here we discuss the tamil songs copied from others.

For a compilation of copied/inspired songs: http://copied.newtfmpage.com

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Pradeep (@ 203.199.12.50) on: Thu Aug 8 02:54:41 EDT 2002
  
  Hi Jibi
  
  I do agree when u say that TFM songs r heard by other language listeners too. But u cannot deny the copies which i have listed . i think they r too glaring to let go. I never said that TFM MDs do not copy .....When u have people lifting ur stuff, obviously u r more talented! I don't think u there can be any qualms abt that!
  
  
• From: Pradeep (@ 203.199.12.50) on: Thu Aug 8 02:55:25 EDT 2002
  
  Sorry abt the multiple posts........there is a porb with my server, I guess......
  
  
• From: punch (@ 61.11.73.84) on: Thu Aug 8 03:57:35 EDT 2002
  
  Baba theme music - the starting phrases played on the key board (organ tone) is very close/ same to the theme music of mera naam joker
  
  
• From: Karthik S (@ 164.164.82.29) on: Thu Aug 8 23:23:18 EDT 2002
  
  This is not a Tamil lift but since people were discussing Vidyasagar's music in Malayalam, here goes...
  
  Have added this particular song by Vidyasagar in the 2000 movie 'Millennium Stars' - 'Paryan nyaan marannu' - which has a very unique structure. The opening part of the song has a fast, catchy western tune, followed by part two which has a typical Malayalam flavour and the third part having a ghazal like feel with Hindi lyrics! Its a rather strange number and sung by KJ Yesudas, his son Vijay Yesudas and Hariharan. What's striking is the third part which has a ghazal-like tune. The tune is almost an exact rip-off of Hariharan's 1983 ghazal 'Jabse woh maahpara gaya' from his own album 'Sukoon'. Hariharan had composed music for Sukoon. I wonder
  how he agreed to sing this number by Vidyasagar which had ripped off his own ghazal!
  
  
• From: Pradeep (@ 203.199.12.50) on: Fri Aug 9 00:13:15 EDT 2002
  
  Another malayalam lift of Vidyasagar is for the song "Sandhosham theerkanume" ( I think the movie is Punjabi House") the opening lines r exactly the same as "Vandhaal Mahalakshmiye" from Uyarntha Ullam.
  
  
• From: jibi (@ 64.152.168.22) on: Fri Aug 9 00:42:11 EDT 2002
  
  prdeep the songs in punjabi house is composed by suresh peters not vidyasagar...
  
  
  
• From: Pradeep (@ 203.199.12.50) on: Fri Aug 9 01:57:43 EDT 2002
  
  jibi
  
  Tnanx for the info.....
  
  
• From: S (@ 128.107.253.40) on: Fri Aug 9 22:47:40 EDT 2002
  
  adhu confusion theerkaNumE, pradeep :-)
  
  
• From: kk (@ 172.129.29.172) on: Fri Aug 9 23:29:04 EDT 2002
  
  Karthik, I dont know how you site missed this one abt vidyasagar. Another karna song "mutham thara etha edam" was there in a bally sagoo album soes somehting like 'eh kudi hat kardee'.
  
  Any idea why 'boli vali ladki, khol there dil..' from some 90s hindi movies sounds like Bothai yeripoche? any common source?
  
  
• From: boss (@ 138.89.104.104) on: Sat Aug 10 22:59:29 EDT 2002
  
  kk,
  original Mutham thara etha edam is from the movie darr ( may be a common punjab source).
  Bothai yeri poche was the original.
  copy - boli vali ladki. Md - rajesh roshan
  movie sabse badi killadi.
  
  
• From: Aswathama (@ 68.58.127.57) on: Sat Aug 10 23:56:32 EDT 2002
  
  Deva's color faded, who is next ARR? You cannot stay in any field without originality and skills:
  
  http://www.kumudam.com/reporter/pg15.html
  
  
• From: ARR - kids need an icon. U made it (@ 172.149.198.70) on: Wed Aug 14 17:29:45 EDT 2002
  
  Just found listening to Erasure' Wonderland album:
  
  Bombay Dreams "Journey Home" inspired / I will say copied from Oh L'amour of Erasure!
  
  So, how many original hit songs has ARR after all composed?
  
  
• From: Vj (@ 61.11.80.133) on: Fri Aug 16 01:52:19 EDT 2002
  
  "Kaadhalenum thaervezhudhi" - kaadhalar dhinam .. sounds close to "kaanum neram idhudhaan idhudhaan vaa vaa vaa" - soora samhaaram. the above two songs also sound like "o janani, en swaram nee" - pudiya raagam as well as "moongil kaadugaley" - saamurai.
  
  
• From: nagappan (@ 210.186.46.76) on: Fri Aug 16 02:20:18 EDT 2002
  
  theme music 'dippu dippu' from movie BABA is just opening theme music from BATMAN
  
  
• From: The Chronic KP (@ 210.214.131.170) on: Fri Aug 16 03:40:39 EDT 2002
  
  "Enna Vilai Azhagey" from Kaadhalar Dhinam sounds like "Thanga Pathakkathin Mele.." from an old Shivaji's Movie.
  
  
  
• From: Mumbai Ramki (@ 203.197.24.195) on: Fri Aug 16 05:18:28 EDT 2002
  
  Al the sonsg in ULLATHAI alli thaa (karthick ,Ramba and music by sirpy ) are pure lifts from ARABIAN music ..Particularly the song nee mama is a perfect copy bit by bit .....ANd alagiyae laila is also copy ..The same song was copied in YES BOSS( Hindi Sharuk khan movie) ....
  
  
• From: sathya (@ 210.210.32.16) on: Fri Aug 16 08:53:49 EDT 2002
  
  hello,
  
  here are the list of songs which are copied from western music by ARR.in all the songs i listed here he copied the BGM for songs.
  song Film original
  
  album artist
  
  1." mukkala " - " kadhalan" onelove Dralban
  
  2."then merkku" - "karuthamma" "om rem ike" "
  
  3."oru poiyavadu" star
  "margazhi poove" may matham Enigma MCMXC
  "ennai kanavilaie" kaadal thesam" by enigma
  background music in many songs
  
  4."thanga thamarai " sister nancy
  minsara kanavu by sister nancy
  
  5."telephone mani" all that she wants
  indian by ace of base
  
  
  there are many more.i will mail them very soon.
  
  cheers,
  sathya
  
  
  
  
• From: Thiru (@ 63.169.243.35) on: Fri Aug 16 11:06:33 EDT 2002
  
  boss,
  mutham thara is direct lift from a punjabi song 'ishq tho kishiko mithao (or something like that...i dont know punjabi as well as hindi...so cant pronounce the exact words)' ... sathya the songs you have specified are not direct lifts or copied versions... The similarity are in the beats.. Is there any similarity in the tune or the music except for the beat? so u cant say that its copying... can you tell me from which song in Enigma's MCMX AD was the above songs inspired???
  
  Another song in hindi that was copied was 'Amma dekh ' in some movie of Jackie shroff which was directly from Dr.alban........
  
  
  
• From: Are Yaar (@ 203.197.141.186) on: Sat Aug 17 06:03:40 EDT 2002
  
  >>>The similarity are in the beats..
  
  To be precise many were commercially available loops. This has been told a lahk time now.
  
  
• From: Vj (@ 61.11.78.55) on: Thu Aug 22 00:43:20 EDT 2002
  
  so is adopting loops ok? if yes, whatz the big deal in critizing for taking a few tunes?
  
  
• From: Karthik S (@ 164.164.82.29) on: Thu Aug 22 02:13:47 EDT 2002
  
  Vj:
  
  That is not called 'adopting'. The tune is the most important part of a song, more so an Indian film song. That's the backbone. For a Yanni-like instrumental the criteria may be different but as far as Indian film songs are concerned its the tune. And its the combination of a tune, orchestration and lyrics that make a song.
  
  The loops are there for people to use. They are sold commercially and the sample loop CD also enables the composer to use it the way he wants with no clause for crediting the sample CD creator. These are more like add-ons to modern day composers. Its upto the composer how best he uses these. This is one way of composing and probably much more common in the West. In India many composers like ARR, Sandeep Chowta and Harris Jeyaraj use this pattern of composing for some of their songs.
  
  As far as tunes are concerned, there are no commercially available tune bank from which composers can pick and choose them. Tunes need a lot more of creativity in composition and thats how a composer is judged. So when a composer takes somebody else's tune either as-is or with modifications, it becomes mandatory that he credits the original composer. If he doesnt it simply means his creativity is dry.
  
  Loops do not make a song. Tunes do. Now do you see the difference? And their relative importance?
  
  
• From: ambleen (@ 202.95.121.98) on: Thu Aug 22 03:06:52 EDT 2002
  
  So therefore some go the commercial way ie. to choose from the 'beat bank' which makes their overall composition or actually the arrangement easier. While some, since there's no 'tune bank' had to resort to criminal activities....leave alone creativity :)
  
  
• From: Kupps (@ 156.153.255.134) on: Thu Aug 22 03:59:22 EDT 2002
  
  So when a composer takes somebody else's tune either as-is or with modifications, it becomes mandatory that he credits the original composer. If he doesnt it simply means his creativity is dry.
  
  Karthik S
  I guess, you would like NOT to link the acknowledgement (of tune taking) with the creativity. Even if one acknowledges and take the tune of other this doesn't mean that the taker has done it creatively.
  
  A composer takes tune of the original composer if:
  1) This Composer liked the tune very much and as a mark of tribute uses this tune into his composition.
  
  2) This composer's imagination is drying out and takes the tune of the original composer and uses in his tune.
  
  In earlier case, the composer's creativity is not drying out its just a kind of respect of other composer. Even if it is NOT acknowledged its OK. But, ofcourse, acknowledging this the good way of doing it.
  
  In the later case, even if acknowledgement is done this composer doesn't have much of originality.
  
  Then if this is the case, how to judge these two factors? IMHO, other tunes (prior and after) of this composer i.e. the track record shows what could be the motive of the composer while taking the tune.
  
  Infact, many a times, the composer, if has very good creativity and knowledge, as a mark of tribute, while taking others tune, would put on his/her stamp on the tune, makes much changes and does much improvisation in his/her own way. This is an indicator of NOT PLAGIARISM.
  
  
• From: Karthik S (@ 164.164.82.29) on: Thu Aug 22 04:54:03 EDT 2002
  
  ambleen:
  
  But isnt the sample a very small part of the overall arrangement? The complete arrangement has to be created. The loop probably provides a spark for the overall feel of the arrangement...isnt it?
  
  Kupps:
  
  Makes perfect sense. I suppose whenever a composer has taken a tune as a tribute, he speaks about it somewhere, in some way or other just to ensure people do not talk about it as a case of plagiarism. I've heard IR (or Kamal) talking about the origins of the Aboorva Sagotharargal number 'Pudhu mappillaikku', connecting it with an older classic. I'm sure the composer would want to make his appreciation for the earlier composer's track open one way or other.
  
  
• From: Karthik S (@ 164.164.82.29) on: Thu Aug 22 07:42:23 EDT 2002
  
  Here's an interesting compilation, even though it does not have anything to do with Indian music. This is from the Columbia Law School and is the Music Copyright Infringement Online Archive. The part from post 1980 might be of particular interest. Most instances include an audio clipping too! Check the ones pertaining to Andrew Lloyd Webber and Michael Jackson!
  
  http://library.law.columbia.edu/music_plagiarism/case_page.html
  
  

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