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Shankar-Jaikishan & Illyaraja

Topic started by Indian Music Fan (@ 204.50.249.133) on Fri Jun 1 12:15:20 EDT 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

SJ were certainly the most prolific and best MD's of their time. They were responsible for the most number of hits during their reign at the top. I think they can certainly match up to Illyaraja in terms of quality, quantity and versatality. If Jaikishan hadn't passed away in 71, they would have definetly ruled over RDB, LP or any other challenge that would have come their way in the future. They were legends and were very excellent. What do you guys think ??

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Vidhya (@ 206.216.1.3) on: Fri Jul 20 16:04:17 EDT 2001
  
  Arul: I agree with MS..
  musician refer paNNumbodhu, mudindhaal any web-page about him/her link kodungaL. I know that links don't exist for some musicians.
  This will just make the point more readable.
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ hqprxsrf02.autodesk.com) on: Fri Jul 20 16:47:54 EDT 2001
  
  Point noted!
  
  Read about Impressionism : http://www.oir.ucf.edu/wm/paint/glo/impressionism/
  
  Read about Debussy and Impressionism:
  http://www.gprep.org/~music/musikbok/chap15.html
  
  
  
• From: hihi:-) (@ psiphi.umsl.edu) on: Fri Jul 20 17:13:40 EDT 2001
  
  ms: i spelt the name wrong. it actually is schoenberg!!! schoenberg is/was not an unknown name. you night want to read the first few chapters of his book entitled "Theories of Harmony" (very hilarious to say the least :-) ). anyways, he caused havoc with his "atonal" composition (not polytonal - which is, hold your breath :-), stravinsky's forte, who was, would you believe it?, korsakov's student?; an aside: korsakov never liked his shehrazade! :-))) ) one can keep talking about these giants, but at the end of the day, when one goes to bed (and since i am not running after, around, any flashy ... :-)) - miserable failures-nA adhukku arththam aruLaracan :( ), one has to take refuge with makeba :-))).
  
  (pOthumA, innum vENumA?) i forgot to mention: some people know unknown names lik shankar-jaikishen, mohammad rafi; i know unknown names like schoenberg, saint saens, makeba, ... :-)
  
  you really made me laugh out loud; people in the lab looked at me like i suddenly lost it (i mean sanity :-) )
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.1.68) on: Fri Jul 20 17:14:28 EDT 2001
  
  Just a point here to be fair guys...heard a song on some program in Sahara where they play old film songs along with the titles of the composers..there was a black and white film and the composers were Shankar-Jaikishan (were they before IR's time ?)...it was a devotional number and judging by the melody - it was very classical and nicely arranged and very well strucutred and there was a harmony there...I say this because I dont want to form prejudiced opinions without giving a complete hearing to all of SJ's songs...but then the point is LV shouldn't waste his time bringing in this discussion into TFM..and we shouldn't also just form opinions without giving them a fair hearing...every composer has a positive and a negative side - nobody's perfect..
  
  
• From: MS (@ ch-1317.che.sc.edu) on: Fri Jul 20 18:32:36 EDT 2001
  
  AruL :-)
  
  I would like to quote the following:
  
  A plumber found out that hydrochloric acid was very effieicient in removing rust. He wrote to the bureau if using that is fine. An official wrote back:
  
  "the efficacy of the acid is indisputable but incompatible with metallic permanence".
  
  Plumber wrote back : "phew ! u thought so ! Even I thought it was a great idea ! thx !"
  
  Somebody at the bureau wrote back:
  
  "don't use hydrochloric acid. It corrodes pipes"
  
  So korsakov and kaarachEv would taste good on a platter, but I surely would want to have a cup of coffee alongside please :-)
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ hqprxsrf02.autodesk.com) on: Fri Jul 20 18:47:07 EDT 2001
  
  Kaarachev will taste good with coffee :)))
  
  
• From: KS (@ sreekanth.wcom.com) on: Fri Jul 20 18:50:34 EDT 2001
  
  SJ have given innumerable hits and have ruled the HFM industry for quiet a long time. They came more or less at the same time as MSV-TKR or even much earlier. They are like MSV-TKR+MSV to HF industry. And yes, nobody till date have probably surpassed them in terms of the no. of hits and melodies. They can probably be compared to SDB (Sachin Dev Burman) but certainly not to RDB and LP (as the thread suggests!!!).
  
  Quality-wise, SJ were certainly good but certainly not like IR. And yes, in terms of quantity, versatility and overall as a composer, especially, in terms of speed, beginning of songs, interludes, smooth/new/innovative end-of-interlude->begin-of-charanam (antara) and of course, BGM, complicated compositions, etc IR is certainly matchless in India. I personally feel, in some of the departments mentioned here, nobody can match up to him in the world. It is just that he has not got due recognition (from people, media, government etc) and moreover, he probably believes in letting things happen.
  
  (And yes, I have listened to lots of SJ, SDB, RDB, LP, Anu Malik, Anand-Milind, and also to a little of less recognised C. Ramachandra, Salil Chowdhary, Madan Mohan, Khayyam, Ravi, etc whom I prefer when it comes to HFM:-))
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ hqprxsrf02.autodesk.com) on: Fri Jul 20 19:03:39 EDT 2001
  
  Cosmician:
  Even PBS's "Kaalangalil Aval Vasantham" has harmony, and good arrangement. MSV's "Raajavin Paarvayil" had one of the best arrangements at that time (much before IR)...but seriously how many people in India know that? NI music was only popular, but very few people know how great is our own TFM music. I hope someone that mentioned SG as geniuses had listened to SG's songs himself (I am still wondering which "animal" song had a spark of genius).
  
  This is how our TFM forum looks...
  
  LV says: Blah Blah Blah...Amonkar, Bhaskar, etc..
  IMF puts a "Vs" in the ratio NI:SI
  ARR fans watch out for the word ARR in the context of IR and of course IR fans watch out for the contrary
  Few people ask questions but mostly spectators
  Sensible people don't talk
  Time conscious people never come to this page
  
  
  
  
  
• From: hihi:-) (@ psiphi.umsl.edu) on: Fri Jul 20 19:11:49 EDT 2001
  
  ms: :-))))
  
  swamiji: what are we type of people? insensible, time-unconscious people? ;-)
  
  
• From: Indian Music Fan (@ 204.50.249.133) on: Fri Jul 20 19:27:44 EDT 2001
  
  KS,
  
  When you said :
  
  They can probably be compared to SDB (Sachin Dev Burman) but certainly not to RDB and LP (as the thread suggests!!!).
  
  Did you mean SJ cannot be compared to RDB and LP because they are better than them or because RDB and LP are better than SJ ?. Just Curious !!
  
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ hqprxsrf02.autodesk.com) on: Fri Jul 20 21:14:36 EDT 2001
  
  hihi instead of calling that, we can call ourselves Non-LV, Non-IMF kind of people with little more sense and little more time consciousness :))
  
  
• From: pr (@ a060-0403.snfc.splitrock.net) on: Fri Jul 20 21:37:37 EDT 2001
  
  IMF, this is the limit now!!! If you are going to get started on the "SJ vs LP vs RDB vs SDB vs whoever" please start a new thread here
  http://www.hfmpage.com/forum/IMF
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.127.53) on: Sat Jul 21 01:26:43 EDT 2001
  
  Well said Swamiji :)
  
  
• From: KS (@ 166.44.247.235) on: Sun Jul 22 16:51:49 EDT 2001
  
  IMF,
  I meant SJ and SDB are better than RDB and LP (inspite of being aware that they belong to slightly different times):-)
  
  
• From: LV (@ 203.197.80.66) on: Mon Jul 23 03:48:19 EDT 2001
  
  swamiji:
  
  "LV says: Blah Blah Blah...Amonkar, Bhaskar, etc.. "
  
  Well, I mentioned these names because a few people were trashing Hindustani classical music.
  
  On the other hand, please try to find a single place where I have said anything that demeans Carnatic music, for which I have great reverence.
  
  
  A few people were acting stupid enough to say That Carnatic is deeper than HCM, or that HCM maestros need to take CCM training. So I mentioned a few names to see whether they really had taken such training.
  
  The same applies to people trying to trash Rafi (and that includes a respectable man like RajaG also!!!). Please show me a SINGLE place where I have tried to trash SPB.
  
  I even opposed IMF when he trashed SPB.!!!
  
  
  
• From: bm (@ spider-tr041.proxy.aol.com) on: Mon Jul 23 13:45:43 EDT 2001
  
  When is the admin closing this thread..?
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ hqprxsrf02.autodesk.com) on: Mon Jul 23 15:22:31 EDT 2001
  
  LV:
  WRONG THREAD, One-sided arguments, telling us "the other side is green", when you yourself have seen little of this side (as seen by SG is a genius), emphasis on names of persons rather than music itself - which usually is a result of "who is great" syndrome....all these reflect your lack of knowledge of South Indian music. Eventhough you repeat 1000 times "I never demeaned..", still your use of "BUT" for every thing you say about SI music takes away its credit.
  
  
  
• From: LV (@ 203.197.82.31) on: Tue Jul 24 00:24:45 EDT 2001
  
  well Swamiji:
  
  As for Shankar Ganesh, I have not come across songs they copied other than a few ghazal tunes.
  
  Their Kannada songs impress me a lot too. Thats why they are geniuses - I did NOT mean to bracket them alongwith MSV-TKR or IR.
  
  Also, what would u say to those who trash Rafi or Hindustani classical?
  
  
• From: rf (@ pppa88-resalerockford1-3r7238.dialinx.net) on: Tue Jul 24 00:36:43 EDT 2001
  
  SGanesh were geniuses in their own right. Their melodies were a class apart.
  
  
• From: LV (@ 203.197.82.176) on: Thu Jul 26 01:49:54 EDT 2001
  
  swamiji:
  
  I am of course awaiting ur "esteemed" reply.
  
  
• From: no..not swamiji (@ atlwebproxy2.core.hp.com) on: Thu Jul 26 02:45:29 EDT 2001
  
  AVM-Rajan is a genius. His action especially the azhugai kind impressed me a lot. Though he is not that of Sivaji, Gemini or MGR's calibre ;-)
  
  Aadithyan is a genius composer. Though he copied few songs i liked many of his films especially seevalapaeri pandi. So he is a genius :-))
  
  this is no way an "esteemed" message ;-)
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ hqprxsrf02.autodesk.com) on: Thu Jul 26 13:36:51 EDT 2001
  
  LV: You are a genius yourself when it comes to wasting others time. I have to meditate.
  Jai Sreeram!
  
  
• From: LV (@ 203.90.83.84) on: Mon Jul 30 03:16:51 EDT 2001
  
  Swamiji:
  
  Nice way to elude when u have no proper answers. Glory to u and ur "MEDITATION".
  I wonder how peoplwho meditate can be so alarmingly rigid!!! And impulsive!!
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ hqprxsrf02.autodesk.com) on: Mon Jul 30 13:50:29 EDT 2001
  
  You have to draw a tangent somewhere. If I had given an answer, you would have dragged me back into the circle of absurdity. I would rather meditate sorry man. Better spend time improving your skills than talk about it.
  
  

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