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ARR's interview in Hindu .....-Intresting Point

Topic started by MumbaiRamki (@ 63.186.8.168) on Sun Dec 12 18:45:07 EST 2004.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

http://www.hindu.com/mp/2004/12/13/stories/2004121300340100.htm

1.The 'Yuhi chaala ' song from swades was orginally composed for Lagaan .

2.Harris Jeyaraj worked with him only for 2 films !!

3.On today's music -
"What is today's Tamil film music all about? They are nothing more than fast numbers or remix downloaded. What took me weeks to make music for a "Gentleman" or "Rangeela" can be done today if you have a computer, software and then pre-set the rhythms and you have a disco number! Fast music is no big deal today as anyone can become a music director"

4.Rajiv Menon film in tamizh .

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: observer (@ 208.254.219.2) on: Tue Dec 14 11:48:13 EST 2004
  
  Dude:
  
  Sorry Dude, but my energy budget prevents me from doing what you ask. Please present me with something that assures me of your stake in the debate. Replying to several people at the same time, I can't afford to entertain mere passers-by.
  
  
• From: observer (@ 208.254.219.2) on: Tue Dec 14 11:51:18 EST 2004
  
  Piratheepan:
  
  "i said "acknowledged as worthy""
  
  "Turning" your words wasn't intentional. I assumed you meant "acknowledged" as opposed to "acknowledged as worthy" since the latter phrase makes no sense to me. Please point me to some statement that acknowledge you as unworthy. Or am I still misunderstanding you?
  
  
  
• From: observer (@ 208.254.219.2) on: Tue Dec 14 11:52:42 EST 2004
  
  "acknowledge you as unworthy"
  
  Read as "acknowledged you as unworthy."
  
  
• From: observer (@ 208.254.219.2) on: Tue Dec 14 11:55:41 EST 2004
  
  Piratheepan:
  
  "and im not shoving the point down ur throat i put it out there"
  
  Care to explain why when I type something here it's "shoving the point" but when you type something it's "putting it out there". What's the difference?
  
  
• From: vambu (@ 136.1.1.154) on: Tue Dec 14 11:58:26 EST 2004
  
  OK observer, this is a brief of my first Thamizh posting:
  
  -ARR has freedom of speech. We need to accept that and need not waste time dissecting his every statement when we have better job to do:-)
  
  -If someone believed that ARR was humble to begin but only now getting arrogant, it's their problem. No human is without ego in this world and those with money and fame are especially haughty (though some can act humble for a while). Why worry much about their humility status or what they tell about others?
  
  -While ARR has told others are mixing etc., he didn't claim exclusive rights to `original creativity'. Let's appreciate that:-)) And move on to more important things in life than dissecting his every utterance...
  
  Now my second one is in similar vain - earlier people used to bash IR (for his arrogance, his statements etc.) now ARR. This means MD's cannot have freedom of speech:-))
  
  
• From: Dude (@ 199.2.219.67) on: Tue Dec 14 12:06:56 EST 2004
  
  I believe you are an ARR basher, even though you pose to be otherwise. I am not going to abuse you, all I need is proof that you do realize and acknowledge ARR's talents and innovations in TFM. Then there will be any hope of continuing a discussion with you. Not once have you given us a reason to believe you.
  
  If you cant or dont want to convince me, you are just another ARR-basher as far as I am concerned. Let me leave the discussion at this point.
  
  As for the arpeggiator you mentioned HJ used, it is a mere technique, and NOT a trend, major or minor. We are discussing the trends created by different music directors.
  
  Even so, ARR finished composing the music for BOYS long before the movie actually got released. So you never know who actually used this technique first in TFM.
  
  
• From: observer (@ 208.254.219.2) on: Tue Dec 14 12:08:45 EST 2004
  
  Thanks Vambu for accomodating my handicap.
  
  "-ARR has freedom of speech. We need to accept that and need not waste time dissecting his every statement when we have better job to do:-)"
  
  Indeed he does, but just because you have the freedom of speech do you abuse your guests, or your friends? Freedom of speech is just the necessary, not the sufficient, condition for civilised society. Over and above that all of us need to cultivate many many levels of etiquette and good, noble behaviour to not only get along but to be considered accomplished individuals.
  
  "No human is without ego in this world and those with money and fame are especially haughty (though some can act humble for a while)."
  
  I largely agree with this. However I have never contended that ARR has become arrogant. Or even if he has, I'm not worried about it. What I AM concerned about his attacks on other composers and what that tells me about the limits that his compositional strategies are running into. This requires a long discussion, yet we haven't gotten to it because I'm still trying to establish that ARR IS indeed attacking other composers. So far, people here seem unwilling to accept this, and are claiming that I interpteted wrongly what I saw ARR say in his SUN interview.
  
  "And move on to more important things in life than dissecting his every utterance"
  
  I think you've stressed this a lot. I see that one man's obsession always looks like a waste of time to another. I've been in your shoes before, so I can only say that what he's saying more and more often now about other composers has a direct bearing on his music. Hence my interest.
  
  "This means MD's cannot have freedom of speech:"
  
  I already discussed this above.
  
  
• From: observer (@ 208.254.219.2) on: Tue Dec 14 12:10:43 EST 2004
  
  Dude:
  
  "I believe you are an ARR basher, even though you pose to be otherwise"
  
  Ok, Dude, you've convinced me. I'll deliver a list, give me some time to grab lunch.
  
  
• From: observer (@ 208.254.219.2) on: Tue Dec 14 12:16:53 EST 2004
  
  Dude:
  
  "I believe you are an ARR basher, even though you pose to be otherwise"
  
  Just one more thing as I go off to compose my list: I urge you to resist seeing this as an IR-vs-ARR thing. As long as you look at everything through that lens, you'll only see poses and antagonism. If you shed the lens for a moment, you'll see that the world looks wonderfully complex and exciting. It's unbelievably freeing.
  
  
• From: observer (@ 208.254.219.2) on: Tue Dec 14 12:22:52 EST 2004
  
  Sorry Vambu,
  
  Read "However I have never contended that ARR has become arrogant"
  
  as
  
  "However I have never CLAIMED that ARR has become arrogant"
  
  The word "contended" always gets me. Sorry.
  
  
• From: Dude (@ 199.2.219.67) on: Tue Dec 14 12:25:00 EST 2004
  
  Why do you always assume that some one is gonna make it a IR vs. ARR thing. In my past posts, have I given you a reason for you to believe so? In fact I have urged people not to do this (please read my earlier posts)
  
  You need to shed this tendency to suspect everyone who does not agree with you. Once you get rid of that shell of negativity around you and stop talking down to people, you will realize how much easier it is to get through your ideas to other people...
  
  
• From: observer (@ 208.254.219.2) on: Tue Dec 14 13:24:10 EST 2004
  
  Dude:
  
  "In my past posts, have I given you a reason for you to believe so?"
  
  Fair enough. Then let me change that to say that directed ARR-criticism is not comprehensive ARR-bashing. Have I given you reason to think I'm an ARR-basher when I've acknowledged his talent and his innovations in several of my posts?
  
  "Shell of negativity"? I'm surprised that my admissions of Rahman's talent, my concern for his future, not to mention my refusal to rise to the various insults directed at me so far are all being regarded as a shell of negativity.
  
  Reg. "talking down" I apologize if anything I said was condescending, it wasn't deliberate.
  
  
  
• From: ARR (@ 198.232.250.51) on: Tue Dec 14 13:34:29 EST 2004
  
  Observer,
  
  Here is a hint. You will be labled as an ARR basher, if you don't subscribe to any of the following ..
  
  ARR is a renowned international composer working on many international assignments ...
  
  ARR's albums are selling in millions.
  
  All directors in India and abroad first approach ARR and move on to others only after he rejects them ...
  
  ARR is being paid hundreds of crores ..
  
  People never listened to music before the advent of ARR ...
  
  His fart sounds musical opera ...
  
  His sweat smells rose ...
  
  etc..etc..etc
  
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 68.16.25.50) on: Tue Dec 14 13:39:04 EST 2004
  
  Observer, OK here we go, I have some more time to kill:
  
  "I'm afraid I'll have to reply in your fashion: show me proof. Once again you're relying on indirect indicators of merit. If you look at his sales at the boxofficeindia.com, all his past few releases have been outsold by people by Himesh, NS, Anu. Even if he retains a slim remunerative lead at this point, the question is for how long? "
  When I find more time I'll ferret out links for you, but recently in a Tamil magazine (few months back) when the remuneration of several MDs was listed ARR was earning in crores and others were in the lakhs range. Gap might have narrowed, but I have a solid feeling that he is still the leader.
  
  As for how long he retains that lead, let time tell, you dont have to write him off in haste yet.
  
  "I'm talking about current ongoing assignments. Why rest on past laurels? All BD led to was LOTR, where he's already been relegated to 25%. As for WOHE it led to precisely nothing, whether in Chinese cinema or in Hollywood. "
  
  Past laurels?!! Whatever I have listed happened less than a year back. What those projects lead to is not the question. He is obviously being considered as top composer in India for now atleast by Western sources and that explains why he and not YSR or Ismail Durbar was invited to compose for those films. Even IR's first symphony lead to nothing but you cant write that off as some sort of non-accomplishment.
  
  "Let's just differ on this then, you regard them as reputed, and therefore as proof of ARR's rock-solid position. I see them as insufficient in stemming the flood of competitive and hungry talent that's taking over the charts. "
  
  The so called "hungry talent" is making use of the intermittent vacuum created by the trendsetter who is presently involved in bigger things which he is doing at his own will and pace, nothing more. Its not as if Rahman was pushed out or passed over for these MDs.
  
  "Sarcasm eh Vijay? How appealing. "
  
  I am glad you got it :-)
  
  "Ever since the emergence of ARR fans of older styles of composition, IR-fans in the South, and fans of Burman/Rafi or whatever in the North have opposed Rahman strongly. According to them whatever is new in Rahman is copied from foreign sources, whatever is old is copied from older Indian composers. Others regard it as nothing but a lot of noise with fast beats. In short, they've not seen anything NEW or revolutionary in Rahman's music."
  
  And "they" are a minority here. Otherwise, Rangeela wouldnt have been a super-deuper hit nor would Rahman have bagged the opportunity to do something like Lagaan and other big blockbuster movies these past few years both in TFM and HFM. So I dont really know what new story you are trying to spin here.
  
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 68.16.25.50) on: Tue Dec 14 13:39:26 EST 2004
  
  "What's amusing to me is that a lot of ARR-fans make the exact same criticisms about HJ, Dhina and the rest. To them HJ/VSR/YSR are copying from ARR/IR/foreign source, or else they're just noise with fast beats. In both cases the level of smugness, and self-righteousness is obnoxiously high. I believe both are wrong.
  
  ARR did bring something new in. So are HJ/VS/YSR and Vishal-Shekhar(Musafir) or Amar Mohile(Naach) and so on."
  
  The difference is that ARR brought and continues to bring in a LOT more new to the table than these composers. If you want to talk just music, without bringing the commercial aspects into it, I can do so quite comfortably.
  
  "Those looking for One Big Trend are mistaken, I believe. The era of that is gone and won't be back for a long time. The One Big Trend is the onset of Many Medium Trends, the proliferation of available choices, and consequently a fragmentation of the composing/listening scenes. "
  
  All what you have listed above existed even in the mid-90s. Deva/IR/Vidyasagar/Sirpi etc. did 85% of the movies in the mid-90s and Rahman did only about 6 or 7 films/year out of 100 or so. So whats different now? The difference is Rahman has even further lessened his load in TFM and in that process probably lost out on a big movie or two while he attempted to cover a wider audience.
  
  You are talking only about one small sector of Rahman's target audience. Name ONE MD who has successfully surged into ALL sectors in the last 2 years. None. No one is equally popular in Mumbai and Chennai as Rahman is. No one knows about YSR or HJ in Mumbai. No one cares for Madan Mohan or Ismail Durbar in Chennai. But Rahman is a name that still sells in both places.
  
  "'ll start with how HJ innovated in Uyirin Uyire, where ARR was behind the curve. HJ used arpeggiators for the first time in TFM in that song. ARR used it later, to an extent in Sa Re Ga from Boys, then in Hey Goodbye Nanba from AE. When the music reviewer from The Hindu claimed that ARR had copied HJ, ARR-fans were apoplectic with rage. Even if ARR had not copied HJ, he was certainly caught looking very uncool there for a moment. I say this despite the fact that I consider Boys to be his most advanced album till date, and AE to be very close behind.
  
  Now give me one point why HJ is NO different from ARR, and let me contest that. Don't point to some similar interludes and the like. Some of ARR's interludes also resemble interludes from IR and MSV etc. Tell me why HJ has brought NOTHING to the table."
  
  the difference is these guys try hard bring something new to the table one out of every 5 albums when Rahman does it almost every other album. Like I said if you want to discuss just music your case would get a lot weaker quite soon, for I can list several things that have been attempted new by Rahman in his last few albums vs none by YSR or HJ. However, I'll summarize by saying that these guys havent brought any individuality or any characteristic styles to the table. You can still classify songs as IRish or ARRish. But it would be a miracle if you hear someone classifying a song as HJish or YSRish :-)
  
  I am not writing HJ off completely, I hear good things about Anniyan. But based on what these guys have brought so far to the table, I can say its just about a fraction of ARR has brought about in just his last 4 or 5 albums in HFM/TFM
  
  
  

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